Pagan Coffee Talk

What's in a Name?

October 25, 2023 Life Temple and Seminary Season 3 Episode 9
Pagan Coffee Talk
What's in a Name?
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

What's in a name? A spiritual name, to be precise. Join your hosts, Lady Alba and Lord Night, as they navigate through the fascinating world of spiritual names, their meanings, and how they shape our identities. In an exciting journey of personal revelations, they try to unravel the intricate process of choosing a spiritual name - a process steeped with tradition, yet ripe for personal interpretation. Hear firsthand about Lady Alba’s painstaking research and the grueling test she faced to comprehend the depth of her chosen name.

Ever wondered how the tradition of spiritual names pans out across different religions? We discuss that as well, shedding some light on the nuances that separate and unite different faiths in their adoption of spiritual names. We debate the controversial practice of adopting the name of a deity, exploring the enormity of power and responsibility that could come with such a choice.  So buckle up and get ready for this enlightening ride into the realm of spiritual names and their profound impact on our spiritual journey.

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Lord Oswyn:

Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Lady Alba and Lord Night.

Lord Night:

Spiritual names.

Lady Alba:

Spiritual names, man. So I guess, do you want to start by talking about our version of this and the traditional, or do we want to talk about the more new school?

Lord Night:

Well, let's talk about ours first and we can evolve along the way.

Lady Alba:

Okay. So I think for us, the choosing of a spiritual name has a number of very important uses and applications and, on one hand, it is the delineation between the mundane and the spiritual.

Lord Night:

Right.

Lady Alba:

It was also. It is part of anonymity and part of keeping our spiritual lives separate.

Lord Night:

Right.

Lady Alba:

It is also, though, I feel like it was the mantra that I was raised in craft with, of there is power in a name, and names have power. Names have meaning, so the selection of one is incredibly important to align yourself with the types of attributes that you want to have, not only in your spiritual workings, but in your religious life.

Lord Night:

Well now, when you're doing that, you also have to keep in mind the negatives that come along with those. Absolutely so again, we have a problem in craft People don't want to look at always the negatives.

Lady Alba:

Well, so in our tradition, when an initiate is

Lord Night:

Let me try this from a different point of view.

Lady Alba:

Okay.

Lord Night:

How did you pick your first name?

Lady Alba:

Oh boy, we're going to go there, oh boy.

Lord Night:

I mean, if we're talking about the process of this, let's All right. So, oh boy, I mean when my high priestess asked me that why did you pick Night? Because I could spell it.

Lady Alba:

Oh God, that's also you being a butt- head. That's just you know. You just couldn't help yourself. I don't know, and I know you got slapped with a ruler for it while Lord Min laughed. It is Okay. So for me I was a somewhat odd situation, because my given name is also readily and frequently shortened, so much so that people only call me typically by the nickname or the shortened version and my birth name has a tremendous amount of spiritual association and connotation.

Lord Night:

And baggage

Lady Alba:

And I know what it meant for my parents when they chose the name for me. I had already done a tremendous amount of research on the figures associated with my name, so I wanted to take my birth name as my first spiritual name, at first degree. Now, this was very unorthodox.

Lord Night:

Yes.

Lady Alba:

So I was put through the seven circles of hell.

Lord Night:

It was not the seven circles, it was close. There were, at least it was only the first two, okay, fine.

Lady Alba:

And so at Life Temple we require all initiates to write a name paper when they are petitioning for their first degree and they are selecting their spiritual name. And so my Now. I've seen over the years I've seen name papers that are a paragraph long. I've seen name papers that are 10 pages long. Mine was a college thesis, along with illustrations and annotations. It was ridiculous. It had a bibliography the whole nine because I had to prove without a shadow of a doubt that I understood exactly why I was choosing the name, the positives of the name, the spiritual aspects of the name, the negative connotations of the name, the Anthropological associations with the name, the mythological.

