Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Faith in the Open: Navigating Public Displays of Religion in Society
The boundary between personal faith and public expression creates some of our society's most charged interactions. Whether it's the coworker quietly praying before meals, street preachers with megaphones, or religious protesters at community events, these displays spark reactions ranging from respectful acknowledgment to visceral opposition.
The conversation explores religious expression as existing on a spectrum, and questions where reasonable boundaries might lie. Most importantly, we highlight the reciprocal nature of religious freedom: the moment we attempt to restrict one group's expression, we potentially compromise everyone's right to practice according to their conscience.
What emerges is a thoughtful examination of tolerance in a pluralistic society. Sometimes the most powerful response to religious displays we find uncomfortable isn't confrontation but simply continuing about our day; recognizing that freedom means accepting expressions we may disagree with. As we put it: "Religion is like shoes. Everybody needs it. It's just finding what fits." The wisdom lies in allowing others to find their fit without judgment while maintaining healthy boundaries for ourselves.
Join our conversation about navigating this delicate balance and subscribe to hear more discussions that bridge spiritual practices with everyday life challenges.
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Alright, so here's something that's popped up, okay. Public displays of religion.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It happens all the time. It's like public displays of affection, right? Some people don't like it, some people do, some people don't mind it, right, some people are neither here nor there about it, right, some people are neither here nor there about it, right? So, when we talk about public displays of religion, what are some examples of this that you think are prevalent to this conversation?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we got a variety of situations. You got the lady at work who always prays right before meals.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Again, it's still everybody knows what she's doing, she's not bothering anybody, she's not talking out loud or anything like that. She's praying, all right. Then you have, like what the the street preachers? Okay, all right. And in the parks and stuff like that in certain places and all that just out there preaching. You know, that's like people going to the abortion places and praying, okay, yeah. Again. Public displays of religion Again, like you said, some people like this, some people find it annoying.
Speaker 1:I think we mainly find it annoying when it gets in our way.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, For me it does anyway, Otherwise it doesn't annoy way. Well, yeah, for me it does anyway, so otherwise it doesn't annoy me, okay, okay, but then this would also be probably protesters too, some protesters.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because at pagan events sometimes you get Christian protesters Right and we know why they're there.
Speaker 1:But Right, okay, so you mentioned the street preachers. Yeah, let's go with that one for a minute, all right. Yes, I see that as a public display of religion, but I also see that as proselytizing.
Speaker 2:Well, again, part of the Christian belief is to it is.
Speaker 1:So can we really fault them for that? Because they're doing what they're supposed to Right. They're doing what they believe.
Speaker 2:God commanded them to do. I really don't have a problem with this, but I know that there are people out there that do and will go ape when they run across these people. I'm sorry. The pagan community does have some Karens.
Speaker 1:Really, really Did.
Speaker 2:I just say that out loud.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean no, I know they do yeah because here's my question which is worse?
Speaker 2:them actually the preachers doing this, or the our pagan little Karens going ape over all this stuff? Where you know what? If you just would have kept on walking and just let them be, the universe would have gone on.
Speaker 1:Well, and again something like this, and we're going there again. This falls under freedom of religion, right? So if you're going to take away somebody's right to stand on the street corner and preach their religion, right, or try to stop people and talk to them about their religion, then that's going to stop us from doing our public rituals, right, but?
Speaker 2:but I'm taking pride, no, no wait a minute, wait a minute, no, no. I have never seen, I have never been out into the park and then suddenly spontaneously, oh hey, I'm going to just do ritual right now. Well, no, are you? I mean. Well, no, but I'm saying Because we don't prophetize.
Speaker 1:No, but if you take away somebody's right to do something, Right. Then you're also taking away your rights to do something.
Speaker 2:Right, and that I understand. I'm just saying, but I guess that's why I do Do you think we might find it a little bit more annoying? Because we don't and they do.
Speaker 1:Could be.
Speaker 2:Are you with what I'm trying to ask?
