Are we, as a society, becoming too touchy? Join us on a spirited episode as we grapple with the constant need for disclaimers in the pagan community and its broader societal implications. We're tired of doling out endless clarifications that our beliefs aren't mandates for others, but could we be dealing with a larger issue? We argue that the pervasiveness of warning labels speaks volumes about our declining sense of personal responsibility. Get ready for a thought-provoking conversation that might just have you questioning the norms.
Have disclaimers and caveats become an unfortunate necessity, or are they a defensive tool, rooted in apologies? And here's a wild thought - what if we ditched the disclaimers altogether? Imagine a "no warning month" challenge where we bravely drop the protective armor of disclaimers. We encourage you, our listeners, to join this discussion and share your views on our Twitter survey. Let's stir up a storm, ruffle a few feathers, and challenge the status quo, together. It's about time we started thinking for ourselves, wouldn't you agree?
Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook
Are we, as a society, becoming too touchy? Join us on a spirited episode as we grapple with the constant need for disclaimers in the pagan community and its broader societal implications. We're tired of doling out endless clarifications that our beliefs aren't mandates for others, but could we be dealing with a larger issue? We argue that the pervasiveness of warning labels speaks volumes about our declining sense of personal responsibility. Get ready for a thought-provoking conversation that might just have you questioning the norms.
Have disclaimers and caveats become an unfortunate necessity, or are they a defensive tool, rooted in apologies? And here's a wild thought - what if we ditched the disclaimers altogether? Imagine a "no warning month" challenge where we bravely drop the protective armor of disclaimers. We encourage you, our listeners, to join this discussion and share your views on our Twitter survey. Let's stir up a storm, ruffle a few feathers, and challenge the status quo, together. It's about time we started thinking for ourselves, wouldn't you agree?
Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook
Music. Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Azwan and Lord Knight. Quick question for you.
Speaker 2:Alright, quick answer.
Speaker 1:Why? No, it ain't gonna be no quick answer. Why does everything have to have a disclaimer?
Speaker 2:I have no idea.
Speaker 1:I mean, aren't certain things implied?
Speaker 2:Let's elaborate a little bit more.
Speaker 1:What are we talking about here?
Speaker 2:I sit here and watch some YouTube and different channels and stuff like that, and I just as guilty.
Speaker 1:Pod kettle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pot kettle. It seems like when we're talking and doing the podcast and stuff, every so often we need to elaborate that we are talking about our tradition and nobody else's, and not saying that you have to follow it or not follow it. And when I'm watching these, all these other podcasts do the same thing. I gotta ask my question Can we just stop? Can it just be applied that we all know what in the world that we're not trying to?
Speaker 1:I suppose. I mean, I don't, I don't see why not, but I just think in today's climate there's just too many people who will take it as we're being authoritative, we're being, you know, we're being elitist elitist authoritarian gatekeeping yeah. Yeah, and I think that's just the climate of today that we can. I don't think we can no longer just have things implied.
Speaker 2:But I had to be this way. Even when we're done and stuff like that, we will sometimes get comments back that we are rude, blah, blah, blah, even though we've sat there and said in the podcast itself. So again, my question is is why aren't we even doing that? If you're not listening to the fact is, is that we're saying we're not telling you how to believe. This is how we believe, you know that's.
Speaker 1:that's a good question. All right, if they're not listening, why are we doing it?
Speaker 2:Why are we doing it? Because apparently they're not, because they're not hearing us. Like when we did the whole initiation thing, we had a lot of people come back going oh no, no, no, y'all are assholes, right, and the whole nine yards. When we kept on telling everybody through that, all these, this is what we believe. We're not saying y'all have to, but this is what we believe. In this way we look at it. And then you have the people on the other side going oh my God, no, we got to set our hair on fire. Blah, blah, blah, how dare y'all. And then we look at it. But no, that's you telling us how to believe. Oh, you're okay keeping blah, blah, blah, blah, but yet all this podcast, all the pagan podcasters do this at some point.
Speaker 1:Just some extent yeah. Or they'll have a disclaimer about something else. So you know, don't try this at home or there'll be whatever disclaimer involved.
Speaker 2:So my question is have we just become that dumb of a society that we have to remind people every 15 minutes? Well, we're not talking about child. We're not talking about Maybe.
