Drugs in Witchcraft or Witches Gone Wild

**Disclaimer** The views in this podcast are not necessarily the views of everyone at Life Temple and Seminary - In this podcast, Lord Night and Oswyn discuss the potential use of drugs in craft and the implications of addiction. They will also cover the potential use of drugs in therapy sessions. Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ 

Join us on
Discord:  https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. Here are your hosts, Oswan and Lord Knight. Are you ready for today's topic?

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Sure. Oh God. If you're giggling and laughing, I'm doomed.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

No, not that bad. Just drugs and witchcraft.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Drugs are actually a very good thing.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Okay, but they're illegal. Yes, they are. Um most of the ones most people talk about when they refer to drug use and witchcraft.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Yeah, most of them are hallugens and stuff. But if I remember correctly, the way the law's set up is if your religion believes in it, you're allowed to do it. But you have to do it in a religious context. You cannot just sit on your couch, smoke a joint, watch Spectre Gadget eating Doritos. Right. I am stuck on this Dorito thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

You really are. But again, as far as and as far as the laws go, be sure to check in your local area what your laws are.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

I I can tell you what they are for North Carolina, and that's it. And from my understanding, North Carolina, and you have to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

It has to be in like, you know, gold written hieroglyphics, handed down by Tuafadeta Nan by the uh by Dano herself. No, no, no. Normally, I re I remember a long time ago, I saw this documentary on uh drugs and religion. And what they did was they went to these smaller tribes and stuff like that that have less influence of the modern world.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

They did this on purpose because they were they were trying to eliminate the modern world as being our drug problem.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Does that make sense? Right. It's ignoring our quote unquote war on drugs, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Ignoring our war on drugs and our view of them and what they do and what they don't do. All right. So just in case being a drug addict wasn't a cultural thing is what they were trying to figure out.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

What they did find out is as long as drugs are done in a religious context, do you know drug addicts never appear?

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

What they have found was all these tribes and stuff that use these drugs, nobody in these tribes who did these drugs for a religious experience ever became drug addicts.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Well, I think part of that is because at that point you've got the the shamans or the you know whatever the tribe calls them, but you've got those spiritual leaders who know how to use them. Well, you also have and then they're being supervised.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yes. All that is true. Plus, you also have the thought of the individual. If you're becoming part of the priesthood, right? If you're studying to become a shaman or whatever, right? Your teacher might give you drugs to alter your consciousness so you know what it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

But again, you're being supervised.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

You're being supervised, you're also being trained because using drugs is kind of like what we were talking about using guided meditations.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

It's a training tool. It isn't the real thing itself. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Because you don't know how to get to the spiritual realm through meditation and stuff like that and all this. We're going to give you drugs to push you over there so you understand what it's like to get there, what it's going to take without the drugs.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Right. But as as far as those tribes go, I think a lot of them are actually using it to delve deeper into that realm.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

It's not just, you know, hey, we're using this drug to get you here. No. We're using it to throw you in deeper.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

They're using it as a training tool in the same way we talked about guided meditations. It is to show you where the feeling is. It's just to show you how to get there so you can learn how to do it without the drugs. When you're in the priesthood or you're studying to become this spiritual leader, your responsibility is to your people, not to you getting stoned. You can't do that when you're stoned, so therefore, self-control comes back in. The desire to be this spiritual person should override any other thing you have. In the same way we look at meditation, all right. I'm sorry. If you cannot meditate uh daily, you need to get out of witchcraft. If you can't do it, then quit doing this. You need to follow a different religion. This is not for you. This is a basic requirement. You do you see what I'm saying? This is uh to be a basic requirement, uh, to be a spiritual leader, you have to be in control of your faculties all the time. Right. So you can't do drugs. You can only do drugs that you need to to do your rituals. Uh and even then you try your best to limit them as much as you can. Because eventually, as you're going through this journey, you're eventually your your spiritual guide's gonna eventually teach you, well, here's how you make the drug, here's how you minister the drug, here's how you control the doses of the drug. Does that make sense? Yeah, you don't want to exceed this much, you're gonna learn all that. Once you learn it, you learn it. That don't mean you can't administer the stuff to yourself afterwards. Right. What prevents these people from just staying stoned on the couch is their spiritual responsibility to their community. That's what keeps them from being a drug addict.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

All right.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Did that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

I don't have a problem with it. No, I do not think you should do ritual wise stoned. That's just that's asking for trouble. Somebody will get set on fire or be impelled by a sword or something. Uh just right.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

There's there's there's there's too much that can go wrong.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Right. It's limited, it is controlled, it is used sparingly, and it's only used enough to guide you, not do it for you.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

All right, well, uh I do know that there are some native tribes where they use drugs, they use hallucinogens. Yes, or uh prophecies, you know, talking to the ancestors. Right. Again, they use them on a regular basis, though. Well I mean, like whenever they're doing that, that's what they do. They use a particular drug in a certain dose.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Uh-huh. But what's a regular basis? Are we talking twice a year, four times a year?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Well, I don't know. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

