Unraveling Intolerance in Paganism and the Power of Fasting

Could you be unintentionally planting seeds of intolerance in your little one's mind? Have you found yourself demeaning other faiths while praising paganism? This episode invites you to a candid conversation about the rising issue of intolerance within paganism. We'll share our observations on this worrying trend and discuss how we can focus on our own faith without belittling others. Our chat aims to highlight the importance of embracing commonalities between religions rather than differences.

On this journey, we'll also take a detour to discuss the powerful practice of fasting. You'll understand its profound physiological and emotional impacts, and how it can help you gain emotional control. We'll give you tips on how to approach it safely and discuss the need for moderation. Pour yourself a cup of coffee and join us in this enlightening exploration of paganism, tolerance, and fasting.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:24

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Lady Ava and Lord Knight.

Speaker 2 0:34

Okay, so we were talking about being at a pagan gather and something that I noticed. It was wild because initially my reaction was that's freaking cool and then the more I thought about it, I went that's not cool. I kind of had a 180 moment on this.

Speaker 3 0:59

Okay, let's back up here what was the moment for those listening to us.

Speaker 2 1:03

There was yeah, there was a little boy of probably about four or five years old with his dad Again, pagan gather, so lots of pagans different kinds running around and this little boy was wearing a t-shirt that said I would rather be a wolf of Odin than a lamb of God and initially I was like all right little dude.

Speaker 3 1:28

I see you.

Speaker 2 1:29

Yeah, I was like high five, you know. But then the more I sat with it I was like that child was probably far too young to understand what that actually means, and it's the realization that that is his parents badmouthing another religion.

Speaker 3 1:56

Through their kid.

Speaker 2 1:56

Through their kid and teaching that child a form of hate or intolerance. And I'm like whoa, that's a fucked up day when the pagans are being intolerant, Thank you. So I really had to look at that and go man, what are we teaching our kids? Look, I get that a lot of pagans are hurt. I get that a lot of pagans, from a multitude of different reasons, were shunned by, dealt with hypocrisy, dealt with shitty people in the church that they were raised in. But does that give? Is that a reason to pass that down to your kids? You can teach them how to be pagan and you can introduce them to your beliefs without belittling anyone else's faith, Right? So what the hell's going on? It's a little scary. I mean, we're back to.

Speaker 3 3:04

I have seen an uprise in the past, especially in the past four or five years of well, for the lack of anything else. Christian bastard, yes From pagans.

Speaker 2 3:16

Because we're well I'm saying we, but you know I'm using the royal we, all of us, we're mad, and I get it. Like I said, I understand that there's been a lot of.

Speaker 3 3:30

Bad blood.

Speaker 2 3:32

Yeah, but at some point we have to get over it, at some point we have to go. Okay, you know what? I survived a church that I didn't like. I'm here, I'm intact. You know, it's not like the old days where we got put on the rack. You know.

Speaker 3 3:52

No, no, let's get burned.

Speaker 2 3:53

No, you were emotionally scarred, right, you were mentally maybe scarred, but but you found the right religion for you. So focus on that and not on the hatred towards this other faith, because really the faith didn't do it, people did.

Speaker 3 4:16

Right Now. What would you say to those who would sit there and go but yet I sit back and watch them own doing the YouTube videos and stuff like that, bashing oh yeah and Christians, bashing us witches and pagans for our belief?

Speaker 2 4:31

system. But I don't feel like we see as much of that anymore. I'm not saying we don't see some of it.

Speaker 3 4:40

Well, again, first of all, let me, let me state this those women, or those people that they'll bring on like the 700 Club every so, often yeah. Oh, I've, you know, battled my way. I don't actually believe these.

Speaker 2 4:52

But they're extremists too. Yeah, they're too far out there in their own stuff. I don't pay much attention to that, but here's how I look at it. Like you said, last four or five years, you can now buy a shirt at Walmart, right, right, it doesn't get more Christian founded than Walmart. That says we are the daughters of the witches. You couldn't burn. You know what I mean? Yeah, like that's a common battle cry now we are the granddaughters, the grandsons of the witches. You could not burn. That's pretty bold. Yes, I don't mind it so much as the shirt the little boy had on, because it was specifically calling out the Christians, even though, yes, the Christians were known for persecution and largely, you know, the witch trials were Christian fueled.

