Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Sacred Time Wasters: The Frustrating Reality of "PST"
Punctuality isn't just about watching the clock—it's about respect, consideration, and the seriousness with which we approach our spiritual practice. In this candid conversation, we dive into the frustrating reality of "Pagan Standard Time," that all-too-familiar phenomenon where rituals, classes, and gatherings start an hour or two later than scheduled, with little to no communication about the delay.
We explore how this cultural pattern undermines the pagan community's credibility and creates real barriers for participation. For practitioners with families, jobs, and responsibilities, these unpredictable delays make attendance nearly impossible. When someone drives 45 minutes to attend your ritual only to find it's been postponed without notice or canceled altogether, we're not just wasting their time—we're showing disrespect for their dedication to the path.
The problem extends beyond event scheduling into communication generally, with many pagan organizations failing to respond to inquiries in timely ways. We suggest practical solutions, like establishing a 24-hour response rule and committing to starting events at their published times. Most importantly, we challenge the community to consider whether our casual relationship with time reflects a casual relationship with our spiritual practice itself. Is paganism something we do only when the mood strikes, or is it truly integrated into our daily lives? Even five minutes of consistent practice each day demonstrates more commitment than sporadic attendance at seasonal events.
Join us for this thought-provoking discussion about reliability, courtesy, and what it means to put our spiritual practice first. Let us know your thoughts and experiences with PST—has it affected your participation in community events? What solutions have you found that work? Together, we can create a more considerate, accessible pagan community that honors both the divine and each other.
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Speaker 2:Let's talk about a subject we're going to piss off a lot of people about. Probably Alright, it's called Pagan Standard Time. Alright, would you like to explain to people what we are talking about when we are talking about Pagan Standard Time?
Speaker 1:Sure, pagan standard time. Sure have you ever been to a public ritual and they say this class is going to happen at this hour or ritual starts at? Seven, or this event will start at this time right, and then an hour, hour and a half, two hours later, things are finally getting started. Maybe, maybe that's pagan standard time, all right, and I think this applies to not only events and stuff like that, but it also applies to I see it rolling over into people's lives as well yeah we'll get to that yeah, well, I mean again, and I'm not I'm not excusing us either because again, setting up like first degree classes is hard to do.
Speaker 2:When you're sitting there and you get a new student, interview them and then a month later somebody else goes. I want to start, right, you know, and then the next month you got another person, I want to start and you, you want to, kind of crabbing these people all in one class, you do and it's hard to this is not the pagan, that this is not pagan standard time as far as I'm concerned, because that's a more of a, that's a logistics and getting everybody on the same page okay, but that's one side of this.
Speaker 1:Right could be perceived as pagan standard time, because people don't see the other side of what's going on right and this brings a whole nother realm to this, to this conversation yeah that people don't think about, because sometimes it is nothing but logistics.
Speaker 2:It's that that is the hold up right, I mean, we're not talking about anything fancy or anything like that. Now again, don't get me wrong. There are some people who don't start ritual until the spirit moves them, right, I mean, I don't know how to explain that. They could be sitting there for full moon and waiting until the mood hits, could be. But here's what makes all this bad is people have lots. Yep, people plan things, yep. It is so freaking common in the pagan community at large. Oh well, I was going to show up for this event, or I was going to go do this, and you know the information was supposed to be out, this is, and you can't get a hold of anybody, right, you know? And then, at the last minute, they open up everything for.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I specifically remember being at an event, I believe Lady Keegan. I went with Lady Keegan Right and we were there and we wanted to stay for the ritual and the brochure that they handed out to everybody said it would happen at this time. Well, that time rolled around and nothing was happening. People weren't gathering around the circle space, they weren't prepping the space. You didn't see anybody doing anything other than what they'd been doing all day, and that was conversing with other people, shopping, going to whatever little class was there. And I stopped and I asked somebody. I was like, hey, I thought ritual was going to be at this time. Oh, it's been moved. Well, you didn't tell anybody.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Why didn't you make an announcement?
Speaker 2:Why don't y'all have a schedule board up somewhere for when changes happen? You can.
Speaker 1:Right and so I don't, but now this was probably 30 to 45 minutes that it took me to find somebody to answer this question.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean so again, in my eyes, pagan standard time. So I don't and we're not talking about fashionably late like 10, 15 minutes, whatever. That could purely just be a logistical issue.
Speaker 2:I mean again, ritual starting five minutes late. I'm not going to set my hair on fire over, but when ritual's two hours late, yeah, that seems to be an issue.
Speaker 1:That seems to be an issue. I don't understand the mentality behind this. Is it just well, we're just being carefree and you know we're going to let the spirit move us? Or is it just?
Speaker 2:being lazy. Well, I mean, that's kind of like. You know. I've heard of temples where people show up for ritual and the high priestess apparently was sick and then told everybody to just go home.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. So again there is this. I mean I realize the majority of us are doing this in people's homes and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:All right. I mean, there's a ritual coming up here soon in which our priestess will be out of town. Right, we do ritual at her house. I have to show up early. We're still doing ritual, I don't. And we're still going to be doing it on time, right, or at our specific time. We say seven o'clock for us.
