Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Exploring the Power of Thought Forms and the Nature vs. Nurture Debate
Curious about the power of your own mind and the influence you have over your reality? Prepare to have your mind stretched as we delve into the fascinating world of Thought Forms. We'll introduce you to home guardian Thought Forms, reveal how you can infuse it with purpose, and give basic guidance on how to keep it energized.
Brace yourself as we venture further - tackling the age-old debate of nature vs nurture. We'll dissect human behaviors, tap into our basic instincts, and question if our emotions are a product of upbringing or intrinsic to our being. As we unpack the impact of cultural norms and parental influence on shaping behavior, we'll also explore our boundaries in understanding another's perception - and the possibility of technology breaking those barriers. Buckle up for an episode charged with insights that challenge perception and unmask the power of intention.
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, azwan and Lord Knight. So let's talk about Thought Forms. What about Thought Forms? What are they?
Speaker 2:Thought Forms are literally thoughts. They're ideas that we give form to. Okay. I mean literally. That's what you're doing. Is you're trying to come up with a primal thought like protect guard, be on edge.
Speaker 1:Are these kind of like servitors, or is that something different?
Speaker 2:Those are actually beans that, for a lack of a better word, or like maybe proto-sills that we can bring over here to do your bidding. But normally this is more like an exchange of I give you something, you do something for me. Okay. It's more like a business venture.
Speaker 1:All right, so Thought Forms are created.
Speaker 2:Right Thought Forms. Think of Thought Forms as an extension of yourself.
Speaker 1:Okay, so say, like I wanted to do, a home guardian. That would be a Thought Form.
Speaker 2:Right, because, again, not a servitor, not a servitor. Think about it this way Thought Forms are more like robots. They're programmed energy to do one specific thing. Now don't get me wrong over time and for as much belief and energy you put in there, they can develop a little bit more like a personality.
Speaker 1:Okay, but again, that's still pretty much an extension of the creator.
Speaker 2:Right. So sometimes they tend to have like parts of your personality but might be a little bit more dialed up. Okay. Sort of like, if you're a practical joker, they might be a practical joker, but turned up to the ump thing to the degree. Alright. You're with me on that.
Speaker 1:Right. So it would be kind of like a home guardian that we had well, we still have, but was in the possession of one of our Coven members, yeah, and our home guardian decided to play some jokes on him and actually scared the piss out of him instead. Right, yeah, okay, right, and he was like I'm not even closing the window.
Speaker 2:You know the fact that. You know I would love practical jokes that like that myself has nothing to do with this whatsoever.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:But again there's sort of program with the whole entire thing of one mission, one goal. Okay. Alright, sort of what your world's concentrating Now again, what we'll sit there and tell you to do is to pick a statue. It doesn't matter what the world the statue is, it's just something you need to perceive as protection. Right.
Speaker 1:So, something you can relate to.
Speaker 2:Right, it's like some people will go out and get a statue of a dog or a you know or something else vicious. Right. And again, the whole entire time you're putting in there, you're just thinking, okay, you are here to patrol your domain and keep it in mind, your domain, when you're creating this. You're with me, yeah, so it's whatever.
Speaker 1:So I mean like we've got a pretty good stretch of backyard here.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We would have to include that if we wanted that area patrolled, or we could just specifically state that the domain is the house in the immediate area right around the house.
Speaker 2:Right, it's what you've got to concentrate on. The other thing you've got to concentrate on is what do you want it to do? If you want protection or something like that, you sort of got to see them in your mind doing that activity. Okay, what activity or? Whatever it deems as protection or whatever you redeem as protection if you wanted to continuously walk around your house like a soldier. That's what you should be imagining it doing as you're creating it.
Speaker 1:Okay, what if you want to kind of just give it free reign?
Speaker 2:Like, if you wanted to imagine it being more like a dog, behaving more like a dog to where it protects a certain area yeah that works.
