Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Words Have Power: The Subtle Language Choices That Shape Our Spiritual Practice
The disconnect between our spiritual language and our physical practice often reveals profound misunderstandings within the pagan community. When we constantly speak of "walking our paths" yet kneel at altars that barely reach our knees, we're embodying contradictory spiritual principles without even realizing it.
This thought-provoking conversation challenges a fundamental oversight many modern pagans make: witches don't kneel before their gods. Unlike traditions where followers are considered unworthy to look upon the face of divinity, paganism emphasizes partnership and equality. We stand with our deities, so why are so many using altars that force them into positions of submission?
Beyond altar ergonomics, we explore how surface-level engagement with teachings has eroded authentic practice. The skimming culture fostered by social media has trained practitioners to miss crucial nuances in specific word choices that carry significant theological implications. When we fail to truly listen – to our teachings, our priests, and to each other – we miss the essence of what makes our spiritual paths meaningful.
The episode also addresses the breakdown in student-teacher relationships within covens. Where once students would regularly engage elders with questions about craft practices, today's practitioners often hesitate to reach out. This communication breakdown prevents the deep transmission of knowledge that traditionally characterized pagan learning and stunts spiritual growth.
Whether you're a seasoned witch or just beginning your journey, this conversation will make you reconsider how attentively you're engaging with your tradition. Are you truly listening to the specific language and teachings being offered? Are you willing to question inconsistencies and adjust your understanding as you learn? Walking your path means standing tall before your gods – both literally and figuratively.
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Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk. So what's on your mind today? Let's talk about people not listening.
Speaker 2:People not listening okay, I'm going to be very specific about this type. Alright, alright, priests and priestesses walk around all the time in the pagan community and we keep on talking about walking someone's path. Yeah, alright, walking the wheel of the circle, right, all right, and on all these things, you keep on hearing us use the word walk. Now let's jump to a completely different topic. That makes no sense at this moment.
Speaker 2:All right, okay but yet I keep on seeing people going out buying these little short altars that are like two feet tall, right, all right, and at no point did anybody sit there and go. Hmm, if I'm supposed to be walking and I have an altar, how in the world do I walk my path on my knees when I'm kneeling at my altar?
Speaker 1:That is a good question.
Speaker 2:I don't think you can how do you walk your path? With your face planted in the ground, because you're unworthy to look upon your God.
Speaker 1:I don't think you can. You can't, that's.
Speaker 2:I mean you're on your knees how can you worship your God if you're too busy trying to cover the top of your head? So where is this disconnect? Witches do not kneel. We don't kneel before our gods. We don't kneel before anyone else, but yet we'll go out, and they'll go out by these two, these damn altars that cause them to kneel.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I guess theoretically you could set that up on something else.
Speaker 2:But if you're doing that, why not just get a taller table?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:Or just use whatever you're putting it on as your altar.
Speaker 2:My problem here isn't the altars themselves, it's the mindset. Why are you kneeling at an altar? It's the mindset. Why are you kneeling at an altar? In Christianity and all these other religions, you're seen as unworthy to be looking upon the face of your God. You are not worthy to see them or be in their presence because you are a lower life form. Now, in paganism we don't think that way.
Speaker 1:Well, the way I grew up in Christianity, it wasn't that you weren't worthy. If you look upon the face, it was that you did it out of respect.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, I was always told if you look upon the, face of God, you will go insane. So therefore, we can't. Well, yeah, hence the reason where, according to Christianity, you can't really even hear the voice of God. He has to have an intermediate there. True, that's where in the world. What's his name the messenger comes from? True, yeah, all right, he's the word of God, he speaks for God. Because we can't hear him, right, we're unworthy of this. All right, again, this is the thought in most of these religions.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and ours is completely different.
Speaker 1:It is completely different.
Speaker 2:We walk with our gods. We look upon their faces. They're not something completely out of our reach or something so far beyond us. No, they're not. Now, when we do talk about the source, we talk about the source being something beyond us, but we mean it as in it is so completely different than us. There's no grasping this concept right. It's slightly different than I'm. Not worthy to look upon the face of my god, right.