Lady Alba:

I had to even dive into other religions where the name appears. It was, It was incredible, and I think I think I don't know, because I wasn't the decision maker or part of them, I think one of the reasons you guys did that to me is because everybody wanted to know that I wasn't just being lazy and it wasn't a cop out, right, yeah and it was certainly yeah.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, I mean I was very serious about wanting to do that. However, what also became apparent was that, yes, my full name was going to be used almost exclusively then, moving forward, in craft settings, whereas the nickname would be used everywhere else. And it was a tremendous amount of research, it was a tremendous. I mean I had to go so far down the rabbit hole that I mean it was beyond meditating. I mean I was having lucid dreams in relation to the name and, again, its association after one of the archangels, so I mean that should give you guys some indic ation right there.

Lord Night:

Again because in our tradition is we typically do not like people to take on certain names.

Lady Alba:

Yes, so there's another aspect of it. So, and this is going to bring us into the modern and what's going on today, it is somewhat taboo in the traditional churches, traditional craft to take on the name of a deit y or a figure worshipped and taboo of much again with the name and and the responsibility that it comes with.

Lord Night:

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Lady Alba:

Yes.

Lord Night:

Well, lord Marlins are very few and far between.

Lady Alba:

But now and here's, here's how I've always looked at it too have you ever met a dog named Thor?

Lord Night:

Lucky Thor a cat named Isis.

Lady Alba:

They are unholy in every sense of the word because they whether we want it to happen or not true, they take on those attributes. I have never met an animal with a deity name. It was not crazy. Absolutely, insufferably, you know, not not even behaving like their species, potentially or Very aggressive or very feral, or you know right.

Lord Night:

The on that edge makes you kind of wonder if there's something special wrong there.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, well, you're not gonna let me, let's be honest, right, you're not gonna domesticate a Norse God. No, that's not happening. So yeah, now. So so with name papers, you know we're pretty Strict on on what we allow, what we don't. And again, it's more about Does the person requesting the name really truly fully understand and what it is they're taking? Now? Please understand. We are not the only religion that does this, none, this is actually extremely common amongst the Catholics. Priests take a spiritual name.

Lord Night:

None, none, yes. They change their names after they go through whatever the ritual was.

Lady Alba:

It's the same thing. So, at Catholic faith, at confirmation, which is the last sacrament before marriage, right, the last sacrament, basically, as a child, when you were confirmed, you are stating the name that you will take should you enter the clergy or the nunnery or the convent, either one and that name will then be with you as again, as your spiritual name. So it's a similar process the Pope Every time a pope is named, the pope changes their name to represent how they intend to pope.

Lord Oswyn:

I'm not going to say rule, because I don't like that, that term, right, he's not.

Lady Alba:

He's, yes, he's a leader, but he's not a ruler.

Lord Night:

But he's hoping, right, he's hoping, so yes, his intention to pope is in his name.

Lady Alba:

I said Pope, not poop.

Lord Night:

So there's about three people right now that just like slammed on the brakes.

Lady Alba:

Oh, I know, I know it's a great day for a podcast, so modern and look, some of us right. Some will keep saying modern, but then, backtracking, some of us take multiple names. Yes, with each degree of initiation, many people choose an additional name. So in the traditional church it's not uncommon to run into Lord or Lady, so and so who has three individual names? Lord Chase Knight Smith, right Now. That wasn't even the order in which you took them. No, no, that's one of the tricks. Right, we can change it around, we can. And in some of the bases, right, some of its numerology based.

Lady Alba:

Some of it is, some of it is based on A person. Yes, spiritual math, geometry, spiritual alphabet work yeah, there's.

Lord Night:

There's so many different components that we layer into this, so this is a whole lot harder than you thought it was, wasn't it?

Lady Alba:

It's not that it's hard, it's that I'm also trying to talk about this without divulging.

Lord Night:

It's a lot harder than you think.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, yeah something that is going to verge on a mystery that I'm really not supposed to divulge as a third degree Okay, to non initiates anyway. So nowadays we see loads of witches and pagans using a spiritual name, a moniker, a pseudonym, whatever you want to call it. Many of them are not degree, they're not initiates that I'm aware of. They sometimes self initiated and they took it upon themselves to take on a spiritual name. So, that being said, I have met probably a dozen Minervas. I know 15 Diana's.