Speaker 1:Okay, but I'm saying like, instead of like marching or patrolling in that sense, around your perimeter or the interior, if you want it to just kind of like be do whatever, again, you imagine it to do exactly what it is you want it to do. But how can you imagine it being free reign? Do you imagine it doing all these activities like marching, running?
Speaker 2:running, walking, walking. How in the world do you expect it to guard your house?
Speaker 1:Okay, so you, you pretty much have to tell it everything. You have to tell it how to act, what to do, when to do it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so when does it take on quote, unquote, a mind of its own?
Speaker 2:It sort of does that over time because you got to remember. Part of the thing on this is these things require recharging.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright, there are certain points throughout the year using certain sabbats and stuff like that, the more at the time To where in the world you're gonna pull it down and give it a little extra boost of energy.
Speaker 1:Can we discuss which sabbats?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Then which? Then then how do you know I mean, how do you know when to recharge it?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, normally you're gonna do it like in the spring time when you're doing the spring cleaning. Anyway, okay, you're with me.
Speaker 1:Right, so you just take.
Speaker 2:You take whatever totem you've got and take it to your all term and replenish the right, just reimagining what it's doing and the whole not reinforcing what the world you did before. Okay. You're doing the exact same spells. So if you imagine it, you know so, you know patrolling your property and whatever, then that's what the world you sit there and do again.
Speaker 1:Alright, now say, say it didn't quite work out the first time and you wanted to make some changes. Would this be the time to make those changes?
Speaker 2:That would probably be the best time to do this. Now, don't get me wrong. The ones we typically create, they normally survive off that agrarian field. Well, yeah, created when we do ritual, right? So we don't typically recharge ours if we're doing ritual in our home.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, you with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that makes sense because it's feeding off of that energy.
Speaker 2:It's feeding off that energy, which is our energy, but it's also ritual energy. It's well, and one of the other things that help us when you first make these things is you're gonna have to give it a name and you're gonna have to talk to it. Right.
Speaker 2:When you're leaving the house, telling that by name hey, watch the house the whole night in York. I mean like our dog. Our dog hates me because every time I leave them. Hey, that's such as in charge and he's not Right. You're telling the dog. You're telling the. I'm telling the dog that the house guardians in charge.
Speaker 1:Right, which I'm sure he doesn't like, but he'll get over.
Speaker 2:But I mean, but over time they they typically do start to become more independent over time, and that's the main thing Time for these to start acting. I mean again, no matter what in the world they do, they're still going to follow their base program, right? So they're sort of like bots in electronics. When we're talking about bots out on the net, they're, they're programmed to do exactly what we tell them to do, right? But they are extensions of ourselves somewhat, right? You know, most house guardians that's it there and tell you hey, this is a fun little ritual for the whole family to do.
Speaker 1:You can get everybody involved in there Right, so that guardians got everybody's energy.
Speaker 2:Everybody's energy.
Speaker 1:Everybody's personality.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Got a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is kind of amalgamation of your whole, entire family.
Speaker 1:All right. So now our house guardians just like a willy-milly thing, or is there an indication that you need a house guardian, or that you need a thought form, or what I'm?
Speaker 2:going to put it to you this way If you were doing ritual at home, you need a house guardian. Okay, again, we've already talked about this If you're doing ritual at home, if you're doing your full moons and you're for doing your Sabbath, you are collecting up that agrarian field, this agrarian field. Again, all witches protect their agrarian field like. Right. You know I don't know how to explain that it is something we all want to protect and to keep private. Right.
Speaker 2:Because it is our energy, it is a very pure form of us. So it's not like you just want anything there, and I'm going to tell you that because, again, if you're not putting up barriers and stuff in your house and stuff like this which we've talked about before, right, even with those, a house guardian helps gasping.
Speaker 1:You mean even without the barriers?
Speaker 2:Even with the barriers and out the barriers, house guardians help.
Speaker 1:Okay, because yeah, I mean we talked about that briefly before that without the barriers, your shit's gonna leak out into your neighbor's property and freak them out and God knows how long far it's gonna go.