Speaker 1:We usually do seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, but what's so hard about that?
Speaker 1:for us. We usually do seven, yeah you know. But what's so hard about that? I don't know. Like I said, I don't, I don't fully understand it. I'm sure there's got to be a reason behind it, whether it like I said, whether it be just well.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'll admit we're waiting for the spirit to move us right. I mean, I'll admit it. I mean, most of my jobs have been logistics, so doing this stuff's not that hard right.
Speaker 1:Well, and see, even even before I started in on this path, I was. I was the type of person where you tell me something starts at five o'clock. I'm gonna be there 15 minutes early yeah if I have an interview scheduled for 7 o'clock in the morning, guess what? I'm probably going to be there around 6.30 so I can find parking, allow for any traffic issues, anything like that, and then I've got to allow for getting lost in the hospital or wherever it is I'm interviewing. Yeah, I got to allow time for that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'm sorry when these people, when we have these events and stuff like that and people don't do things on time, nobody ever seems to in the pagan community ever looks at it as, oh, we're inconveniencing everybody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and well and honestly, I don't hear a lot of people complaining about it either, so that makes me think this is something that they do.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it has become so prominent, and so it is a stereotype of the pagan community.
Speaker 1:It has become a stereotype, it's just it, and so do you think it's also become something that people just eh, okay, whatever.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they don't complain, and they don't complain, and they don't. I'm sorry. People have lives. You got kids, family, work, travel yeah and all this other stuff. And if you run the temple and you just decide not to do ritual, you know what about all these other people who keep on showing up?
Speaker 1:right, I mean last, mean last that they heard ritual was going to happen, it was going to start at such and such time, such time. So they showed up early, whatever, just to find out it's been canceled. Right To me that seems Well and for us. I'm not going to say selfish, because a lot of what we do is selfish, but it just seems like it's inconsiderate.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because some people travel 30, 45 minutes to get to your ritual.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. Going to ritual, going to a pagan church or temple or whatever requires the majority of times requires some traveling. It does, and I'm sorry that that is a level of dedication that you should honor, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're going to have to cancel ritual, that's one thing. But let somebody know Something If you've got folks traveling to your house for ritual and you're saying I can't do this tonight, I'm sick or whatever, I'm contagious, right, Whatever the reason, just reach out to your group and say hey look, I'm sorry, but this is the situation. No ritual tonight. I mean.
Speaker 2:I have medical issues and blah, blah, blah, and there are just times I cannot physically go to ritual, right, I'm just in too much pain and I mean I'm normally picking up the phone calling up the lady going hey, today's a bad day for me, unfortunately, and I won't be there, right, but if we're teaching class that day, I've got to go anyway, mm-hmm, because I made a promise to teach these classes and be there at this specific time. Absolutely, yeah. So, and again, we're back to the classes. If I don't do my classes on time, these people's schedules are messed up, exactly, yeah, especially if we're doing doing like classes on the weekends or something like that. Where in the world they got other things to do, you know? There's kids baseball games, there's soccer, I mean Right. So what's the problem? I don't know. You know, is this something that we got started in the habit of and we just continue to do it to this day? Probably.
Speaker 1:Probably. I mean, it just seems like people are just so nonchalant about it and I think that needs to change. If we really want to convey a positive image towards paganism, then we need to be not saying we need to be completely structured. There is some freedom to what we do and we like that, but I think it comes back to keeping your word.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:If you say ritual's gonna happen at seven, ritual happens at seven. Right. If you say class is going to happen at 7, ritual happens at 7. Right. If you say class is going to happen at 5.30, then class happens at 5.30.
Speaker 2:Well see, it's just like we've always had an unspoken rule In Temple when we get an email, somebody has to reply to that email within 24 hours. Within 24 hours, yes, because again, there's a lot of places where I've emailed and never heard anything back. You don't even know if the temple's even still open. I know you know so because nobody ever took their information down from one of these websites or whatever. I don't.
Speaker 1:Well and in all honesty, I will admit sometimes that doesn't happen all the time. I will admit sometimes that doesn't happen all the time.
Speaker 2:But I try my best when I'm the one replying.
Speaker 1:I try my best to one apologize for the delay, not trying to make excuses, but just saying hey look, I didn't get back to you in a reasonable amount of time and I apologize for that, but let's continue our conversation, right Right, you had an interest in this. What can we do for you?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But I do my best and that's the promise that I've made to myself and to the coven. I do my best to respond within that 24 hours, but again, it's considerate it's.
Speaker 2:Considerate, I mean any response you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it could be anything. Hey, I'll get back to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, We've seen your email, read it. I haven't had to really write down Richard's response Anything as long as it's a response. Right, I mean. So yes, we did get your email, we have read it.
Speaker 1:I mean it's a simple fix.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean it seems to be the courteous thing to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like I said, I think somehow or another we need to change that mentality.
