Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Breaking Free from the Herd: An Exploration of Individuality in a Connected World
Ever wonder if you're just a sheep following the herd? Prepare to have your mind expanded as we dive into this paradox. Get ready to question everything you thought you knew about group thinking and individuality - in an era when we're all connected through social media, it's tough to distinguish where the influence of the crowd ends and our own individuality begins. We'll be unpacking the intricacies of peer pressure, mob mentality, and the curious ways social media can sweep us along with the tide without us even noticing.
But that's not all. In the second act of our chat, we'll be traversing the intriguing landscape of memories and their potent role in molding our personalities. Have you ever wondered where the insatiable need for validation and acceptance originates? Or how our defining moments can become catalysts for personal growth? Brace yourselves as we shine a light on the emotional impact on memory creation and the modern influence of social media in this process. This episode is more than just a conversation; it’s an invitation to reflect on our experiences and to consider how they can be harnessed for self-improvement. So, are you ready to take a leap from the herd and plunge into the depths of individuality and self-analysis? Let the exploration begin!
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Azwan and Lord Knight. Today's topic is group thinking versus individuality.
Speaker 2:How do you describe group think compared to individual thinking? You know, I guess this is that question of do you go along with the crowd just because? Are you agreeing with us right now, just because you're listening to us?
Speaker 1:Right, that's kind of what I'm thinking. It's group thinking is, it's that whole. I guess in some ways it's kind of like peer pressure.
Speaker 2:True, but now here's a question for you. You also have the mob mentality, where the mob suddenly starts to behave a certain way because one person did Kind of like standing in a line because the person in front of you move, you move Right. you don't really think about it.
Speaker 1:There's a story you like to tell that's related to that and it's. You've seen it happen. We've all seen it happen at some point. You've got a large group of people going down the street.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:One person up front makes a right hand turn.
Speaker 2:So everybody else turns.
Speaker 1:Everybody else is going to follow along with them, because they think that's where they're supposed to go.
Speaker 2:Right, it's the whole pride. Well, any parade march, you're literally there's one, there's a parade master, you're following them, and then there are some of these things. there are some of these marches, especially when it's political, and they're doing it for people from other groups will try to get up front to take that lead position and sort of gotten people down different roads. that you're not supposed. to My understanding, this actually happened during Occupied Wall Street.
Speaker 1:I believe it did yeah.
Speaker 2:There was another group protesting something. People from the Wall Street protest, whatever, the bank protest literally got in front of this group and took them to the same place, right, but that's not where they were marching to. I mean, come on, think about it like when you're going to places like the Renaissance Fair, right Before it opens, everybody sort of gathers up front. There's no line, there's no real here, whatever. There might be some people forming in a line to first get in, but nobody moves until, like, that first person moves Right. I've seen them open the doors and nobody come near them until they can get that first person to move. Right, you know, but again you also see the same thing Again. Another example of group think is think Black Fridays.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:People think a store is open or something and then everybody starts to search forward. Right, this is group think.
Speaker 1:We all do this, so it's like a herd mentality.
Speaker 2:Right, And actually I think that's what it's left over from when we were more before the dream time, when we were more animal than we were human.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:You know that is a leftover from me. You know you see the same behavior, slightly unlike pack animals on the hunt and prowl and stuff like that. But again you start to see this behavior of individual thing too. And like a wolf pack, They can all run together, they can all hunt together, but as soon as they get to the point of making the kill, it's like each of the wolves suddenly go into more of a individual thing.
Speaker 2:They strike when they think they're ready, not when their leader says So how do we shut that off? How do we stop ourselves from doing that group thing where we could actually be led to our demise so easily, you know, like the sheep of the edge or the full?
Speaker 1:I don't know, can we shut that off?
Speaker 2:Well, it seems like it, I mean is it a? lack of questioning. Well, why? Why am I following this person? Why do I think this person is leading us somewhere?
Speaker 1:Why am I doing this particular behavior?
Speaker 2:Right, but when do we shut it off? When do we actually activate it? Because we've all been in those. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that's what I'm wondering Can we really shut it off? I mean, I think at some point it just gets activated. We might can shut it off afterwards.
Speaker 2:Well see, now here's the question Is this a learned behavior or is this a biological behavior?