Speaker 1:I mean it's kind of like the warning labels you look at some of these warning labels and you're like, really we have to have a label for that.
Speaker 2:And apparently say it because again you get warning labels if somebody's done that Right.
Speaker 1:So I mean I don't know, Can we, can we stop with the disclaimers?
Speaker 2:I mean at some point. I mean when you get coffee and it says caution may contain hot liquid. Well, I ordered coffee, I hope. I hope it's hot, you know, unless I ordered iced coffee right.
Speaker 1:Specifically all because one woman went through a McDonald's drive through and the lid wasn't on, and the lid wasn't on and she spilled coffee on herself Like I burned. Well, it was hot. What'd you expect?
Speaker 2:What do you? It's coffee, it's hot. You're handling the tool window through a car.
Speaker 1:So now there's a warning label.
Speaker 2:So now there's a warning label.
Speaker 1:You know what? Why don't we just, why don't we just start doing that? No more disclaimers, at least for a few episodes, and see where it gets.
Speaker 2:You know? No, I'm not. I'm being serious Trial and error no no no, I am. I am to the point on this because I've thought about it over and over again. I'm done. I'm not going to do it anymore. If y'all can't figure out that I am talking about our tradition and nobody else's, pretty much.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm not in the world I believe in and y'all can't handle it, not my problem.
Speaker 1:I mean we are in season three, Season three by now.
Speaker 2:If y'all haven't figured this out. Then there's other issues there.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean there's two years of disclaimers.
Speaker 2:But do you see what I'm saying? What point do we say Okay, this is enough, All right, this is. I'm not going to sit there. And you know, oh no, we're not. We're not trying to bash this, we're not trying to bash that, we're giving our opinions, Right? But then these are also the same people that you know. You'll sit there and you'll give your opinion on something and it's like oh, you have personally attacked me and killed me in my heart.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, if that's the case, maybe you need a helmet.
Speaker 2:Maybe Life's rough.
Speaker 3:Get a helmet.
Speaker 2:Life's rough, get a helmet, I mean, but you see where I'm coming with. Is that at some point? It gets, it gets tiring Do you have to repeatedly remind me, over and over again.
Speaker 1:Right, when it's been said so many times already, and I get that we, you know it's like any other thing. I think you're going to have new people coming into it, but, and I think those people, if there's not a disclaimer somewhere in the audio, you know somebody somewhere is going to say, well blah blah, blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 2:Well, now they're just gatekeeping, they're being authoritarian. They're saying that they're the only way. Where again, like I said, I've seen us sit there and do that, but yet still get the same we sit there and tell everybody no, this is what we believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we still get the same.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no, no, you're just telling everybody what, how. So, again ignoring the complaint. But again, how is that happening when we've been telling y'all this is the way we believe and you believe the way you want to write? I don't. There's a disconnect there in my head for some reason.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't get it. I really don't. Anytime I'm listening to somebody else and they're expressing their ideas. I'm not thinking. Well, they're telling me that this is what I have to do.
Speaker 2:I have my issues with Thorn Mooney Okay, but at no time did her first book, when I was reading it, when I was going through it in an audible, did I ever think oh my God, how dare her tell me? How in the world? No, I thought the book was written. This is what a traditional Gordnary and Temple works.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Is all I got out of. I'm not mad about it. I'm not upset because there's nothing there. I don't mean that nothing. There was nothing offensive there. No, there wasn't. It was just a different religion in the way they do it. Why should I get mad about that, right? Why should I get upset? I didn't. At no time did I ever feel like she was telling me I had to do it this way.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean the same thing with going online and doing the same thing. At no point do I ever hear anybody go no, you have to do it this way. Here's my problems with it. This is what I'm doing it. Here's my theory on it that every fucking time somebody has to pop and go, you're trying to tell people what Listen, people start listening.
Speaker 1:Again, I think that's the key point is that people after a while people just tune out.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:They're not really hearing what's being said.
Speaker 2:They're not actively listening.