Lord Night:

Don't give me started on the fox fire.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, the foxes, the silver, this, or that's the wolf, this or that star, moon, crescent. There's just so many of these common threads. So I look at something like Minerva and I go, yeah, okay, look, I get it. Minerva's a badass. I completely understand, and if you have in any way at some point in your life, felt marginalized, nothing is going to make you feel more empowered than a connection with Minerva. But to take her name, those are some big, huge, giant, spiky shoes that are hiding a couple of daggers, all right, don't underplay that.

Lady Alba:

And then and sometimes I see it happen, I think, unknowingly where. So, for instance, I've met a few Minervas who are very standoffish, very difficult to connect with, no-transcript, very guarded, and I believe this is a direct attribute from the name. I think that that is when you take on a warrior type, because she was Minerva, was not, you know, fun and cuddly. This is not Aphrodite we're talking about.

Lord Night:

Fun and cuddly. Yeah, are any of our goddesses? Fun?

Lady Alba:

There's a couple that are a little cuddlier than others. But you know, we're not, that's not this, no, and you know, and of course, now with with modern everything you know, the men, or everybody's Viking, viking, viking there's, like you know.

Lord Night:

I'm sorry. This is the only reason I hate Thor ever came out. The whole Viking shows and stuff no, it's too much of a fad.

Lady Alba:

It it well, I don't think it's a fad, I think it's. It's going to stick around. It's a double edged sword, right. On one hand, it did us a lot of good because it led people to go OK, so this is a Marvel character, but it's also part of a mythology. So who is this? And when people read, they researched, they Well, you see.

Lord Night:

but I see a lot of people that aren't reading or researching for sure they're just accepting that the Loki from the Marvel movies is the same Loki from the mist, from the actual.

Lady Alba:

That's scary. Yeah, you see what I'm saying.

Lord Night:

Yeah, here's where we're having a problem. Yeah, I can everybody want to believe that these Viking shows and period shows that why yes, or somewhat correct, they're not completely.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, there's always, always, always, especially when it comes to pop culture, going to be some artistic licensing and and some tweaking. Yeah definitely, but it still comes down to how do you want to be perceived, how do you want to be known?

Lord Night:

Now, these people that have problems with these names? Is this because they have never been taught how to become these names? I think it's because the name overtook them. I understand that.

Lady Alba:

Mm, hmm.

Lord Night:

I think the names are sometimes the names a little bit too almost like a hijacking.

Lady Alba:

at that point, the name took on a life of its own.

Lord Night:

Right and they didn't. And I think a lot of people didn't realize the expectations of people going around calling you that name and suddenly expect you to act that way.

Lady Alba:

Correct. I mean, and look, here's the other thing. Again, it's what we had talked about. You know the negatives there are no Lord Hitler's running around, obviously. You know there's no Nero's running around. There's no you know, because these names automatically strike so much ick in modern society. Yeah, no one wants that.

Lord Night:

But well, I don't see anybody picking the name Jeffrey Dahmer. No.

Lady Alba:

Adolf again same thing, same.

Lord Night:

thing.

Lady Alba:

It's not, you know it's not commonplace, but it's because in that instance they're so obsessed with the negative, they're so obsessed with the connotation. But then, on this other stuff, they only want to look at the good Right. They only want to look at, you know, minerva the wise? You know who was represented as the owl? Well, yeah, that's beautiful.

Lord Night:

But you're forgetting how in the world she became that wise.

Lady Alba:

Right. There's so much more to it. There's also something to be said here's. Here's a great example. We know a Lord Peregrine. Mm hmm, I was having a conversation with a priestess elder of mine. We were again this was part of the name discussion in me taking one of mine and she said you know, lord Peregrine just recently said you know, I don't understand why, I just can't seem to take root. I'm always traveling.