Speaker 1:Well, I think in some ways it's both. I think it's kind of an innate behavior that we have, but I think over the years that innate part is less than what we've learned.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of things that we do on a daily basis and don't think about it, right. Certain things we can control, certain things we don't. Hey, like we cannot control our heart. Well, well, hahahahaha, with enough meditation and stuff, you can learn how to calm your heart down, and stuff like this yes, right. But you can stop your breathing, but you don't think about breathing when you're doing it on a moment-to-moment basis.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like blinking your eyes. You don't think. Well, you probably aren't right now, because it, said it, but you don't think about blinking your eyes. It just happens, Right. So again is this one of those behaviors that, like you said, yeah, we could stop it if we wanted to, but it might take us a little while to realize what we're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but no, in some cases I think it is a learned behavior, But, like I said before, i think it's like the blinking of the eyes, it's just, it's something that happens.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We can control it at some point.
Speaker 2:but To some extent.
Speaker 1:Right. So I think it's something that we can turn off afterwards, but I don't think it's something we can just, like a light switch, turn it on and off.
Speaker 2:Okay, but that doesn't explain riots, mobs, lynchings And the reason I mentioned these, even though they're, i'm not mentioning them because they're horrific. I mentioned them because they require more actions than just walking into a theater. Right? Or being guided down a road.
Speaker 2:You see what I'm saying. There's a little bit different there, but I see the same behavior, even in higher cognitive things going on there. I mean, i'm sorry, when you're lynching somebody and you're stringing them up, you have to think, oh, we got to get a rope, oh, we have to tie this specific type of knot Do? you see what I'm saying. There's a lot more thought that we require individual thought over a group Think like we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, but if you're doing something like that, I hate to be this way. You've already planned all that shit out. You already got that rope tied.
Speaker 2:Let's refer back, because I know some people.
Speaker 1:That's not a spontaneous thing.
Speaker 2:But well, let's think about it like this Remember that we mentioned in that show, oh, 1880. 1883. 83 or something, where at the beginning of the show a guy's was a pickpocketing, a kid yells pickpocket And the next thing you know that guy's like being strung up in the whole towns on it. True, this is group thing, this is mob mentality, right? So again, does mob mentality release us from responsibility of our actions? No, but yet when you're doing it, you're thinking as a group, right? If the resident of the people wouldn't do it, you wouldn't do it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's not necessarily true. But if you let yourself, you still have to be responsible because you're letting yourself get swept up in those emotions, into that whole riot mob mentality. You've allowed yourself to be in that situation.
Speaker 2:Okay, they did an experiment, all right, and once they put a part, they put, they got people to sit into a room and do some paperwork And these people were getting paid for it. Well, what they did was they faked a fire As long as the person was alone. The majority of the times the person would get up, fill the door, try to call for help. Do everything that you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Then they did the experiment again, but then they put a group of people in there, like three or four people, right. What wound up happening was nobody would do anything.
Speaker 2:They just sat there and kept on doing the work because, nobody wanted to break that confines of what the world was going on. Nobody wanted to stand out, nobody wanted to be different, nobody. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, so can we really break out of it? Huh, i like to believe that some people can and some people can't. I think it really does depend on the person and their personality to some extent.
Speaker 1:Right. More outgoing people are more likely to break away from that than, say, an introvert.
Speaker 2:Right, all right. So I think that the more outgoing person won't behave like an introvert and go with the group.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Do you see what I'm saying? So again, is it something we can really break out of? Is peer pressure really that important to us?
Speaker 1:Well, i don't think it's that important, i just think it's that powerful.
Speaker 2:Well, again, that makes me think there's something in eight, inside of us, that's more biological, that wants acceptance from other people. If we act like everybody else, will be accepted like everybody else.
Speaker 1:Well, there's. that Yes.
Speaker 2:So I'm not sure Because, again, like I said, i've seen group think and I've seen individual things. I've seen the person where they finally can, that it does happen. There's a person that does get up and suddenly go No, no, no, this is wrong, stop. They do occur.
Speaker 1:Right. But even then that person doesn't necessarily have enough sway or influence to change the outcome of that situation. But the fact is that they broke away from that whole mob mentality.
Speaker 2:What? So it is possible, right, it is possible. Now, the real question is is what gives certain people the ability to do this? What kind of thinking, what kind of processing going on there, because a lot of us would like to sit? I would love to sit here, go, oh no, no, no, that wouldn't be me, but I can't say that.
Speaker 1:No, because it very well could be.
Speaker 2:It very well could be. You know I've done jobs. I've ran a department of 104 people. Trust me, group think can sometimes be an advantage to you when you're trying to get a task accomplished.
Speaker 1:Sure it can Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, but other times it's kind of like you can't think for yourself. You don't need me to figure out problems.
Speaker 1:Well, i think. I think there's a couple of things. One, i think it's it does seem to be the more extroverted people, those are, who are more outgoing Right. They seem to have that ability to be able to think more for themselves, and I don't know if that's the right way to put it.