Speaker 3 5:57

Right.

Speaker 2 5:58

There were other things happening there. If you know your history, you understand that it was. There was a lot more going on. It was about land acquisition, it was about money, it was about taking actual power and property away from people.

Speaker 2 6:17

So they were just doing it under the guise of God and let's be honest, that's happened throughout history. How many times? That's nothing new. But yeah, this little kid's t-shirt. But oh no, Because I don't understand why to put our own religion on a pedestal for lack of a better way to put it means we've got to kick somebody else. That's very strange to me.

Speaker 3 6:46

It makes no sense to me.

Speaker 2 6:47

No.

Speaker 3 6:48

At all.

Speaker 2 6:48

There are pagan aspects of Christianity, there are pagan aspects of Judaism, there are pagan aspects of Islamic faith and Muslim and so many countless other religions. Why are we not focusing on commonality?

Speaker 3 7:05

Versus. Yeah, I mean because, again, the pagan traditions in these Judeo-Christian beliefs. We've been doing this dance for a long time.

Speaker 2 7:19

We have Look, I get a giggle now that when you drive around I see it around Charlotte a lot now the churches are actually putting up cute little signs and messages for Halloween. It's not the big scary thing anymore, no, they're actually incorporating it into some of what they believe. I saw one the other day. It was basically like it's autumn, come inside and fall for Jesus. I was like, all right, that's cute, come on. But I've seen others that have to do with trick or treating or that have to do with Halloween and boo. I'm like this is great, this is great. This is that church making a modern effort, yes, and being inclusive, and I'm like so what the hell is our problem?

Speaker 3 8:20

I don't know, I don't get it. I don't see why in the world, people, while people in the pagan community, seem to think that they have to destroy another religion to build ours up.

Speaker 2 8:32

Why is everybody so angry?

Speaker 3 8:34

That's a really good question.

Speaker 2 8:36

Yeah, it's, and more so. Why is that hurt and that anger not being addressed and analyzed spiritually and being dissipated? How do you spiritually grow if you're hanging onto that?

Speaker 3 8:58

Right.

Speaker 2 8:58

That is going to be your biggest barrier and the biggest blockade to moving in a forward direction.

Speaker 3 9:06

I mean we became pagan and this tradition and all this. When we did this, we left those traditions and stuff behind.

Speaker 2 9:15

That being said, prime example, because I am still, because it doesn't matter. I am a baptized Catholic.

Speaker 2 9:25

I have been through all of the Catholic sacraments. Do you know how many children of friends I am the godmother to? I had one girlfriend who went oh my god, that's right, I completely forgot. You've been confirmed, you're a Catholic. Well, I mean, I'm not a practicing Catholic, but yes, I guess, if you want to be technical, I can't have my kids baptized in the Catholic Church unless their godparent is somebody who, because I can't do it, I was raised, whatever Right, and I'm like all right, sign me up, because what's the difference? What is the difference between being a spiritual advisor to a child of another faith or being a spiritual advisor to a child of my own faith? Nothing, not really.

Speaker 2 10:20

I mean, they're still kids Right, and I mean at the end of the day.

Speaker 3 10:24

I mean your spiritual guidance ends that hey, it's nap time.

Speaker 2 10:28

I mean, it's a little more than that. But what is spiritual guidance for children? Morality, right? We really want to be teaching them right from wrong. Let's boil it down real simply. It's teaching them to be responsible citizens, right. It's teaching them to be mindful of others, whether it be people or in nature, or both. It's teaching them forgiveness, love, how to process emotions. I mean, it really is all the same, no matter the deity at the end of the funnel. So who cares? But so much anger, so much resentment floating around, and I would love to see comments on this.