Speaker 1:But now, by that token, does that also mean, in your view, right, right? Does that mean that, when you're talking about the source, does that mean we can, we would be able to view the source, we would be able to see?
Speaker 2:well and not go insane or not, I think once. Once a soul gets to a certain point, yes, they can start looking, but that soul would not reincarnate into this world anyway.
Speaker 1:Okay, the reason I ask that is because you mentioned the soul. You said the soul would be able to Right. Christians believe the same thing, because when you die and you go to heaven, you are able to look upon the face of God. Yes, no, yes.
Speaker 2:No, no. From my understanding, once you go to heaven and you worship, you still cannot look upon God. No, you can't you get a new celestial blah, blah, blah body and then you go straight into worship? I've never heard that. It's what I have been told my whole entire life through all of my raising up in Christianity the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2:I've never heard that At the end of the day, nobody, no matter what state that they're in, cannot be allowed to look upon God. Well, that's not what I was told, because we are technically unworthy.
Speaker 1:Again, not what I was taught. So anyway, I was just curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but again the thought there is the same. My point is is still, we talk about walking, but yet nobody has put those two together, right, why?
Speaker 1:I have no idea. All right Again, it doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make sense Because, priests and priestesses, we use certain words on purpose. We want to invoke certain thoughts. Yes, there's a lot of times when we put out posts and stuff like that, people half-ass read them because they're too busy trying to or I already know what in the world it is and rolling their eyes and moving on and not listening to the individual words.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the problem with social media. We're so engrossed in it I mean not engrossed, but we're so inundated with social media on a daily basis that half the time we don't even really read the post, we just kind of skim through them, and if something catches your eye, then you might take some time and actually pay attention to it but again, you're just reading that, if you're just reading the headlines and not the article and the headlines doesn't always portray what the article is actually about, right, but but we assume it does.
Speaker 1:Right, but, like I said, it's because we're so inundated with it now. I mean, in this day and age, it's all about social media.
Speaker 2:I also think there's this whole entire problem where they've come up with this guest reading, trying to teach all these kids speed reading and ways to read faster, and in doing this you sort of do skip a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:All right, but again, one word in the side of a paragraph can change the whole entire meaning of it. And if you're skipping that one word, you could be missing something there Exactly yeah, it's kind of like reading cliff notes.
Speaker 1:We're dating ourselves Kind of like reading cliff notes as opposed to reading the actual book right again there.
Speaker 2:There there are things that might be skipped, which are profound and may be for you, but you didn't because you didn't actually read the book right. So I don't, I don't get this why people don't always listen and get very confused when we sit back and go. But that's not what I said.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, when we say, well, that's not what I said, or you didn't understand what I said, or anything along those lines.
Speaker 2:Or you didn't actually take the time to read every word, you just assumed what in the world it was.
Speaker 1:Or they say this well, I didn't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yet, if you go back and you read what I said, or you go back and you examine what I said, I told you I might regret this later, but I'll give you one more example of what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:I am a full-time priest, correct? You have heard me tell people this more than once.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yet there are members in Temple that will still look at. I don't want to call them and interrupt them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What the f-.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Call me, talk to me, blah, blah, blah. Over and over again. But I don't want to. I don't get the disconnect here, right, the only thing I can think of is when you got that is you just really don't want to. You don't actually want to have a conversation with me. You don't really want to. You just want to bitch about whatever in hell it is Could be. Yeah, you don't actually want to fix it. You don't actually want to do anything Because you didn't take the time, you didn't read what in the world was going on.
Speaker 1:You didn't pick up the phone. But again, how, how do, how do we get people out of that mindset?
Speaker 2:I mean, walk your path, don't just casually stroll through it, don't just half-ass it well, but don't sit there and assume that everything's just going to fall out in the sky in your damn lap right.
Speaker 1:I mean this is, this is a path of work. It's you gotta put the effort in baby, baby.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying, at some point you have to be responsible for yourself, Absolutely. And if I'm having to badger you just to get an answer out of you, that's not teaching. No, it's not.