Speaker 1:there I mean. Well, you know, I remember a time being out at a at a gay pride event.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And there was a street preacher there and there were a lot of people giving him a hard time. Yeah, I personally had no problem with him being there. Well, no, I mean, even though he might have been using a bullhorn, he might have been loud, whatever, it didn't affect me.
Speaker 2:It was no louder than everybody else. Right, it was no louder than the bands. Or it was no louder than the bands.
Speaker 1:Right, because you got all the music going on. You got the crowd noise, you got all kinds of stuff going on.
Speaker 2:But see, I'm back to this. Why not just ignore it? Why not just walk by? Exactly? Why sit there and glitter bomb? I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand if you're sitting there and you're just having a conversation with them.
Speaker 1:No, I get it If you're having a conversation with somebody, that's different.
Speaker 2:That's different.
Speaker 1:That's like you and me sitting down and having a talk.
Speaker 2:Right, Right. I mean I have no problem sitting down talking to Christians and just having a nice conversation with them.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not.
Speaker 2:All right there's. I don't see what the problem is.
Speaker 1:I know quite a few Christians that are very nice that way Well and you know, we lived in a little town near the Virginia state line and there was this sweet, sweet woman who came by at least once a week or so. Jehovah's. Witness stand outside talk to her for five, ten minutes. She was so sweet, didn't bother me one bit that she came by and she didn't really preach.
Speaker 2:I think she knew we were gay but she never really would preach to us. She'd hand us a pamphlet, invite us to church and then leave. Yeah and alright, or she might. I think she offered to pray with us once yeah no, big deal Like yeah
Speaker 1:sure. Sure, whatever you know it makes her feel better. I wasn't, I had no problem with that it's not something we do.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:We're not going to go out knocking on doors.
Speaker 2:No, I mean you don't. Like I said earlier, it's not like too many pagans are out on their street corner thumping their books of shadows. You know I mean. Mean when was the last time somebody?
Speaker 1:walked up to you and go have you've got an activist group who's willing to do that? Then I think you could probably do it, just to show what we can do this too right you know we can get up here and prophetize right. Is it something I'm gonna condone? No, no. Is it something that I'm gonna do?
Speaker 2:no, but most pagan and I'm very broad terms here all right, and most pay that. Hence the reason I keep on using pagan and most pagan culture around here that we were involved in prophesying is really not done. We don't know, we don't even think about it, you know. The thought is is people should try. We want those who are searching us out, not the other way, which is kind of weird compared to the other religions, because it's like the other religions go out to find you again, to be a fisherman or right to, and we're like no, we want people who seek us out.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that's because we see this as a personal journey, right? This is not something like when people come to us hey, we're going to teach you a way to do this. This is not the one and only way, right? There are many ways to practice this faceted religion.
Speaker 2:When we teach you our circle casting, that is for our temple, and it's what we do, and it's what we always do, so we all are on the same page.
Speaker 1:Right. But my point is when we teach them that we specifically say these things because it is a personal thing. If you go home and you're going to cast circle in your house and do your own little ritual, we expect that you're just going to take and you're going to form your own way of doing things.
Speaker 2:We're not telling you. You have to do our way if you want to. Right, but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:We expect that you're going to take stuff from us. You're going to take stuff, way, if you want to, Right, but that's what I'm saying. We expect that you're going to take stuff from us. You're going to take stuff from what you've read or maybe you saw it a public ritual and you're going to say, oh, I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to incorporate that into what I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We fully expect you're going to do that. Nothing wrong with it. That's actually probably one of the best ways to practice this religion. You find what works for you. Why? Because it's a personal journey.
Speaker 2:Well I, as opposed to the other way, where we physically sort of all know what's going on. That way, the next people that come in, they're going to be taught the exact same way and there's going to be less conversation inside circle. It makes it flow easier as a group. But to sit there and to sit there and go, this has to be the way I do this, in no other way I don't yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't see that either, but with other public displays like the, the lady at work who prays before she eats, right, right, or you may see her in the morning and she'll be in the break room and before she starts work she'll say a little prayer.
Speaker 2:Well, I've seen a few of them sit there and read their Bible Right.