Speaker 2 11:19

I would love if people would comment and write in and give us their thoughts on this, so we can chew on it a little bit more, because Again, I think this is a problem in the community and it's something we need to fix. Yeah, and we need more perspective on it. We need to have discussions about we're not going to heal unless we talk about it, right?

Speaker 3 11:41

Well, again, we've even gone to the point where we even have a class in an attempt to get you not to hate Christianity.

Speaker 2 11:49

Yes, yes, because it's such a common denominator. I have only had one student, one that has been completely and utterly devoid of any religious upbringing or any other faith influencing their life. They were not raised vegan, they simply were raised with nothing.

Speaker 3 12:16

Nothing.

Speaker 2 12:17

Their parents were basically atheists agnostics. They just did not raise their kids in any type of religion.

Speaker 3 12:24

Did not discuss it.

Speaker 2 12:25

So this person was a blank slate. It was the most refreshing thing I'd ever seen, because they had no preconceptions, they had no hang ups, they had no anger. No, all they had was curiosity, plain and simple. They had pure. And we would sometimes get into class discussions where, yes, people would talk about their experiences with different churches and this poor woman was like I don't know what you're talking about, because I never that never happened to me.

Speaker 3 12:58

It just makes no sense to me. I don't believe people would actually behave that way.

Speaker 2 13:03

It was so much so that I had to send her down a side quest to research and get a more well-rounded understanding of other faiths, because she really was. She had nothing, Nothing to go off of. But that's. Most of people are like no, they walk in the door and they're just like you go, what were you raised? It's like down boy, Relax.

Speaker 3 13:33

So I mean trust me, my heart stops every time they go oh, I was raised, so the baddest.

Speaker 2 13:39

Oh crap yeah.

Speaker 3 13:39

No, I know.

Speaker 2 13:40

So yeah, I mean if you would, if you're listening to this, drop us a note, tell us your experience, give us a story or two, and we'd like more comments in general. We'd love for people to participate, ask questions, give us other topic ideas. Man, send us coffee, that's always.

Speaker 3 14:06

Yeah, we don't turn down coffee.

Speaker 2 14:08

No just send beans.

Speaker 3 14:09

Send the plan.

Speaker 2 14:18

So, lord Knight, the holidays are almost upon us, yay. So for most people that means gluttonous eating, yay, and ironically, for a lot of pagans it means fasting, and you said it yourself it's not a topic we hear about often, and you know that's kind of true. I do want to.

Speaker 3 14:41

Well, let's get some caveats out there.

Speaker 2 14:43

Please, I do want to say, first and foremost, if you have, if you have an eating disorder, if you have suffered from an eating disorder and the Don't listen to this, just don't.

Speaker 3 14:53

Just don't Alright. And if you have medications and stuff that you have to take with medication, please take your medication appropriately.

Speaker 2 15:00

Yeah yeah, we're not suggesting anything that puts anyone's health in danger. We, first and foremost, want you to be aware of that.

Speaker 3 15:08

But and before doing eating fasting, please speak with your doctor.

Speaker 2 15:11

Yes, but it's a fairly normal practice. I typically fast any ritual day and anytime I know that I'm going to be attending or conducting ritual, I will do my damnedest to fast. Now, does that mean zero food, zero liquid? No, no, not really, because, you know, it varies as your life changes and age, and medications all the things you mentioned. Yeah, I used to.

Speaker 3 15:48

I mean because we have people they're diabetic and stuff like that Sure they have to eat it and take certain.

Speaker 2 15:54

Yeah, If you have hypoglycemia. I mean there's a number of different conditions, Medications alone. A lot of people can't take their medication if they're not with food, because it'll make them sick. You know, nowadays that's kind of what I do. I do the bare minimum calorically of what's necessary to take my meds. I'll drink coffee and water black throughout the day and that's about it until after a ritual.

Speaker 3 16:21

Now let's start this.

Speaker 2 16:22

Now normally.

Speaker 3 16:24

normally we'll do a fasting for certain rituals, Yep. Some will be up to three days.

Speaker 2 16:29

Yes.

Speaker 3 16:31

Now we have to explain to people. How would you explain to someone how they would get to be able to fast?