But do you see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Right. But you said it was a training thing, but I'm saying that there are those where it's part of their process.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Well, is it might be part of a specific ritual, but you're not doing that ritual every day. Well, no. That does that make sense. You're only going to do those special rituals and stuff like that at certain times.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

All right.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

So you gotta understand what makes a drug addict a drug addict is the fact that their desire for the drug overrides all their other desires again. The most hideous of all the emotions, okay, is love. Why is it the most hideous? For the love of drugs, for the love of money, for the love of a woman. Okay, yeah. How many wars have been fought and and stories have been made over love? How many people have been killed over love? Right. Again, it can be one of the most insidious emotions we have is love. Because we'll do almost anything for it to keep it true. True.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

To get it. Yeah, and I mean love drives a lot of things and not necessarily good things.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

No, well, no, but wars have been fought over love. Oh, yes, they have. I mean, that's what the whole Trojan War was supposedly about, was over a woman.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I mean, that's what the whole story is about. It's over love. You know, what was that? Yeah, the face that launched the thousand ships. Right. I still like the Mighty Python thail, where they're actually using her to christen all the boats and literally right, right. They keep on tying her up and just slinging her into boats one right after another.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

But drugs and craft, not that big of a deal. You know, yeah, be responsible, follow the law, don't, you know. But I don't necessarily have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is when we're talking about drugs and craft, is you doing it to yourself.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

So you think it's okay as long as it's supervised?

SPEAKER_01 10:24

I think it's all right. I I to a certain extent, I think it's all right if it's supervised. I also think it's all right and have less of a problem with it if it's more of a natural drug versus a processed drug. Right. And I guess that really depends on how much of a process you're talking about there. You know, if you're just talking about drying out leaves, technically that's a process. So just like, you know, drying out mushrooms and all this other stuff, there's a little bit of process.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

I was gonna say, are you talking are you talking processed as in like meth where it's got other non-natural ingredients in it?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Exactly. Meth, cocaine, cocaine is just the process on it's just got way too much. Too intense, more than what it should be in nature.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So as long as it's you think as long as it's a natural right. So again, like using herbs, right, then that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

I I don't have a problem with it. You know, again, you still got to abide by the laws of the land, and unfortunately, right now there's this process is still illegal.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

You know, I d I wish the rules were relaxed a little bit more so some Covens and other people could experiment with these better in a more sense. Right. You know, yes, we we might even have to go to you know, some of these tribes and people that do use these drugs to go and okay, how do y'all do it? And actually have that conversation with them. I know right now it's kind of hard to do unless you're in living in certain states.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

But you know, it's not the be all or begin all, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Well, and even then, there's some of those natural drugs that um are only able to be used by certain people. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Like I know indigenous Americans, Native Americans, whatever I don't know what they're being called now, but um you know they use peyote and well you see the the strange thing there is you also got to remember how this is set up when your own reservation land technically you're in a different country.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Right, I understand that, but I'm just saying it's only they're they're only bound by federal laws, but yes, there's a lot of things that the I'm just saying, as far as their use of peyote, yeah, nobody outside of that culture in America is allowed to use peyote.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

But outside of that religious religion, right? Right. What we're trying to do here is to separate spiritual use of drugs from getting stone, right? From recreational use. Right. The recreational use, all right. What you got to understand is how do you know it's recreational if they're administering to themselves, okay? And not following like a set plan for pain pills or stuff like that, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Well, and even then I could I could see things getting out of hand as you've got the high priest or a high priestess who's going around administering to other people and just you know, hey, go have a good time.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Go have a good time. Again, it's got to be struct, it's got to be a structured thing. You're you're having to walk these people through it. You're gonna have to be hyper-aware that these people are more sensitive, probably might be more emotional, uh, or have a you know, or a different disposition. Trying to meditate on why on marijuana is the most dumbest thing in the world because the two don't always jive well together. Right, right. You know, on the other hand, sometimes it's easier to do.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Well, I guess that depends on uh how it affects you.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Exactly. And since you don't know, you're gonna have to be aware of that doing it. Right. You're also gonna have to have a phone by just in case, because if you're doing elucygenics. Thank you. You're probably gonna want to have somebody stand by. I'd even have to go as far as, you know, if you happen to have a nurse or somebody in your coven, hey, let me put you on the speed dial.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Just in case. Just in case, because you don't know what kind of allergic reactions people might have.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Well, and and see that's a good reason to have it all supervised as well. That way you've got somebody who's sober so that if something does go wrong, yeah, they can pick up the phone and dial 911 and get you to a hospital.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Exactly. You know, or be able to talk you down off that ledge. People have issues. And again, I'm I'm back to if you ain't meditated and took care of it and all that, taking hallucinogens are only going to amp up the effects. Oh, absolutely. You know, it it I I think it actually, I think most hallucinogens I've heard of actually work just like we talk about with our meditation process. It literally forces you to deal with your issues, but because it's so dramatic, it can kind of week you out if you ain't got somebody sitting there going, no, no, no, no, no, breathe. Nothing can hurt you. It's just a memory.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