Lady Alba:

I'm always moving. I'm always. You know my partner and I really just want to settle down and have a place to call home. And she looked at him and went you took the name of a carrier bird. You took the name of an animal whose only is to fly constantly and long and great distances. What did you expect was going to happen? So sometimes we balance our names, which is why we don't take just one.

Lord Night:

No, sometimes we use other names to balance out other parts of what we've took home.

Lady Alba:

And again, it's that polarity thing that I'm always talking about. I've even seen where priests and priestesses have taken names that balance each other.

Lord Night:

Yes.

Lady Alba:

Because if you're working that closely together, that can be pretty important. It's still an individual decision I don't think anybody's being coerced into doing that but it can be effective.

Lord Night:

And it is something you need to take into account when you're thinking about this who am I going to be working with and how are they going to react Absolutely Like, I think, in your case too, and, mind you, this is common, right?

Lady Alba:

There's also how can it be misconstrued or misunderstood or mistaken, like for you. A lot of people initially, when they meet you or introduce to you, they don't know if it's an IGHT or K-N-I-G, because those are two very different things. Night versus night right, that is not the same word. We also get into foreign language, which I'm a big proponent of, and linguistics and how that plays a role in things. Origin If we don't know the origins of the word that we're taking in all of its parts and meanings, that's a problem.

Lord Night:

I mean because you, if you're going to take a name from Greek mythology, you need to understand it from a Greek point of view. Damn right, because this is what you're asking into your life.

Lady Alba:

And then potentially Latin Don't give a sardone the Latin. But it's all connected. In the US, because we're such an insular country when it comes to language, we don't really think outside of English and Spanish.

Lord Night:

No.

Lady Alba:

You go to other parts of the world, especially Europe, right, you're constantly surrounded by loads of different languages and one word can be very close to another word because they share a common origin. So you know these things are important. They do matter in how ritualistically you are going to bond with that name. Yeah, what do you think people should consider as the qualifications for taking one? Because I think that's another hard part too. People are like oh my God, how do I pick a name?

Lord Night:

How do I pick a name? Yeah Well, I mean again, if you're doing your meditations and you're understanding yourself, you're going to pick a name for yourself Fair, it is an internal thing that you have to do here. It's not like I can give you Mmm, it's not like here. Here's these 12 steps, true, yeah?

Lady Alba:

Yeah, but there are some parameters, I think. I think you have to look at the pantheon that you're closest to, right, the belief system that you're following, what speaks to you right? Because if you're not, here's a good one. We're talking about Viking names, right, bjorn? Bjorn is very popular as a Viking name, but its meaning is bear. That's its direct translation. So if you don't really have a connection To a bear with the animal Mmm, maybe that's not the name for you, despite the fact that you might be looking at one of the Viking kings that it was associated with or some figure in history.

Lord Night:

Well, and again, if you're joining a coven or something, picking a name that makes you a loner oh yeah, you know. I mean you come up to me going, hey, I'm going to be called Badger. This might not be a good thing. Badgers tend to be isolated creatures.

Lady Alba:

A little aggressive.

Lady Alba:

You know, yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's something to consider we want to be the name, without a doubt, and I understand that in so many ways. I mean, so many of us use the name, or I think so many people pick a name to compensate or to let go of the past, right, and to reinvent themselves. But sometimes we can go a little too far, true, yeah, and you've really got to kind of take a step back and go. Hmm, you know, it's like buying Prius or buying, you know, some big, giant monster truck that's going to make people go. Oh, he's compensating.

Lord Night:

Yeah.

Lady Alba:

I mean like they're both going to get you where you want to go. The Prius is a hell of a lot less intimidating, though.

Lord Night:

The Prius will do it for $1.50, where your Humvee's going to do it for $5.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah, six miles to the gallon you're getting, but. But if you equate that to a human being, the Prius is going to have more stamina. Yes, the Hummer's going to hope.

Lord Night:

I intended run out of gas real soon. That's the one shot. Yeah, exactly.