The Importance and Challenges of Fasting

Speaker 2 16:38

So I think the first thing is you have to train yourself Fasting, and fasting right now, being so popular as a diet, is a good place to start. You sort of you know you're going to designate a block of time maybe where you prolong having your first meal of the day or ingesting your first calories. You can't go from never having fasted before to just. I'm just going to fast.

Speaker 3 17:09

No, you can't slam the, you know.

Speaker 2 17:12

If you can stay in bed for three days and not be around people, and you know I'm sure that'd be lovely but not realistic for most of us.

Speaker 3 17:22

Well, we'll tell most people is like at the beginning of the week, if you're going to be fasting for the end of the week, you would start off by just maybe lowering.

Speaker 2 17:33

Yeah, reducing the amount you're eating, cutting out heavy carbohydrates, cutting out sugars things that you're going to crave later, reducing caffeine content, you know and getting to the point where, each day, you're eating lighter and lighter meals. Yeah, but it's not easy. The question, I think, really becomes why? Why do we do it? Why is it an important practice?

Speaker 3 18:03

Well, there's some physiological things that happen when we start to fast, and our body actually starts producing certain hormones and neurotransmitters.

Speaker 2 18:15

Chemicals, sure Chemicals, and these often spike during fasting, which will put you more into a meditative style state it's you're putting your body through a bit of hell so that your mind can be free. Disconnect, yeah, and it's been done throughout ages. I mean, we're not the only faith to honor this. I mean, even modern Jewish people have periods of fasting Right.

Speaker 3 18:48

Look how they do that break fast.

Speaker 2 18:50

They do it at a couple of their major holidays and then they also do it when they at funerals. There's periods of mourning and fasting. But yeah, it, but you have to. Again, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's after you. Again it's it's thinking about preparation. I think that that's the big thing. It's making sure that during the days that you are fasting, what you are consuming is very clean eating lots of fruits and vegetables, nuts, seeds, you know, things that are very unprocessed, as pure as they can be, to still fuel yourself During this time, yeah, but you're being mindful that, yeah, you're eating very, very small quantities. Um, broth has always been kind of the go-to for most of us for a lot of fasts.

Speaker 3 19:47

And drink a lot of water.

Speaker 2 19:48

Yeah, Lot, lot of fluid intake and for most people, honestly, you know, especially if you've ever done any kind of diet, the first three days are the worst. Yes, that's the hardest part and usually by day three we're ending it anyway, so it's not so bad. But you really do have to know your body and you have to know your triggers and you have to prepare. You might have to change. You know social outings to accommodate Um, you, you have to. You know shop ahead of time, because if you're trying to fast and just caught completely off guard, yeah, no.

Speaker 3 20:32

But we all know how dangerous it is to go to the grocery store hungry and after being what two days of fasting.

Speaker 2 20:39

My God, yeah, uh-uh, yeah, no, that is not going to go well. Um and and again, there's I've seen a lot of people who, even though they're perfectly healthy and they don't, they're not diabetic, they're not hyperglycine they still end up with blood sugar issues from a fast. Yeah, um, people with high metabolisms are usually the ones who suffer the most because their body just goes holy shit, what are you doing to me? Um, yeah, but it's interesting because we don't often talk about why that cleanse is important as well, like, what are we flushing? What are we getting rid of? And I mean, we know, we know, obviously, what a fast, you know you're purging your body and a lot of garbage that you're potentially putting into it all the time. But how does that aid?

Speaker 3 21:36

I believe, for me at least, for some reason, going through that process, it seems to be easier to flush out my concern my emotions.

Speaker 2 21:48

Interesting, alright.

Speaker 3 21:50

Because I'm empty. Those things become empty too.

Speaker 2 21:55

So again, free the body, free the mind.

Speaker 3 21:56

Freeing the body it starts to. I think it reminds us that this world is very addictive to a certain extent. Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:07

And there's also that fun little. Sometimes we suffer to learn and that's something that that little Well, at our temple we have always said it and we have drilled it into the heads of our neophytes and our first degrees. When we say suffered to learn, I mean we're not talking about tormenting yourself, but there is a discomfort to going through that process. I mean, look, a lot of pagans, smoke and man. When we look at them and go, you gotta go three days, yep.