Speaker 2:That's just aggravation on my part, because I mean you sit there and you try to speak very clearly and yet I still see people sit there and they will walk off and do the complete opposite or something else. It's the same complaint I have from all these people who come in ask me for my advice and then walk out the door and the very next day do the complete opposite. Then why come and ask me for my advice if you're not going to listen to it?
Speaker 1:See that I don't know, but I do think as a teacher, we need you know. If you're a teacher, if you are, um, you know, a coven leader or whatever, I do think you need to take the mentality that I can only teach you so much, right, and then what you do with that information. I can't help you. If you choose not to do anything with that information, that's not my fault. Don't come back and blame me because you don't know something.
Speaker 2:Well, how about can we just be honest about it? If you don't know something, just say you don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, and that too. What do we always tell our students when we first start classes? Don't be afraid to ask questions. The only dumb question is one that's never asked, and how many times you hear that and you go.
Speaker 2:Well, why didn't you answer anything? Oh, I didn't want to look stupid.
Speaker 1:Anybody got any questions?
Speaker 2:Silence, silence, silence.
Speaker 1:Dead, silence, silence.
Speaker 2:I don't want to look stupid, but I'm going to look stupid later when I'm questioned about something. That I can't answer or part of my faith or something, and I really can't answer and I'm stumbling around looking like a complete idiot.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's a real challenge? It really is. But again, walk your path. If you're walking your path, you should be challenging your own notions.
Speaker 2:Well, there's nothing wrong with being stupid. The only thing wrong with being stupid is staying stupid. Yeah, all right, and the only way to stop that is to start asking questions, is to start talking that is, to start asking questions, is to start talking.
Speaker 1:Well, like I said, part of what we teach is to challenge whatever notion is thrown at you, whatever idea, even your own ideas, right, challenge them, prove them, disprove them, do do something sitting on your couch in your own little bubble, you know, and not talking to anyone else is not changing anything.
Speaker 2:You're not actually growing, you're just sitting there in a bubble.
Speaker 1:No, but that's what we try to teach them. And again, you can only do so much, you know. I would say this I've instructed you in the ways that can help you. If you choose not to do shit with them, that is not my fault, that is not a reflection on me.
Speaker 2:Long story short. We went to ritual over at Lady Keegan's house one night.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And she happened to have one of these short altars. Yeah, she had it out. She looked down at me, she looked at the altar, she looked at me. She's like I know, I know it's all I have right now. And we stood around a two-foot table and she kept on having to bend over and do everything.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I believe that night we also wound up sitting on the floor, which you know older generation, not that easy to get up out of the floor.
Speaker 2:But yeah, All right, but again the whole entire thing of me and her in the circle and she heard the whole nine yards, knowing exactly what in the world my problem is the whole entire time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, she said it right off the bat.
Speaker 2:She was like I know I know, don't say a word, don't ask questions. This is what we have to do for tonight. Let's move on.
Speaker 1:But I think, I think something like that if it's a temporary, I'm not so upset, you know, all right. But if it's something that you're, that you're daily doing or that's that is your sacred space, I mean, unless you're sitting down and that's just where you're comfortable. But I don't know about you. I like to move around the altar, I don't.
Speaker 2:I like moving around the altar. I mean, don't get me wrong. Yes, there are times where I have to sit while I'm in circle sure all right, but when I do that, the I'm literally I level with the freaking altar at the top Right, so it's not like I can't see what's going on or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Right, that's how tall our altars are, well, they're working altars, they're working altars. And what do we mean by working altars? Well, it means you're able to move around, you're able to do stuff at this altar.
Speaker 2:You're able to set your tools down and pick your tools up without knocking anything else over, or setting anything on fire, Right, All right. Again, it's not these quote unquote altars that you see where they're really, just shrines to a certain deity.
Speaker 1:Right and again. Nothing wrong with that, but that is not an altar.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:An altar is a working tool. Again, our opinions.
Speaker 3:We get it we understand.
Speaker 1:Just letting you know, for us that is not an altar.