Speaker 1:If they were, I don't think we would have these problems.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, and again, if you're listening to something and you don't understand it and you're having problems with it, especially if you're listening on like Audible or a podcast you know what? Helps Sit down and sort of transcribe what the world's being said, because then you're concentrating on the actual words being said and you'll start hearing what the world's saying better.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean you can do that. You can reach out to the people who are who you're listening to, you can ask them questions, you can try to get clarifying answers. I mean there's so many other ways that you can that you can do this and still get the gist of what's being said.
Speaker 2:Why anyone sits there and does the following and it drives them into the wild, makes no sense to me. All right, for as much as what I believe in, I believe that I'm not going to change or anything for anybody. Screw you with what I believe. I have to accept that everybody else in the world is the exact same way, that what they believe is what they believe, right. I can't change it, no matter what. No, what's wrong with this concept?
Speaker 3:Not a thing, Where's this idea?
Speaker 2:Just because I sit down and listen to a Christian pastor, that somehow that's going to corrupt my belief system, right? Just because I'm a Christian and I suddenly listen to a podcast, how in the world is that suddenly going to corrupt my belief system, right? Unless you just don't want people to expose to new ideas? This is where I think the problem is on that. But again, it makes no sense. How in the world do you can cut yourself off just by going? No can't listen to them. They're too authoritarian.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know, I'll admit I'm just as guilty as everybody else sometimes on things like that, because you know, there's just sometimes I sit down and I start listening to somebody and then you know, I turn them. I tune them out because I feel like they're not talking to me.
Speaker 2:Well, they're not.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like but I mean, I'm just saying they're. I feel like they don't have anything for me to listen to.
Speaker 2:Right. But again, this is like some of these movies that have been coming out where that they've not done so well. But yeah, somebody comes out, but this movie wasn't made for you. Okay, again, this happens in the world. There are just some things that aren't made for you, right? You know, there are certain stories I'd, certain stories I don't like listening to or reading or anything like that, just because I don't interest me.
Speaker 1:Right. But again, like with some people that I listen to you know some of their stuff I don't always get all the way through. Sometimes I'd get a minute or so in and then I'm done. But Well, again I'm not sitting back thinking, well, they're just being the latest.
Speaker 2:Right, and no time are you sitting there reading these books. Same thing happens in books. You'll sort of read a book or something so far in your car. Okay, there's a bit of couple of books. I've done that on.
Speaker 1:Well, that's usually because you know we get so far into it and you and I will be just like okay, well, this is just regurgitated information that we've read before. Right, there's really nothing new here. There's nothing new here or anything like that I mean even at least for us, might be for somebody else.
Speaker 2:My point is this happens with other books besides Pagan? Well, sure does. Yeah, I mean I just started the north and the south book, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, or something on that is supposed to be about the Civil War era, but I really couldn't make it through it because, again, the book wasn't the way I take it was. The book wasn't written for guys, it was written from a woman's point of view about her daily life, and it doesn't interest me, right? I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but again we're back to I just did it.
Speaker 1:Yes, you just did it. I just did it. So I'm back to can we, can we really get rid of disclaimers? I don't think we can. I think it's so far ingrained into us that we just we blur it out Automatically do it Again.
Speaker 2:it's the same argument, like with the whole immigration, because the right says they don't want illegal immigration and then the left goes well, you just don't want immigration at all.
Speaker 1:Right, what? No, that's not what we said.
Speaker 2:That's not what was said, but yet it's this and this. And you said yeah, don't understand what causes that. I don't understand what causes people just to go Screw you, blah, blah, blah, even though you've killed me 50,000 times. You're not trying to do, you're just telling me what you think and that's it.
Speaker 1:Well and see then to. I find it fascinating because in the age that we grew up, in the 70s and the 80s, that didn't happen, no, it weren't all these disclaimers.
Speaker 2:But? But then I saw everything the other way around. It was oh here, listen to this, here, listen to that, listen to this person. Right, listen to these idiots over here. Read this book, read this book. Read this book over here, because it tells you some stuff that this book didn't Right. Again, that was all going on. It was we were communicating, it was trying to overdo it Right.
Speaker 1:But again, and no point in there was there were there any disclaimers that you know? Oh, we're not trying to convert people, or we're not trying to do this, or there were no disclaimers.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It was read this book. Okay Well, I didn't get anything out of that book. Okay Well, try this book, try this book.