Speaker 2:And then you're not sure what beans you're allowing to suck off that energy.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:So again, you need a house guardian. There Again, you can still imagine this house guardian being more like a bouncer. Okay. You know, acting in the same way and stuff like that. This is what, in the words, you're looking for. And yes, we do name them. They have names. We treat them just like we do cats or dogs or pets, except for when we leave. We literally call out their names as they watch the house on, on yours. And walk out. This does not replace locking your doors. Have an alarm system. Right.
Speaker 2:Means to defend yourself if case you have to.
Speaker 1:No one instance. I mean we've we've had our house guardian for quite a few years. Okay.
Speaker 1:For a lot of years and there was a time, just to give everybody an instance of kind of how this works, in case they don't know, your sister lived with us for a while, right, and she brought in a guy that she was dating and granted, we didn't really have room for everybody there, but we made do. And we came in one day and he was on the couch In a fetal position and he was looking back and forth talking about something being in the house. And you're kind of looking at him like, okay, what'd you do? He's like I didn't do nothing, I was watching.
Speaker 1:You know, I was watching dishes and felt like something was watching me and it felt so tight Me tapped me on the shoulder and we were like, okay, but we knew because money had gone, missing out of our chain store. Right. And that just proved it to us, because our guardian you were doing something you weren't supposed to do. Right, you got creeped out. Right, the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Needless to say, he left and it can come back to our house anymore.
Speaker 2:Funny how that is. All right Again, you're right. This is how this really does work. Yes, those people get this funny feeling like they're being watched, creeped out feeling, and then suddenly they're like I got to go. Right. Then they like, then they tend not to come back.
Speaker 1:So no, it doesn't replace home security of any kind, like locking your doors and your windows and taking standard precautions for wherever you live. It doesn't replace that, but it sure does help.
Speaker 2:It does. But again, you know you also got to remember, you know, stealing things off of people's doors and stuff like that and always necessarily a good idea.
Speaker 1:No Once we've had that happen to.
Speaker 2:Thought forms can be created for a myriad of things. There was even an idea about creating a thought form just to carry out spells.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they don't have to be strictly for protection or for guardianship or anything like that. It can be for some type of service.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Other than those mentioned.
Speaker 2:Right. So it doesn't necessarily have to be protection. They tend to be. Majority of people have a house guardian, and this is what they're talking about. As far as the thought form, the thought forms can also be created to retrieve info. Okay.
Speaker 2:And again, that's their whole entire job. You tell them to find out something. They make sure that that information falls into your life, you know again you still have to keep them charged and pay attention to them. That can be dangerous Again again you got to remember you have to treat these like pets. They require care and talking to just like anything else. So you can't just like always make one and just shove it on a shelf and forget about it yeah. Two years later go.
Speaker 1:Oh, I forgot all about that and expected to still be there and expected to still be that you have to maintain that connection.
Speaker 2:The majority of the times when we tell people to do this, we tell them to always place a statue, especially if it's the house guardian by the front door.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somewhere you'll see it every day.
Speaker 2:That way you'll remember to say tell it to watch the house when you're leaving and say hello to it when you first get there. And again, having everybody else in the house do the same thing seems to help reinforce this idea.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I mean for the longest time ours was housed in a in wind chimes that hung on the front porch or the back porch, where, whatever you consider, the main door of the house was. Mm, hmm. He always hung outside there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, as you walked out the door, you always saw them, no matter what.
Speaker 1:And you could literally see him change positions. One day he might be facing east, one day he might be facing west and you'd be like oh, okay, what's going on? So you know it happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think that's about it.
Speaker 1:All right. So on another topic, let's talk about nature. Nature versus nurture.
Speaker 2:This was put in there because I've heard this a lot. Mm, hmm. What behaviors are nature? What behaviors are nurture? A lot of people want to sit there and go like, well, a woman is somebody who wears makeups and a dress, and but those are not to me, are not nature. Mmm, hmm, mm, hmm. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:Right, because we also know plenty of women who don't wear makeup.