Speaker 2:All right, well, again I also will keep it on this thing about the whole kneeling thing. When a couple years back, where they were going around, you know, are you going to kneel for black lives matter I remember looking at you going.
Speaker 2:I hope they don't run across a pagan I know, right, right A real one, because they'd look at them and go I don't kneel for my gods and walk off, right. So I mean because they have to, because you also have to remember it From what I know, like the viziers and stuff like that, they never really kowtowed to kings either. No, I don't think they did no. So again, this is a longstanding tradition in craft not to kneel, not to take the knee Right. I mean there's a bunch of other reasons inside of traditions that we're not going to talk about, but this is the big one for us. I mean, it drives me up the wall.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know how you change that mindset.
Speaker 2:Well, how do you get people to start realizing? Yes, you need to analyze and sometimes dissect every word on a page. I know it's time consuming and a pain in the butt, but it is being dyslexic and having to learn how to read the way I do. I see're in a world. I have the wrong concept in a book or somewhere because I couldn't read a word not that I didn't know what the word meant or anything. I couldn't read it, so I put something else in there. I thought matched well, perfect example.
Speaker 1:When the harry potter books came out, I remember you were like, oh, I want to read these books, even I wanted to read these books, right, you know. And you'd be sitting there reading and you know, you and I would come out, we'd start talking about and be like, well, what section are you in? And you'd mention somebody's name and I'd be like, who, who? And you're like, well, I don't know how to read it, so I made something up.
Speaker 2:Again, just FYI, dyslexics. Reading names is a very hard thing to do because there's no context to a name, right?
Speaker 1:you can't put a picture to it.
Speaker 2:I can't put a picture to it.
Speaker 1:And your thought process is you put pictures to words, words.
Speaker 2:So again. So I just made up names that I could keep on remembering so I could keep track of them. The h guy keeps on doing this. He's big, he's hairy right.
Speaker 1:But again, that could potentially change an outcome of part of that story, right, because if it's not a name, it might be something else.
Speaker 2:Well, god forbid if the name happens not to fit the character and there's a joke about it running through, that I will never catch it right. So when I look at it this way, this is what y'all were doing and y'all don't have to right. I do it because I have no choice and it drives me up the wall because I know I'm getting information wrong that way. Right. Where's the common sense on this? When are people actually going to start really listening to people again? I don't know. I don't know and questioning and have conversations.
Speaker 1:And I'll admit I've been guilty of it at times and then when I realize what I'm doing, I'm like I'm just being lazy. Yes, I'm not paying attention.
Speaker 2:No, you know. I mean I'm sorry. I sit here and listen to people say this stuff all the time and nine times out of ten I'm sitting back going. You're not really doing anything, you're gaslighting yourself. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm sitting at home and I'm doing this and blah, blah, blah. No, you're not. You're not really doing any of that. Picking up your book of shadows and writing three words down and sitting it down and walking off is not work. Right. Sitting there going hey, you know what I need to learn about this and not picking up a phone and calling an elder and discuss it with them.
Speaker 1:Well, an elder, a classmate, another first degree, you know, a second degree. I mean there's any number of people you can call Well, an elder, a classmate, another first degree, a second degree. I mean there's any number of people you can call If you're a neophyte and you're in a class with other students, pick up the phone, call them and say, hey, I got a question, what was your take?
Speaker 2:on this. Okay, if we're missing the whole walking and kneeling thing in the general populace because you're not catching on to that, what else are y'all missing out on that we're saying to y'all that you're just not paying any attention to. Well, yeah, I mean, come on, y'all miss that, but OK and. But we're not going to correct or change our behavior or anything. We're just going to keep on doing the same thing over and over again, right, and then expect the rest of the world to go along with it well, and, and I think that that's where I hate to be this way.
Speaker 2:My life experience has shown me the world don't work that way no, what I was going to say is is that's where.
Speaker 1:That's where you wind up with people doing things not the proper way or the right way or anything along those lines, but then they go on and they teach other people that way, and then it just keeps getting lazier and lazier and lazier, and then you've completely lost Everything that was actually behind it, right? Because you're half-assing, you're half-assing.