Speaker 3 22:42

Oh God.

Speaker 2 22:42

Woo, hoo, hoo, they get.

Speaker 3 22:43

I mean I can give up food, I can give up all that yeah.

Speaker 2 22:49

I don't take women's cigarettes. I mean, you know, again, it's the addictive components. I mean it's rough and it really does have a profound impact.

Speaker 3 23:03

Now, could part of all this also be us trying to show that we have control over ourselves in this world?

Speaker 2 23:12

For me. I see it more as an act of sacrifice.

Speaker 3 23:15

You see it more as an act of sacrifice.

Speaker 2 23:18

Because, well, again, remember Catholic upbringing, so lent, you know, you give things up as a way to show the gods your devotion, your loyalty. But again, that willingness to suffer, and I do think that there's something pretty powerful about that. But, yeah, very rarely do I see it as me having control over anything.

Speaker 3 23:50

Well, I mean, you're showing control over yourself, sure. All right, I mean it's just like you know. Just like you just said, I'm like every other pagan. I used to smoke and it took a lot for me to quit.

Speaker 2 24:06

But also I don't know, see, because I look at that and I go if you're not giving it up permanently, then not really what we're doing is we're putting a kink in the chain somewhere and saying you just got to get through three days, and most people just pick their cigarettes right back up after those three days are over. It's not like they actually plan to make this a long term thing. If that's the case, then yes, I see that more, as this is me exerting my willpower and taking control of this situation. So what else? What else do you think becomes important about the fasting process that maybe people don't realize?

Speaker 3 24:53

Besides the general medical concerns, when you're doing this stuff, you know doing it you got to remember there is a point in doing these where you do become less graspy on reality.

Speaker 2 25:08

Yeah.

Speaker 3 25:08

And this is something you have to keep in mind. Yeah, because, for the lack of anything else, yes, after about three or four days of fasting, you can sort of fill stone. Yeah, you're loopy, you're loopy, agreed, and you have to keep that in mind in your own head. If you don't, it's kind of like knowing you're drunk, and you said back and going. Yeah, I know I'm drunk, I know this is all blown out of proportion in the whole nine yards, but I can't stop it.

Speaker 2 25:37

Now what I think is interesting about that is that sometimes when you have a group ritual, and usually on a major Sabbath, you have a fairly large group of people all fasting, so the collective right. What happens when you have all of these people that are hungry, a little tired, a little on edge, a little bit of a headache right from all of these things? But we're all working together? It's interesting.

Speaker 3 26:10

And yet when you're in ritual, all those problems seem to go away the snippiness.

Speaker 2 26:17

Well, it's funny because you would think that under those circumstances you would have a bunch of really snippy, annoyed people running around, and I've found it to be quite the opposite. Say, I have too.

Speaker 3 26:30

No, you're right, I would expect to be sitting there and having to look down at somebody nodding on my knee. Right, because they're hungry. Right, it looked good.

Speaker 2 26:39

Right, put some barbecue sauce on there, whereas I have seen in our temple plenty of occasions where you have people who haven't eaten in three days, but on that third day they're preparing food. Yeah, for a feast that still got another 12 hours to go before they can eat.

Speaker 3 26:56

And not even thinking about it?

Speaker 2 26:57

Nope, and I mean, if they are, it's a passing thought.

Speaker 3 27:01

Yeah, no, because I'm sure these people, just like any other good cooks, are sitting there and every so often going pace, pace.

Speaker 2 27:07

Yeah, you kind of have to, but at the same time you're still not really consuming enough to be satisfied?

Speaker 3 27:13

Do you actually do?

Speaker 2 27:13

anything. No. So that delayed gratification yeah, it's an effective tool, but for some reason yeah, we hear more about it in other areas of our lives. I don't feel like fasting is as prevalent anymore as a ritual experience or a religious experience of sitting there fasting and meditating.