Speaker 2:But or is it that their moral standards is to a point to where, no, this is not right. I have to stop it, because this isn't the way we should be behaving.
Speaker 1:Well see, i think that plays an important part too, because that's kind of where I was going. I don't think that just because you're more outgoing, that's the only thing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Even introverts, even those who are the quote unquote shy, people have morals and ethics. Right And that has been enough for those type of people to stand up and do something.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Outside of the whole herd mob riot mentality.
Speaker 2:And again, this sort of sort of brings me to mind of the whole entire thing where we were asking which would you rather have? Would you rather have somebody look at you and show you respect because they respect you as an individual, or because you're holding some threat over them that they're going to get in trouble if they don't treat you this way?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, i think if you're, if you're doing the threat, then you're not getting. you're not getting actual respect.
Speaker 2:No, no. but again, our mindset there is to why does it seem like we have to have, or want to force people into approving of us? Our own self worth isn't enough.
Speaker 1:Right. In other words, if we don't, we don't believe enough in ourselves.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And that's pretty much what's causing us to reach out for that acceptance from our peers.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean we're not talking about the whole so-called smart thing, that most smart people don't say anything because they're questioning what they know to begin with. You know, they're smart enough to know what they don't know and then question themselves on it. so they just keep quiet, right, because we won't accept it. So, like I said, i'd like to know what in the world it is that gives that certain people that ability to go. no, that is wrong. Don't do that.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm sure there's been a study somewhere. Maybe we'll have to look that up and post a link to it.
Speaker 2:Because part of me also wants to think that this is also part of that whole entire where they do a survey of people driving about the driving and everybody rates yourself slightly above Right. But the truth of the matter is everybody's average, right? That's like me. I'm an average priest. I'm nothing You know, right? I'm not no multi-generational, i'm just your average little priest. I'm just an average little priest, witch priest, whatever. And why is that so hard for us to accept?
Speaker 1:See, i don't know. I mean I don't. I think it's because we all I think a lot of us are avertivers. If we don't put forth the confidence that we are the better person quote-unquote better person, then we feel like we have failed ourselves.
Speaker 2:But somebody has to be average. Well, sure, all right. I mean Again, it's the whole entire thing of if you go around and call on everybody special, nobody's actually special.
Speaker 1:Right then to it's not that We're not good at something. Everybody's good at something. Somebody can be better than average at something, at something, but there's nothing wrong with just being average. But I don't. I don't know where that whole mentality comes from that we feel like we have. We can't just be average.
Speaker 2:Well, again, and I don't know where it comes from for some reason in my mind, this all leads back to having people to accept us. Okay, do you see what I'm saying? that all these behaviors are really nothing more than I have to be Verified or get someone. I need someone else's approval for for me to be me. It seems what all this Comes down to.
Speaker 1:But so the question is this where does that come from?
Speaker 2:doubt Not actually believing in what in the world you can actually do.
Speaker 1:You know self-confidence self-confidence.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm sure it all comes from. You know a big lot of self doubt.
Speaker 1:So it's a validation issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We can't self validate what we do. Therefore, we have to have validation from other people, from other don't have that validation, then We're not that right. We're not as good as we think.
Speaker 2:Okay, do you see what I'm saying. This is where in my head and again I could be wrong. I Keep on seeing the same pattern and all seems to come down to Humanity, or humans Overall, won't to be accepted by those around them. It's an innate part of our personality, of our driving force. I think it's a very basic emotion that we have to fulfill.
Speaker 1:Do you think that social media is playing a big role in that?
Speaker 2:now, in this day and age where Everything, everybody's out for that, like everybody's out for that subscriber, everybody's out for I think Social media is taking advantage of that, because it is just again, it's one of them things that we do is. I don't think it's necessarily something we can completely control. Okay nobody died from holding their breath.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what I mean your, your body.
Speaker 2:We've all done it as kids in the whole nine years. No parents ever worried about this because we already know your body will not let you do this to yourself, right? Yes, just going. Oh right, you know I'm not talking about the ones that anyway. Does that make sense? so I don't think it's anything that anybody can 100% escape. I Think we will all fall into it at some point. I don't think there's any one person out there that would never fall for it. Does that make sense, that's?
Speaker 1:right, but we do have the ability to analyze the situation and Break free of it and right.
Speaker 2:Because I've seen where in the world it does happen up into higher forms. There you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:This group, Let's talk about higher emotions create better memories.