Speaker 2:That's just the way actually behind it, right, because you're half-assing. You're half-assing.
Speaker 1:That's just the way I see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's like sitting there talking and doing a class and you have that one student sitting there, no notes, no, nothing, staring off into space.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Why are you even here? Are you going to tell me you actually give a shit? Is this what you really want? Well, again, we tell everybody we're supposed to judge each other based on our actions. These are the actions I see.
Speaker 1:And it's actions, not necessarily knowledge.
Speaker 2:No, are you?
Speaker 1:actually doing something Right. You may have the knowledge, but if you're not doing anything, what does it matter? I mean and if you don't have the knowledge and you're doing something, ah, that shows me you've got gumption, you've got, you've got the attitude to learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah you, you want you to grow. When you're sitting there and you're talking to people and you're debating this stuff, you're learning.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:But if you don't talk, if you don't debate, if you don't tell people what you do and don't know, nothing's ever going to change.
Speaker 1:And now there's a difference between debate and arguing. Yes, if you're arguing, you're getting nowhere. No Debating, on the other hand, expressing ideas in a calm manner.
Speaker 2:Debating works like this. I sit down and I tell you okay, I believe in A, but for me to believe in A, I need B, c, d and E right here to stabilize this, to show you where in the world I'm coming to this conclusion from. Because, again, that original, that last idea, is made up of multiple ideas and if one of them things are wrong, the whole thing falls apart. Right, and when you're coming up with these theories and stuff like that, you don't always see every fault.
Speaker 1:No, you don't, and the only no.
Speaker 2:You don't and the only way to see them is to voice them, is to voice them and talk to other people about them, to find out where in the world you might be going wrong.
Speaker 2:Something you didn't think about, right Now, we're not talking again. I'm not talking about the what-isms Right All right, because there's a lot of those. I'm about tired of them, right All right, because there's a lot of those. I'm about tired of them. You know, that's like them doing that whole entire thing. If we talk about this, then that means that excludes these people. No, it don't no. It don't no. It doesn't always mean that Just because you talk about relationships from a straight point of view doesn't mean you get rid of the gay people. No, it just means you're talking about relationships, right? Not having babies, absolutely. See. Now there's another thing, there's another concept in paganism. I keep on seeing skipped. Now again, I don't have a problem with abortion, especially that first trimester. What?
Speaker 3:me and you are used to what we grew up in.
Speaker 2:It's just the first trimester. None of this late crap. Don't have a problem with this, and I even understand. In the old days, yes, tribes used to have to make certain decisions when the crops weren't good, and sometimes babies and old people were left out in the cold. Right, all right, we're not talking about we don't live in these but at the end of every Sabbath, at the end of every ritual we go, the anthem is to the male as the chalice is to the female. Co-joined together, they bring forth blessings. Right, what do y'all think them blessings are? Hmm, it sure in hell, ain't that damn orgasm. Nope, that ain't that damn orgasm. No, that's just something to cover up the freaking pain you're in.
Speaker 1:I was going to say well, you know well, it serves its purpose, but that's not the blessing, that's not the blessing.
Speaker 2:So again I'm back to we should be encouraging people to have kids Right. All right, well, follow the logic If I sit here and tell you okay, we value life. Life is a celebration of our gods, of our religion, in and of itself Right. How better way to express that? By having a child Right and having a child young enough so you can enjoy having a child. The parents I see worn out really at the edge of the fridge. It's the ones that had them when they're late 30s and blah blah blah, yeah, wait a little older yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, because you ain't got the energy to keep up with them, so again you have them earlier, you got a better chance of everything going off right. I'm sorry. What's so hard about this? Why can't we encourage people to do that?
Speaker 1:I don't see anything wrong with it.
Speaker 2:The logic sits there. Sure it does. Right there it is. But yet in the pagan community, god forbid if you don't hear them. Oh, abortion, this abortion, that abortion. I think y'all are missing the point here.