Speaker 2:Don't wear dresses. And again, when we think about tribal days and when we go back in time, this was not a normal behavior. Okay, do you see what I'm saying? But yet they want to say certain things are feminine behavior and some things are masculine behaviors. My question is which is real? What is truly? What part of our personality is actual nature?
Speaker 1:How do we determine that?
Speaker 2:Well, see, this has got me wondering when I started to think about this. Is kids have been accidentally raised feral? There was some girls who were raised by wolves. Okay. All right. Or a girl that was raised by wolves. This is the whole entire raised by apes in the whole nine yards. This has happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on rare occasions.
Speaker 2:On rare occasions, all right. So that means that these kids that went through this would only seem to display nature. Behavior versus nurture.
Speaker 1:Okay, so is it nature? Because it's natural for the wolves or the apes or whatever. Or is it nature, because it's natural for them in that environment.
Speaker 2:Well see now there's the interesting. But is that nurture Well, or is it because they're learning from certain dog behaviors, right, you know, like? I saw a kid on TV, on YouTube, the other day, where they were showing them being raised by a round a bunch of other dogs. And the baby was going around with things in its mouth, carrying it like a dog would. Right. Instead of using his hands, because it freed up his hands to, kind of, because he was still learning how to walk.
Speaker 1:What is that? Is that nature or nurture? I see that as nurture because it's learning from its environment.
Speaker 2:Well, again, when you're dealing with something like humans, what behaviors do we learn?
Speaker 1:Okay, and this seems like an infinite question that's never going to be answered.
Speaker 2:It seems like it. So, when we actually think about this, what are our basic instincts?
Speaker 1:Survival.
Speaker 2:Survival reproduction. Right. You know, are we exactly like in the world. They try to tell us where men and women really aren't supposed to be monogamous, because I've heard that monogamy is a learned behavior, not a natural thing, and that the natural thing for all guys is to well, try to spread your seed as much as possible. Right, I'm not trying to be gross here or anything I'm saying. Is this really true?
Speaker 1:Well I mean, but yeah, it seems like it is because so many guys cheat. But then the same can be said about women. There are women who cheat in the guys who are monogamous nowadays.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's kind of like girls have a higher body count than guys. Right. So again, is this learned behavior? Can we even learn behavior that could override natural behaviors?
Speaker 1:Well, I do think that's possible because I think that's been done over the decades.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean because it well in the region. I think this is well. Let's again. Not that I'm picking on women, but women tend to want to be more monogamous in relationships. You know, I'm not knocking one way or the other, but that tends to be. Hence the reason we have jealousy.
Speaker 1:But again, is that learned?
Speaker 2:But is that learned? But do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:But I don't think that I learned behavior.
Speaker 2:I don't think jealousy is learned.
Speaker 1:You don't think so.
Speaker 2:It's an emotion, it's something we have. Right but if we weren't meant to be monogamous creatures, why do we have jealousy?
Speaker 1:Well and see, that's my question, because when you take jealousy, for instance, even as kids growing up, you can see the adults in your life getting jealous about things. Well, yeah, you don't know what to call it. You don't know, it's jealousy.
Speaker 2:Well, come on.
Speaker 1:But you're still learning that behavior.
Speaker 2:We came up during the 30 minutes sitcom. How many episodes from? All of them at some point dealt with jealousy.
Speaker 1:Right, they all did.
Speaker 2:Of some form or another, a best friend jealous over another friend or over a girlfriend, or whatever?
Speaker 1:Right, but that's my point when, as kids, we're still technically, we're learning jealousy.
Speaker 2:I mean, to a certain extent we are.
Speaker 1:So in that sense I don't think jealousy is a natural response to anything. I think it's a learned behavior.
Speaker 2:No, I think it is. To me, jealousy is an emotion, just like being sad or happy. You ever? Well, you're never taught how to be happy. You're not taught how to be sad. When you're a baby, you'll just laugh because you think it's funny.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, but even as kids, we're not jealous of anything, we're just because we shared. But then we started getting older and we started seeing examples of jealousy.