Lady Alba:

It's one time thing that Prius is over here going. I got a battery. I'm good. It's important we think about. You know the amount of energy and effort that people put into naming a baby. It's the same thing. You know you are gifting that child With a name, yeah, with attributes of the name, with things that you want to see for them.

Lord Night:

I mean that name becomes their personality. It becomes that person oh, absolutely your name and a baby. This is literally what we're doing.

Lady Alba:

Absolutely, and there's there's no two ways about it. My husband's name was James and he didn't. He didn't. There was no Jimmy. No, jim, right, he was James. He didn't shorten it. He hated that and I used to joke. I used to call him King James because, let me tell you something, he took on that air Well, think about it this way how many Eugene's do you know?

Lord Night:

that is not some nerdy little guy.

Lady Alba:

Mm.

Lord Night:

Hmm, yeah you know doing some type of accounting or something Sure, sure yeah. There's no. Are there people that don't always fit them? Yes, yes.

Lady Alba:

Of course. But you know, like I have a close friend whose name, I've always known him as Rick, that's what he goes. We call himself Rick. The other day we got onto a zoom meeting and Google automatically put his name in his Richard and I went who the?

Lord Oswyn:

hell is Richard, and he just he goes.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, and I said you are in no way, shape or form or Richard, he goes, I know, that's why I go by Rick.

Lord Night:

No, no, we're discussing this. I do have a question for you, something to think about.

Lady Alba:

All right.

Lord Night:

What about those people again who have certain names?

Lady Alba:

Yeah.

Lord Night:

Like what is that, richard? Or whatever that can be turned into, bob.

Lady Alba:

Yeah, jim Dick.

Lord Night:

Yeah, do you become more of the personality, of the nickname or the actual?

Lady Alba:

Well, and that's what's interesting, so I know for me the nickname. When you get the nickname, you are getting a milder, goofier, more lighthearted version of me, right, yeah, when my full name makes an appearance, that's a very different person. Yeah, and that is.

Lord Night:

That is something to consider Again it is also in the way people refer to you. Absolutely, there's a difference between me walking up to you and talking to you in your mundane name and blah blah.

Lord Night:

There's a different persona. When I'm walking into ritual, going my lady, you know, lady Abba, blah, blah, blah. Yes, there's this different, even when we're yelling at each other from across the room, oh yeah, even then I've seen the students or the people there at ritual just suddenly shut up because you're like hey, did you grab that? And everybody kind of go oh, they're using names.

Lady Alba:

I mean, the other thing too is left to their own devices, right? I mean, a coven would be overrun with Diana's.

Lord Night:

Oh God yes.

Lady Alba:

It would be right. That's another, I think, reason why spiritual names in traditional groups are monitored, if you will, so that they can delineate, because otherwise, who the hell are you talking about? Lady Diana could be one of seven different people that can get tough.

Lord Night:

I mean, God forbid. You actually named the coven. That too, oh you think? Yeah, hi, we're the Diana's.

Lady Alba:

Jesus Calling on all kinds of things. I'm going Jewish, I'm going Christian. I don't know what's happening.

Lord Night:

Oh, you're gay.

Lady Alba:

But spiritual names and for some people it's very nerve wracking.

Lord Night:

But don't get me wrong. I also think that sometimes people take it too serious.

Lady Alba:

Oh yeah, yeah, Some people do, and I think that this is this particular episode is almost a cautionary tale on both sides.

Lord Night:

I mean cause we know a guy named rubber ducky yeah.

Lady Alba:

Him and we always had an imaginary lady green beans when I was in classes, because the point was that when Lady Green beans walked into the room and was introduced as Lady Green beans, that's what she called her. You didn't question it, she was Lady Green beans.

Lord Night:

Which makes you wonder if somebody can name themselves fingers.