Speaker 1:Well, and then too, we're not talking about having a shit ton of babies.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Creating a football team, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just saying, to take that concept of something that is supposed to be part of our religion. We are supposed to be creating more life. Yes and just well, we're not even going to listen to the concept, we're not listening to the words of what we're saying, and that this is completely disconnected from reality.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not Well, some people, they just can't go beyond a certain idea, they get stuck on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then it just goes round and round and round and round and never goes anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like the logic I used to do as a kid If I could read the word, I would know how to spell the word. If I knew how to spell the word, I could look the word up.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I can't read the word because I can't spell the word. So how in the world am I supposed to look the word up to find out how to spell it?
Speaker 1:well, yeah, but no, I'm speaking more like the political ideas. You know, people, people get stuck. I mean, it's the best example I can come up with. You know, you get stuck on one thing. Somebody said something about a politician name your politician right, whatever. Somebody says something about a politician Name your politician Right, whatever. Somebody says something about it, and that's all that gets talked about.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:You never go beyond that point.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And when somebody tries to come at you with well, what about this, what about that? Let's discuss this a little bit. Oh, no, no, no, it goes back to that point.
Speaker 2:Only that point.
Speaker 1:It never goes beyond.
Speaker 2:Because again I'm back to it I don't think people actually listen. People come up to you and say that because you're not my tribe or whatever the reason, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm not going to hear an opinion outside of what my little bubble.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I'm talking about and I'm sorry that's dangerous right, and you know that goes beyond politics. It involves religion, it involves daily life. Yeah, anything that you're doing in your daily life, you know, I, I just I don't get it, people, it's like open up, let's discuss. I don't get it, people, it's like open up, let's discuss things. Don't be so, don't be so closed in on yourself.
Speaker 2:You know I mean. What are y'all afraid of? God forbid what Y'all might get a new idea. You might change a thought.
Speaker 1:Are you afraid of being wrong? If I was afraid of being wrong, you know how many times I've been wrong in my life?
Speaker 2:Oh God, Hell. I think I was wrong five times this morning, just before I got out of bed.
Speaker 1:I lost count. I've lost count the number of times that I was wrong. But you know what I wouldn't have known? I was wrong if I hadn't explored the idea, if I hadn't gone beyond my little brain section. You know.
Speaker 2:But again you get the excuses. I don't want to disturb you, I don't want to do, I don't want. You don't want to learn To me. This is not that listening, this is just. I don't really want to do this and I don't have the balls to sit there and go I'm, I don't, and then walk away well, I remember, I remember the early days of coven work, yeah, and we would quite literally have students that would just randomly call up yes on a regular basis, just randomly call up and say, hey, you know what, I'm confused about something.
Speaker 2:I am very accustomed for many years of first degrees calling me up randomly throughout the day to ask me random questions. Yes, and that's why I'm working.
Speaker 1:It's like at work at home we could be out at the grocery store.
Speaker 2:Now when I was working. Yes, you might have gotten. I'll have to call you right back.
Speaker 1:Right here in a little bit. It's like, give me a minute. I need to get to a place, a place where it's a little bit more private. Let me get to a place we'll discuss.
Speaker 2:Luckily I had a job where I could find places that were private.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, absolutely yeah, but it wouldn't be a very long conversation. It would be okay. We'll talk about this after I get off work. But it's like over the past I don't know 10, 15 years, it's gotten out of that and it's like what happened? What happened?
Speaker 2:Seriously what. So if anybody can chime in on this mindset, help us understand I remember getting my first and going through, especially going through my second, Going through my second. I think I saw Lorde men on almost a daily freaking basis.
Speaker 1:Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 2:And we'd talk some witchcraft sometime.
Speaker 1:Pretty much every day yeah.
Speaker 2:Every day. Lady Keegan same thing. She would call me up every single day and we would sit here and talk for hours on end.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now getting people to communicate is virtually impossible. It seems like it. Yeah, Make it make sense. Make it make sense how in the world a priest can sit there and go. You can call me whenever, I don't want to bother you.
Speaker 1:Right, I don't know. The only thing that does make sense at this point is coffee. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3:Join us next week for another episode we travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning. Guitar solo.