Speaker 1:They're sitting there quiet.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's still a public display, but they're trying to be to themselves.
Speaker 2:Let's put this on a scale. If we were looking at public displays of affection, this would be like holding hands, sitting there reading your Bible and praying to you. You're not really. I mean, we're not talking about the couple that are on top of each other and looks like they're about to perform some type of coitus in the middle of the store or something. Again, this is sort of how we're gauging this. So should we? Do you think we should? Why do you think we downgrade this so much? Why do we look at it completely opposite? Because some people would. I could sit there and say some people would argue the podcast itself is a form of profitizing.
Speaker 1:I could see that. I don't think it is simply because we're just trying to put information out there, right, and it's not. Our purpose is not to convert people. Our purpose is for anybody who's actively looking for information, right, and maybe we've got some Christian listeners who are just curious about the religion itself Right, we're just trying to. It's educational, it's not, but I could easily see how.
Speaker 2:See, because I firmly believe that religion's like shoes Everybody needs it. It's just finding what fits Right. Not all traditions are for everyone.
Speaker 1:Mm-mm.
Speaker 2:Absolutely All right. There's how many different forms of Christianity, from Catholicism all the way down to four-square gospel snake handlers Right, all the way down to four square gospel snake handlers Right. Why does everybody seem to think that everybody has to fit in one nice little neat category of religion? See, I don't know, are you with me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know why that's never made any sense to me. Well, I can't say never, Because growing up and the way I was brought up, that's kind of the way I believed I believed that everybody should fit into Christianity. And then the older I got, the more I realized okay, well, there's different sects of Christianity. So you know, according to different sects of christianity, catholics or not christians but, whatever, that's a different argument yeah, but I'm not going down that path.
Speaker 1:No I I always considered catholics a part of christianity, said what, but? But to just come, they were completely different from what I was brought up in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so seeing that and recognizing that makes you start to realize we can't all fit into one shoe, as you graciously put it. We can't all fit into one shoe.
Speaker 2:No, no. So why do we force people? Why is it so prevalent? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think it's those religions have been bastardized. Because, at the end of the day, nobody's 100% sure about any of this.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean I realize the Christians go no, no, no, no, and I understand that they believe. I mean, just like I mean I realize the Christians go no, no, no, no, and I understand that they believe. I mean, just like I believe what I believe. But I just, I cannot sit there and think of a world where there aren't multiple different belief systems.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it boils down to that we don't really have scientific evidence to back up any one single religion. Right evidence to back up any one single religion right. So therefore, we have to kind of, we have to kind of treat it like a radio and we have to.
Speaker 2:I know I'm with some people are going to like the countryside of things some people are going to like, the more you know I mean because the only, the only other way we find out is hey, once we die, right, or if one of the big religions prophecies finally come true, right, because we don't even have prophecies or anything about, because we don't think there's anything wrong with the world. No, I think there's things wrong with humanity but that's a different story yeah I'm right on board with you, right there.
Speaker 2:It's never made any sense to me, so I don't know how we fix it though. Well, I mean, I don't think there is a way to fix it, you know, because again, there would be so much of Christianity that they would have to change to stop doing that Right. There would be so much of the Muslim doing that right.
Speaker 1:There would be so much of the muzzle that, and you know there's, there's other, there's other displays that we do as well. I know you and I, we, we have a pendant on our necklace right a lot of pagans do a lot of. Yeah, we're not big on the pagan jewelry, but we do have one thing that we wear, so it's not like we're going decked out in pentagrams.
Speaker 2:They're not hubcaps sides. You're doing shock value the jewel and whatever else, right.
Speaker 1:I think there's a fine line there. Keep it tasteful and don't do it for shock value, and I think it'll be just fine. It'll be just like mama used to wear her cross all the time.
Speaker 2:Well, see, I won't even say it has to be tasteful, uh-huh. But you know you do you boo. But I would rather you just not do it for attention, I would rather you not do it specifically just to get attention.
Speaker 1:Well, then that's my personal opinion, because I would prefer tasteful.
Speaker 2:Well then it becomes a conversation more about okay, so what's tasteful?