Speaker 3 27:39

It's an actually interesting thing to go through.

Speaker 2 27:41

It is. And we're funny because when we say fasting we don't just mean food, no, we sex is off the table. God, what else I'm trying to? I mean, we get pretty regimented for those three days. Yeah, no sex.

Speaker 3 27:58

No sex, no food.

Speaker 2 28:01

Minimal food, only things that are getting very clean, very natural, very healthy.

Speaker 3 28:06

Very low coffee.

Speaker 2 28:07

Yeah, very little caffeine, no nicotine, no drugs. If it's impossible, if it's a medication that is not dire or essential to someone's well-being, then yes, we will come off of unessential medications or supplements. Right. Because, again, that's just one more thing we're putting in ourselves. Geez, I know, I know, as a woman, one of the things is we write no makeup, no nail polish. No, you're very stripped down during that time. Yeah, it's primitive, almost Almost yeah.

Speaker 3 28:49

Well, the idea is to again to get as much of these toxins out to get as much of these chemicals and stuff that we're putting in our bodies. That might not necessarily be the best thing for us.

Speaker 2 29:00

It's trying to go back to a place of being pure as the wrong word, but cleaned, cleansed.

Speaker 3 29:08

Now new. Here's what I always found funny is after coming off of fast you would think you would want to eat a lot.

Speaker 2 29:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:16

Yeah, so coming off the fast, okay, breaking, let's talk about breaking a fast, okay, well one of my favorite stories was Lord Graceland years ago talking about how someone, after a fast, someone gave him a grape and he, you know in his mind, was like, oh my god, this is going to be the greatest grape I've ever had and he goes. Instead he goes. It was almost a bit repulsive to you know, because it was like he's like it wanted to get stuck in my throat and it was just, yeah, he's like it was not enjoyable and normally when we step people out of a fast we're like you got to take it slow.

Speaker 2 29:58

Yeah, take it slow, you know a little bit of soup, nice piece of toast, piece of fruit. You know you're not going to sit down and gorge yourself after you know you'll get sick.

Speaker 3 30:09

You'll get sick in the heart. They throw it up.

Speaker 2 30:12

Yep.

Speaker 3 30:12

So coming off a fast is just as important as making sure you're properly going into a fast.

Speaker 2 30:17

That's true. It's very true. Yeah, it's a preparatory phase, no matter how you look at it.

Speaker 3 30:26

It's definitely not something you're going to do just because it's a Thursday.

Speaker 2 30:30

No, it's more because you know some lists told you to do it today.

Speaker 3 30:36

This is something you have to sort of set yourself up for.

Speaker 2 30:40

But if you've never done it also, it is interesting to at least experiment with it in your workings and see what happens. What happens if it benefits you or if it actually ends up being a negative, to the point where you would know no, no, no, that's not for me, and that's okay.

Speaker 3 30:57

I would just sit there and suggest hey, just do it for one day, do it for one ritual, see what happens, yep, yep, yep, yep, and don't get too addicted on it and just quit eating all together. Yeah, no, please, no, please, keep on eating, yeah.

Speaker 2 31:12

Well, it's the same thing. Abstaining from something for a long period of time can have these oddly euphoric effects. I mean, sex is a good example of that. But it can be dangerous if you go too far, right.

Speaker 3 31:25

I mean just like anything else we ever talked about in craft, it's always moderation. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, we love that man. Death for just coming up with moderation. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 31:37

Yeah, but fasting is, you're right, people don't really talk enough about it. I think they think it's sufficient to just go. Okay, just fast for a day, maybe not. No, not, you know, it takes a little more guidance, it takes a little bit more prep than just that Really.

Speaker 3 31:54

there are certain people, yeah, that might have to sit there and drink juice throughout the day.

Speaker 2 31:59

Yeah, they want fasting to keep up their sugar and it happens, or electrolytes, or you may have to use a protein powder or something like that that's going to help you to maintain metabolic homeostasis. Getting out of all my science words today, but the good thing is we're not fasting right now so we can have more.

Speaker 1 32:28

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Lifetimell and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetimellseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.