Speaker 2:I've seen moms that have multiple kids and the kids are really young and kids start showing jealousy over siblings.
Speaker 1:Well, that's true. You know what I mean, that is true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they haven't learned enough to really get that far along.
Speaker 1:Right, if you've got more than one kid and one kid gets something and the other one doesn't. Well, where's mine? Again? How come he or she got one and I?
Speaker 2:didn't Again. My belief of one women tend to be leaned more towards socialism and communism is because their mindset is there.
Speaker 1:You mean as far as the household's concerned?
Speaker 2:Right, and how, families and stuff. Okay, so their main thing is no, no, no, no kids, no, no, no. You've got to keep pace. You can't give one kid an ice cream and not give the other kids.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's a learned behavior.
Speaker 2:That to me might be a learned behavior.
Speaker 1:So that's nurture Right, but it's self-learned, but that's sort of self-learned. Well, it doesn't matter, it's still a learned behavior. But as far as jealousy goes, you're saying and I can kind of see that now I mean when you say Again, we don't learn emotions, we just experience Right.
Speaker 2:So you don't learn anger, as you don't learn upset, you might not experience jealousy like that as a kid, like we do when you're going through the puberty thing in the whole nine yards, and as adults, and because that those feelings are taken on different meanings, okay, and there's other feelings that we, again, we don't learn how to love.
Speaker 1:No, we don't.
Speaker 2:True, I mean again. We're gay men. We didn't choose to be gay, we just started to find men attractive. Right All right, it's not a learned behavior, it was just a national occurrence.
Speaker 1:Well, again it's.
Speaker 2:And I see the same thing in the boys I grew up with. That turned out to be straight Stasis started to find certain things attractive.
Speaker 1:Well, when you put it like that, even the mothers, as far as households go, being more socialist. When you put it like that, no, it's not really nurture, but it's more like self nurture, right, and this is more along the same thing where it's a self learned behavior. Well, where we had to learn how to not only love ourselves but to love somebody else in the process, even even if we had been straight right. It's not something that we innately know. We have to teach ourselves how to do that.
Speaker 2:Right, and again there are just certain things like no explanation here. All right, now we're completely different people. You really like vanilla ice cream?
Speaker 1:I don't. No, you don't. You can't stand vanilla.
Speaker 2:I cannot stand freaking vanilla. To me, that is. That is a nature behavior for you. Okay. Nobody tells you to like vanilla.
Speaker 1:You just like it. Yeah, it's something I've always I've always liked. Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:So again, where I see behaviors, where it's stuff that you've just always been that way as more nature, okay. And so again, yes, if you have that person around you and they're suspicious of everybody, that might just be a natural instinct for them, and it's not necessarily something they can change. It's just part of the way the brain sort of. So what?
Speaker 1:about? What? About something that's a little more iffy? Can you give me like an example of that?
Speaker 2:I mean where it's kind of where it might be iffy that all women want to get pregnant and have kids.
Speaker 1:But we know that not to be true.
Speaker 2:Right, that's what I'm saying. It might be iffy because, again, I've talked to a lot of women over the years, a lot of them when they're young say they don't want kids, but as they get older, suddenly do.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, that's been attributed to the whole quote.
Speaker 2:unquote biological clock, so forth, so on and stuff. But yet as kids they were, as young adults they were like no, don't want kids. No, no, no. But then over time they changed their mind. Right, but I've also seen it the opposite. I've also seen it the opposite way around, where a woman had a kid really early and or wanted kids. Right and wanted kids, but once they had them and reality said and I want the world. This was really like.
Speaker 1:Well, well, yeah, but I've also. I've also known some women who, as children, as young adults, they wanted kids. Oh, and then as the older, they got, they decided no, I don't want to have kids.
Speaker 2:But again, that's like us assuming that every guy wants to go out to be a soldier or a firefighter. Right. You know Well, I mean as a kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wanted to be. I wanted to be everything in the book. I wanted to be a police officer. I wanted to be a cowboy. I wanted to be a fireman. I wanted to be an astronaut. I know what I got. I was like no, I don't want to know that shit.