Speaker 2:I Was taught this lesson by Lord man when I was learning how to cast circle. Okay, basically, he got me all riled up, i was pretty pissed off and And then he told me to do it won't do my quarter calls one more time and I actually got them all right and Yeah okay that point I actually did start to memorize that eat more easier. It doesn't have to be a bad emotion, it doesn't have to be anger per se. The idea there is, the higher the emotional level mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:The greater the memory in print in the brain. All right, why They're defining moments in our lives? I guess They actually define who we are, our personalities, how we handled it, what in the world was going on at the time.
Speaker 1:Okay so.
Speaker 2:I don't think so. I think it's something we can manipulate to our advantage. If you get yourself away if you could heighten your emotions while studying I don't know quantum mechanics or Philosophy, or pick your most boring the subject right. Mm-hmm. But if you could get a more higher emotion there, the likelihood is you'll remember the information better.
Speaker 1:Okay, but you're saying if you can, if you can, so Is it? is it feasible that we can do this? Well, we do it. How might? how might we go about doing that?
Speaker 2:Well, we do it with magic all the time. Well, sure, yeah, we Tap into something that will just like actors do you and they want to cry. They tap into something that, or they do at flashing memory through their minds of something that made them really, really sad. Right, We're talking the same concept here. So, yes, it is something we, you, can control. You can learn how to control.
Speaker 1:Okay, i'm just trying to figure out how, how this could benefit. What do you mean? Well, what might be some examples of Of? well, what might be some examples of creating better memories?
Speaker 2:Well, it depends on do you want to pass the test? You know, i have a lot of people.
Speaker 2:I have told people for a lot, for a number of years, that when you study something And you're especially if you're gonna be like quizzed on it at some point, so you're gonna be in school The best bet is to study. And then, when you go to your meditation, go back over the information while you're in a meditative state, because you're more connected with your subconscious at this point. Well, that's where our emotions come from our subconscious. True, when we're in higher states of emotions, our subconscious is more active, so we will have a better memory of it, because this is where we store all this stuff. I, with your job, y'all normally do those morning meetings, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we have a department in Huddle, if you will Huddle, yeah, huddle okay, huddle, all right.
Speaker 2:And how often do you? actually remember that crap. Besides, are we getting raises?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not very often.
Speaker 2:Because you're sitting there and you're like ugh, so you don't remember them Being the supervisor and having to get this and you know working with housekeepers and stuff like this. You know how many of these housekeepers will come up to you later and go. Hey, you know, in the morning meeting you made something about this, or blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:You know, I got a question. Well, i didn't ask during the morning meeting. I didn't even realize you were talking, right? So, again, our emotional state seems to be directly related to how well we remember something. Now, for all that said and done, why do we seem to have a hard problem with people remembering what they look like or picking people out of a lineup? who's been attacked by somebody?
Speaker 1:Well, i think in something like that, it's such a traumatic event that the brain's trying to block that information out, maybe. But is there a way that we can tap into that and use that to help us remember those details.
Speaker 2:So you're sitting there saying that maybe sometimes that the emotions can be so overwhelming that we just don't remember it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we either don't remember or it kind of blurs together Because the subconscious is over stimulated at some point. Right, it's trying to calm down that.
Speaker 2:The reason why, in the world, someone who goes into what do they call it the blind rage, and they don't remember what they did. Mm-hmm, that Berserker state, yeah, the Berserker state, which makes you wonder. You know, i have to ask this question on the Berserkers. All right, not that I want to grasp, but how did they control them? I'm serious, you got a guy going out there freaking nuts. Mm-hmm, i'm not going to be his comrade in arms.
Speaker 1:All right, i want to be standing on the field somewhere else. Yeah, I'm going to be far away.
Speaker 2:So I wonder how do they keep these Berserkers from attacking their own? in battle.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:You got to remember back in these days it wasn't like one side wore one color and the other side wore the different.
Speaker 1:Like the red coats. Little American history there.
Speaker 2:They did not color coordinate this, all right. No, there was not some gay guy going right, going Oh girls, we can't be having this No. We can't tell what the world's going on.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't right. I mean, it wasn't, like you know, in American history the North and the South when in the Civil War there were two different colors, you could tell who was who.
Speaker 2:Well, well, i hate to be this way, but even then there seems to there probably was a point to where in the world there wasn't always enough uniforms.
Speaker 1:Oh sure Yeah, Unless they were under that.
Speaker 2:You know again if they were inside your regiment. You know, i mean it's like nowadays all armies across the world do that whole camouflage thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, this isn't a big military secret thing here. All right, right, how much friendly fire happens on this?
Speaker 1:I'm sure quite a bit. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetimepleseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube and Reddit. Thank you.