Lady Alba:

I mean lady fingers. But I think that if you are already sort of, if you've already taken a name in a non-traditional sense, then really take the extra time to think about it, to dissect it, to go back and do some of this research and ask yourself is it really befitting of you, is it really who you want to be spiritually, because that may change. The other piece is, if you're struggling to find a name or to choose one, what are your hobbies? What are your interests? What are again, what pantheon do you lean towards?

Lord Night:

What's your favorite?

Lady Alba:

color yeah.

Lord Night:

Strange how some of these names come about.

Lady Alba:

There's so much inspiration. What's your favorite place in nature? Right, because I mean sometimes we name after get the mountains or the beach.

Lord Night:

You know that can be, and we still have the names like Brooke which it actually is River and all

Lady Alba:

these.

Lord Night:

These are not names.

Lady Alba:

We normally turn around or hear very often no, and yet they're very powerful names. So yeah, grove Forest, these are all different trees, plants, flora, fauna.

Lord Night:

Now what would you say for someone who wanted to try a name like Atlantic or like one of the oceans?

Lady Alba:

Like Pacific.

Lord Night:

Yeah, I wish I can't say that Skip.

Lady Alba:

Um, I think that again, first of all, it's understanding that it is a big name, it's a powerful thing Of water. Yes, that is a very imposing entity and that could be intimidating. But you have to research again. So much about it, so many again the understanding of the good, the bad, the ugly in deciding if that's really what you want.

Lord Night:

What you want in your life because it will be there on a daily basis. It does not. It's not just for ritual.

Lady Alba:

No, and emotionally, I think, is where we see the biggest changes in people, right. When they take on a name. They have seen people after initiation who are just so emotionally overwhelmed they're crying all the time, they're, they're weepy, they're well. Their name is associated with water in some way. Surprise, surprise. Or the opposite, where you can have somebody who becomes very stern, very logical, a little bit too rigid Earth. Then you have the people who get angry and their you know, their temper starts flaring.

Lord Night:

You got a little bit too much of that fire Fire.

Lady Alba:

So yeah, my favorite by far are the air names. And those people become space cadets and they're walking into walls and tripping on their own feet and we're going yeah, okay, let's all right, let's just get you.

Lord Night:

You thought this was a good idea.

Lady Alba:

We went ahead and approved it, just to let's, let's get you grounded, but it is extremely personal and I and while I think you know we're being a little hard on the people who are taking the very common names, look, if that's really genuinely, wholeheartedly, what you identify with, fine, go for it. But just know there is a whole big, wide world of names and words to choose from. You know, sometimes I will recommend to people pick something you know you love and they will say to me you know, for instance, okay, owl the bird, right, owls, great. And I will say owl in 15 different languages. Yeah, see which one speaks to you. Or look up the Latin genus of a specific type of owl and maybe that'll be where it lies. So that that's the bit of creativity you have to introduce.

Lord Night:

And don't get me wrong, going around and like trying to use the name for a little while might actually help too.

Lady Alba:

So oh, yeah, so, okay, so, let's, let's wrap up this way so you when went night night, because you could spell it.

Lord Night:

Then I did a Smith.

Lady Alba:

Smith because because I was doing metalwork at the black smithing, black smithing right, and then chase for hunting hunting, okay, and I went Gabrielle, my given name, alba, which means dawn, in Italian and Latin and Spanish, I believe, and knocked, which is night in German, which was a nod to you.

Lord Night:

Right.

Lady Alba:

Yes, so there you have it.

Lord Night:

This is, don't get me wrong. The second two names always seem to be a whole lot easier to pick. I do pick the first one.

Lady Alba:

They do because, again, by that time, you have figured out what you need to balance. Yes, by that point you're kind of going. Well, I got a little too much of this going on.

Lord Night:

So let me find something. Was it such a great idea anyway?

Lady Alba:

Counter that just a scooch. Remember, kids? The name of the game is balance, balance, balance, balance, and all things speaking of which in more coffee.

Lord Oswyn:

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at life temple seminary dot org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.

Lord Oswyn:

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning.

The Importance of Spiritual Names
Spiritual Names in Religion
Choosing Spiritual Names and Their Impact

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