Speaker 1:Oh well, how about you show it to me and I'll tell you if it's tasteful or not?
Speaker 2:Oh, is this the whole porn thing?
Speaker 1:know what, if I see it again, that's just me, just me so when you email. Be sure to mention oswin, because that's all me. I'm just saying. I'm just saying you know harvard valley pta.
Speaker 2:You know your shirt and your skin, oswin, because that's all me. I'll take your complaints.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying you know Harbor Valley PTA you know your shirt and your skin and if you don't know that reference, look up the song, you'll get it. But I mean, there's other ways that you can do your public displays and still be not inconveniencing anyone, right, like nobody, hardly nobody says anything about my necklace.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean how inconvenient is it to be Muslim on an airplane when you have to pray? See, you know, and I get it, it's part of your religion, see, and I get it, it's part of your religion and I realize you want to do it, but you can't really block the aisle of the plane, right? And I'm not sure how long that lasts or how long they have to. I'm not my field of expertise.
Speaker 1:So where do we draw the line with public displays, or do we? I don't think we do. Do we just ignore it and go about our business?
Speaker 2:I think it's easier just to ignore it and move on.
Speaker 1:All right, instead of making a big deal out of it, right?
Speaker 2:I mean again, it's like if you don't like paganism, why are you listening to a pagan podcast? I mean, if you don't like Christianity, why are you listening to a pagan podcast? I mean, if you don't like christianity, why are you listening to a christian podcast? Right, I'm sorry. That's that whole hate watch thing. Just stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's stupid rage porn rage.
Speaker 2:That is the most stupidest thing ever. But, like you said, like at the gay pride and stuff, if people would just walk by them and just ignore them, let them talk, whatever, just keep on going.
Speaker 1:Well, and then too, when you're dealing with family members, I remember going. We went out to eat with my mom and her sister and some other friends, and they were all, they're all Christian.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we were at this table. It was probably about six of us and everybody wanted to hold hands and pray before eating and I just kind of rolled my eyes a little bit, but you know what? Hey, I held hands with somebody.
Speaker 2:You know? Well, I mean, you know that's going to family dinners and stuff like that, and they want to bless the meal at the Thanksgiving and all that. You just sort of bow your head, keep your mouth shut going. Okay, yeah, it is. It is a blessing, right, you know? I mean, considering we've talked about the source and our concept of it, why in the world are you going to peel your face off just because they did christ? I mean, it's not like we can't summon christ inside our circles too.
Speaker 1:I mean right still, I mean, like you said, it's a blessing, and you know we do our blessings in private. Some people don't care where they do their blessings, and that's fine.
Speaker 2:You know, but yeah, no, no Street preachers and stuff like that, and you know, just let them be, Just let them be. I mean that's just like protesters, let them protest. I mean don't let them be. I mean that's like you know, that's just like protesters, let them protest. I mean don't let them get violent or whatever right, make sure the police, whatever you know.
Speaker 1:But there's, we have the right to protest stuff if we don't like it well and and as far as us doing our own public displays of religion, I'm sorry, sorry, we have gathers. I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to stop you.
Speaker 1:No, you want to go out and wear your little witch hat and bedecked out in pentacles and pentagrams. I'm not going to agree with it, but you go right ahead. It's your freedom to do that Exactly. They have their freedom, we have ours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like I said, I think just ignore them, walk on and just be nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't be hateful.
Speaker 2:You know there's, no, there's no need for that. No, they're out there, we work with them, we talk to them all the time Better yet try to understand where they're coming from. Yes, how about you do that? Or how about the fact that you understand that they believe in their beliefs just as much as you believe in yours, mm-hmm, and maybe you should respect the fact that they believe in it that much, right?
Speaker 1:Because let me tell you what it takes some balls to stand out on a street corner and be a preacher. It really does.
Speaker 2:It takes some balls to get up there and do that. So how about you respect that? Yeah, at least.
Speaker 1:So you ready for some coffee? I am ready for some coffee. All right, thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media.
Speaker 3:Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit. We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days so walk with me till morning.