Speaker 2:But again, these are jobs. Right, these are not people, these are jobs. Jobs can be done by almost anyone, as long as you're qualified to do. Right. You with me.
Speaker 1:But you know I'll be honest, not at any time we're going up that I ever think I want to be a father.
Speaker 2:What no?
Speaker 1:You know. So I mean, is it nature?
Speaker 2:Is it? But you see what I'm asking. This is one where I mean we're never going to answer this question.
Speaker 1:I don't think so no. Again I mean we're.
Speaker 2:I'm not fooling myself for you or anybody else.
Speaker 1:Just food for thought.
Speaker 2:Because, again, what we're asking ourselves is what is actually nature? And even then, does that nature change from person to person, just like you know me liking chocolate, you liking vanilla. Think about it this way we experience this world through our five senses. Right, all right. And for anybody who says anything. Yes, I know there's more than five senses.
Speaker 1:Animaniacs.
Speaker 2:A song called the sense song, the sense song, all right, trust me.
Speaker 1:We know there's more than that's S E N S E sense song.
Speaker 2:It's the only way we experience it. No, at no time am I sure that I am seeing the exact same Hughes that somebody else in Right my brain could be interpreting that that hue is actually a different color for me than it is for you.
Speaker 1:Which I do believe, because we recently painted the apartment with like within the past five years, and two colors happen to be fairly close to each other, and there's one wall that you're like I can't tell the difference, right, and I'm like, but there's an obvious difference.
Speaker 2:But. But now, on the opposite hand, all right Now when we sit there and say that, all right. Hence the reason why I have a problem with all the trans people, because you only know how to be yourself. It's not like we're going around being like. What's his name? The comedian, the short comedian.
Speaker 1:Brad, I don't know his last name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not. Nobody goes around going. I'm a guy, I'm a guy, I'm a guy, I'm a guy, or I'm a girl, I'm a girl, I'm a girl. Just like he does not get up there and do that whole entire. I'm a midget, I'm a midget, I'm a midget.
Speaker 1:Right, I'll put a link in the description somewhere.
Speaker 2:But that's my point. And they go. Guys, don't go around going. Hey, I'm a guy. No, you can only feel yourself, you don't. So if you're sitting there trying to tell me, like you, you feel like a woman, how do you know? You don't. You don't even know if the person sitting beside you, if you pinch them, might get pleasure out of it instead of paying. If they were, if you were able to take them and put them in your brain. Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, so just assuming that during certain intimate behaviors between adults that the body suggestions and noises and stuff get that this person's feeling pleasure. Right.
Speaker 2:Because I remember a show called oh God. It was judging Amy, and I remember the mom because she played on Cagney and Lacey. But anyway, there was a kid this episode of it was. There was this family and they had like eight kids. All the kids were well adjusted. The family was a very loving family. Nothing bad Right. Anyway, she was sitting there watching a video of the family playing together and the littlest one sitting there because they were doing the whole tickle games and stuff like that Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, and her daughter, amy, who the show is about, comes in and looks as well goes what are you watching? That sounds like torture, and then it don't own her what the world was going on. The kid was perceiving this playful thing that at the rest of the family was seeing as a good thing is a bad thing. Right. That's what the world interests me in this whole entire thing. What part is nurture? What part is nature? Okay. You know, just because you perceive it this way, does it really mean to everybody else?
Speaker 1:So do you think? Do you think it's also? It goes beyond like basic emotions and basic actions, but you're saying it also goes into things like our perceptions of pain and pleasure.
Speaker 2:Right Our perception of wanting the world. We see how our brain interprets them.
Speaker 1:So this whole argument goes into that territory.
Speaker 2:Exactly, but you still want to say because we only experienced things from inside our body. I will never know what it's like to be something else other than this body. Right. Because I have no other form of reference. I can sympathize and and all that with other people. Yes, you with me we do that all day long and we're using visual cues and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But technically, we're not experiencing that.