Speaker 2:How many more people would actually come to rituals? I mean, that's the point. At the end of the day, the pagan religions are about doing the ritual itself. That's part of the point of all of this. So we have pagans running around who never go to ritual. Would they go to, or only go to, ritual once a year or during one of these?
Speaker 1:festivals or stuff like that. That's an interesting question. Is it because of?
Speaker 2:The structure because they can't get there Do you understand what I'm saying, is it? Because of the lack of structure. Sure that causes people just to kind of I give up. I keep on showing up for ritual and then it's two hours later and I got to go home and I can't.
Speaker 1:Right, and I don't have time. I don't have time. I don't have time for this. I've got to put my kids in bed, I've got animals to feed, I've got other obligations, so again, so is that a reason?
Speaker 2:And if it is, would people be showing up at temples and covens and all this more if there were more of a set time? Hey, ritual's going to start at 7.
Speaker 1:I don't care if you're in the mood or not, I think they would yeah you know, but, like I said, I think I think changing to that type of mentality would change the mindset of other people towards paganism yes to where it's well. Okay, so it may not be exactly what I believe, but they do have some structure yes, but other than other than. Oh well, you know, I'm just, I got my head in the clouds.
Speaker 2:Because wouldn't you ask the question if you're this disorganized on this, how disorganized are you on your religion itself? Right? If you're going to be teaching me your religion, how disorganized are you, Right? Do you even have a class structure? Do you have certain goals?
Speaker 1:And don't even get me started on those people that say well, this is all part of chaos, right? Well, yeah, it is chaos, and guess what? It's not working for you.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean again, when people talk about the chaos and magic and all of this, most people I don't think actually understands what that chaos really is. I don't think they do. It's not as powerful as they think it is and it's really hard to control?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and it can disrupt your life if you're not careful.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because, guess what, it kind of rubs off on you. Well, I mean, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:It's one of them things you can sit there and I know people don't like throwing things away, but yet at some point or another you're going to have to go and clean out your house or you're going to have a hoarding problem you know I don't mean this is the perfect time of year to do it. Everybody's doing spring cleaning anyway anyway, but again, this is where in the world we see the same thing being led into your personal life.
Speaker 2:It's easy to put stuff off. I put off ritual. I can do this Because then I also have to ask is how important is it to you? If it's so easily, I can do it next week instead.
Speaker 1:Well, now my only thing about that is is there are I know that there are people with certain conditions depression, things like that, where sometimes things get difficult to do and we're not talking about that. By no means are we talking about that. I suffer with that.
Speaker 2:But I hate to be this way.
Speaker 1:I've had some issues that make me not very motivated.
Speaker 2:Right, but I'm just saying but going to ritual should motivate you in and of itself.
Speaker 1:Well and see, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:If you are a depressed person, you are depressed. Maybe ritual is what you need, Right.
Speaker 1:There are lots of times that I force myself to do things, and it's not because I don't want to do them, it's because I physically don't have the motivation to do it. Right and I have to force myself to do it and I always especially when it comes to ritual class anything coven related. Anytime that happens, I always feel better.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a concept in all of this that we sort of talk about in Temple and I know a lot of people get really upset when I talk about this but in our philosophy, your religion should come first. Yes, your life should interrupt your religion, not your religion interrupting your life, absolutely All right. You know, we're not pagans just on the holidays on full moons, absolutely Alright. We're not pagans just on the holidays on full moons. And just like Christians aren't just Christians just on Sundays, right, even though a few probably do, or it kind of seems that way.
Speaker 1:Or it seems that way, but that's the case for any sect of religion.
Speaker 2:Right, buddhism, taoism, whatever you do have those people, but I don't think they're the majority well, see, none normally when we bring this up, that this has to become first in your life. Your religion should be the first thing in your life that you think about when you get up and all that. I hear it, all you know, oh, but you know my kids and my family and this and that and those are interrupting your spiritual growth.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the thing you can tie that in with your kids. You can tie that in with your family. All you have to do is take those ethics, take everything that you're learning, even if it's just something you've read out of a book. When you take that and you apply it to your life, then it becomes part of your life.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean, I'm sorry. Just setting a time and a place just to do your meditations helps out so much because you have a specific time and a specific place and you're always there at that time and you sit down and you always sit in that spot.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the thing, Most people get up and have a cup of coffee, or they have a cup of tea or whatever. Right, if you're one of those people and you're fortunate enough not to have any interruptions during that time, guess what? There's your meditation, there's your meditation time. Do a simple affirmation in the mornings and look, it's that simple to tie it into your life.
Speaker 2:Look it's that simple, to tie it into your life. And again, but again, just do it. Five minutes is better than no minutes, right, you know, two minutes, one minute is better than no minutes. It's a problem in the pagan community. I'm not sure how we stop it, but to at least start the conversation. Can we stop this whole pagan standard time crap, right, and start taking our religion serious?
Speaker 1:It would be nice it would. It would be nice. I don't know how we're going to change it, though If you got any suggestions, please submit those. We'll talk about them in another episode. How about that Sounds good? Just, I mean, Want some coffee. I want some coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary.
Speaker 3:Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks.