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 1:Listen to this person. Maybe you'll get something out of them. Nothing. And now, all of a sudden, we have to have a disclaimer for everything.
Speaker 2:Right, you have to sit there and go. Well, yeah, nothing wrong with books written by women for women. I don't care, they're just.
Speaker 1:So, but that's my point is. My point is I think it's just become so commonplace.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know that we can get rid of them.
Speaker 2:And why in the world do they suddenly have to become this negative? I don't know. Do you see what I'm saying? Why is it that negative? How Well, again, like like I just did, I'm not putting down books written by women. Yeah, it's always done in a negative connotation that somehow we are dumping on somebody else on something else because we're building something else up.
Speaker 1:Well, I think I think in the case of that it's we've become a little defensive.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:That we've. You know, sometimes you get attacked so many times because of maybe not something you said, but how you said it. The tone may have come across as judgmental or accusatory or aggressive, or something that you just got attacked for, and then all of a sudden it's oh well, I've become apologetic about that now, and so I feel like I have to give a disclaimer. I understand that my voice may be a little offensive to somebody, but I promise you I'm not trying to do this or I'm not trying to do that.
Speaker 2:I have to ask and I'm going to put this up and all right, should we try to promote a no warning month? Can I like the no shave? Oh, challenging all the pagan podcasters out there. Try it one month, all your videos. You cannot give out any warnings.
Speaker 1:You can't give out any disclaimers, no disclaimers, everything has to be implied.
Speaker 2:Implied, automatically implied. I wonder if that would work. I wonder if we could get a challenge like that. I don't know. I mean we might be able to get Jay and Blaze and maybe Blue Sage to help, but I think it would be interesting. We've never done a challenge and I just thought about this one.
Speaker 1:I tell you what. We'll put a survey up on YouTube.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And even if you're listening through iHeartRadio or Spotify or whatever, go to the YouTube channel. Take the survey.
Speaker 2:Okay, we could put the survey on Twitter.
Speaker 1:How about we do that? We'll put it on the Twitter.
Speaker 2:We'll put it on the Twitter. It's got a 70-year-old Facebook. Can you call up the Google and find it?
Speaker 1:So yeah, we'll put it up on Twitter. Go to Twitter. Take the survey.
Speaker 2:I don't know what we would call it. I don't know. Let's see if there's even an interest.
Speaker 1:If there's an interest, we'll put the challenge up we can call it Implied December.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, just say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's already no this and that for November or so.
Speaker 2:So let's just everything's implied Okay and especially good for the Christmas, because again you get to look at everybody. When people look at you and go have a merry Christmas, it's implied that they mean that honestly and want you to have a good holiday season. Yeah, okay, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll do it Again. I don't know how far it'll go, but shit won't hurt to try, right, let's have fun with it.
Speaker 2:Come on, I mean again, like I said, I find it aggravating because I catch myself doing it and I'm like always going not again.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to have to, well see, I think that's going to be an issue, especially in the beginning, even if we, even if, even if it's just us doing it. Yeah, I think it's going to be an issue in the beginning, because we're really going to have to think about not doing that.
Speaker 2:Not doing it because again you're, we're sitting here and we have to talk about these conversations. And yes, in the back of my head every so often I felt, coming up the way I'm saying this could come off To someone else's way. So now I need to place this caveat at the end of it Instead of just sitting there going hey, everybody, you know what the caveats just always there right, it should be.
Speaker 1:I mean this like I said before, that's the way it was.
Speaker 2:Because it's gotten so bad. I've seen podcasters. That's their introduction. That's how again it's not welcome to pagan kind of it is. Remember, you know, everybody has their own.
Speaker 1:Maybe, maybe we need to just change our intro and say welcome to pagan coffee talk. If you don't walk away offended. We haven't done that way. Everybody knows exactly what they're getting into. There will be no disclaimers. There will be no warnings.
Speaker 2:There, will you know, there could be dog whistles and all sorts of right.
Speaker 1:All the little catchphrases that are out nowadays. We're gonna have a little bit of everything, that's it.
Speaker 2:I'm not a coffee, I'm done.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan coffee talk is brought to you by life temple and seminary. Please visit us at life temple seminary org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and reddit.
Speaker 3:Hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our days. So walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days. So walk with me till morning.