Speaker 2:We're not experiencing that technically in the back of our minds. If you really think about it, you're you're not sure. I mean you see the people you know. I'm sorry. That's why in the world these S and M people exist. They experienced pleasure. I mean what most people would probably consider playing as pleasure.
Speaker 1:Right, but now again is that nature, or is it?
Speaker 2:nurture. That's the point.
Speaker 1:Is it something that was discovered at some point? Was it self taught? Was it environmental?
Speaker 2:or is it just the way your brain is wired? Right. And for some reason pain seems to set off your pleasure centers.
Speaker 1:I mean we could go into a whole nother not safe for work discussion on that, but, but again, but you start to see where you know again if you got people that can do this.
Speaker 2:and yes, I have heard of people who have been flogged to orgasm. Oh yeah, I have too. Is this a learned behavior? Is this something natured for this person? And then that still brings up. Now don't get me wrong. If we're sitting here and we're arguing this and we don't know if the sky is actually blue or if we're all perceived in the same queue, Right. What we can do is here's the wavelength. We're all seeing the exact same thing here. We're all seeing the megahertz or the energy coming off of it.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so there are things that we can do where we can like bullying water. We don't have a consensus from scientists on when water boils. We have an actual temperature. Right, but we can easily tell when water is boiling because observing it Right, but it has to get to a certain temperature.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, to be technically considered, boiling water.
Speaker 2:But you still want to say in there, there's no argument there, right? So we might argue the way it's saying. Because the way my brain might interpret the sound of bullying water and the way your brain might interpret the sound of water could be two different things.
Speaker 1:Could be, yeah.
Speaker 2:Could be, but I'm going to say let's go out on a little bit of a limb there going. I think the majority of us experience the world the exact same way. The majority of the time, that's the bulk of everybody.
Speaker 1:Okay, I would go as far as to say I like the wavelength Right Thing to where it might be within a narrow range.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So to speak, but it's on its own kind of a spectrum, if you will, yes, so that we might not actually be seeing the same type of colors or hearing the same exact sounds. But it's within that narrow range on the wavelength that it's pretty much uniform as it is.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we are assuming there's commonality here, because people will sometimes describe experience in the same thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly. In the same way, maybe not in the exact same world, or close to the same way, or pretty close Right.
Speaker 2:So again, I'm not ignoring the fact that there are experiences that everybody else everybody is. It's just that there's some point to where we have to start realizing you are an individual and you are perceiving the world in a unique way from everybody else Right and that is strictly considered nature. Nature Right.
Speaker 1:Everything else could easily be considered nurture.
Speaker 2:To some extent yes.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, to some extent, because everything a lot of things are based on the way you experience your environment.
Speaker 2:Right, Because I mean I would sort of like to go back and see all these feral kids over the years and see if they've noticed any repetitive behaviors that these kids and would assume that those are more akin to nurture if they're not demonstrated by the animals that they were raised by. So in other words, if one was raised by wolves or somebody in the Canaan family. Right.
Speaker 2:And someone was raised by coyotes or I don't know, tigers, take something. And both humans, in both situations, showed certain behaviors. I would have to say that that is nature, that is the nature of humanity. Okay, do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:Yeah, in other words, they could be two different families of animals.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Two different species altogether Right.
Speaker 2:So once you take any commonalities, between the humans raised by two different ones right, would seem to indicate more nurture behaviors and more of our base human behaviors.
Speaker 1:Right. So those commonalities would be the nature Right and the rest of them would be nurture.
Speaker 2:Right Again, like, I like, like. Like the people you were attracted to, I think those are nature. We're just wired to be attracted to those attributes that those people have Gotcha. So again, if you like somebody who's overweight, my assumption is that that is part of your. That's not something learned. Right no.
Speaker 2:All right, you know, if you like tall women, then that's just part of your nature, right? If you like short guys, then that's just part of your nature. You'll never be able to change that behavior Right when we're looking at like people were attracted to and stuff like that. That's nature. The way we behave, or the way we think we should behave, I think are more learned behaviors. All right.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetimepleseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit. Thank you.