You know, at the time it could look that real to you.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Well, sure it could, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

You know, again, I I wish therapists, I wish they'd allow therapists or psychologists to actually administer some of these drugs in sessions or right before the session to where in the world they can sit down and talk to these people.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah, I mean, it it might actually be beneficial, but I think if they were gonna do that, they would still have to have maybe a trained medical professional on hand.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Well, they are psychologists are trained medical. They do have some medical, they have they have they have more medical training than me or you or just your average person.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Well, I understand that, but right, they're probably still not to the point where they could handle somebody having a severe allergic reaction. Probably something. Probably not, probably not. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Just have, even if it comes down to having a medical professional to be able to sit there and knock them out if they need to before they hurt themselves.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Right. You know, somebody who's who's trained in the use of certain medications to counteract whatever it was they might have taken.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Well, see, I I hate to be this, but my understanding, and I could be wrong with this, like ecstasy was originally created as a drug for psychologists to use to put everybody in a happy feeling to make them feel really, really good so they could talk about more traumatic stuff.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Um, that would be worth doing some research on. I have I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Well, the the idea was we're gonna give you this drug, it's gonna make you happy. And then we're gonna talk, it's gonna make you super happy and feel good, and we're gonna talk and we're gonna sit down and talk about more traumatic stuff while you're in this mood because it's gonna be less traumatic for you. Right. And I think they were mainly doing this originally with people with PDSD.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Well, I mean, it makes sense, but I just like I said, I don't I don't know. I've I've never researched it. I know well, I've never heard that to research it. So Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

I mean, that's kind of like you know, most of the because of the laws, most of the research on marijuana came to a dead stop in the United States. Right. The fact is is that we can use it to make fuel and not have to burn corn.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I mean, we can't you can use the hemp plant to make alcohol to burn in your car.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

As fuel.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Among other things.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Among other things. And again, hey, let's do this to a few food source or do this to the mer to the hemp plant. Let's do it to the hemp plant. So when you start thinking along them lines, all that research just stopped when they changed the law and made it illegal.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Right. But in recent years, I'd say in the past five to ten years, there's there's been more research that's uh crept back up.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Oh, yeah. So I mean they they are trying to get back into it, but again, still hindered by certain laws and regulations, regulations, and people certain people want to hear certain things and not hear the other things.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

You know, just like you know, pace most people, yo, we got to take the drugs out of religion or everybody's gonna become drug addicts, which is a lie.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

The problem was taking drugs out of religion, right? We took drugs out of religion, and now we have drug addicts.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Right. You you you take it out of that religious context, and that's just allowing people to do whatever with it.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

It's an excuse.

unknown 19:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

It's like we say it's it's like we said in the Manifest Destiny, the reason it was used to justify the expansion in the West in the United States, was it was just used to justify doing this for no other reason than to do it. Right. You know, to make them feel great. Hey, yeah, yeah, y'all were controlling your destiny, your ball.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

It's not real. What is real is when we took these drugs out of the religious context, out of the shaman's hands, and put it in pharmacists' hands, and now we have drug problems.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

Right. Okay, take this drug.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Exactly. Personally, I I don't think that we should have a war on drugs, and whatever drugs you want to take as an adult, you should be able to buy and take. If you go to a doctor and get a, you know, hey, can I get a recommendation? Right. What do you think I need to be taken for this? You know, I still think it's ridiculous that every time I get a sinus infection, I have to go to a doctor, pay him money just to go to, just to go to the pharmacy to get a 10-day supply of antibiotics and some steroids for the sinus pressure. I know when I have a sinus infection, I believe I should be able to go to the pharmacy going, hey, I need this stuff. I have a sinus infection. You know, and the pharmacists, and then don't get me wrong, I think the pharmacists need to, the pharmacies need to track this along with your doctors so they can sit there and go, oh no, no, no, no. You're taking too much antibiotic now. Right. Right. You know, I mean, that's just, you know, just like you know, this pain medication. Yeah, it needs to be monitored. People can kill themselves because people do forget, misread the instructions on these things. I can't think of how many times I've misread instructions and be like, wait a minute, it said take two twice a day. Or what's that one for the you take two that morning, then you take two more, then you take two more, and then the next day you take the same amount. Amount, but one less. Some of them can get really confusing. They can. Yeah, especially if you don't take them that often. Right. Like the steroid stuff. I know the steroids. Yeah, you start off with this maximum amount and then over a couple of days starting out. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Oh, oh God, those those steroid packs, those are the worst.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

But again, you know, if you're overdoing this or overdoing that, yeah, I your pharmacy should your pharmacist should know you enough to go, hey, Bob, you're getting a little heavy on the Xanaxes.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

You know? And again, I don't want people to go into work stoned or anything like that where they're going to hurt themselves at the same time or hurt others.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

But we're back to if it's in a religious context.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

What they discovered supervised. Right. What they discovered was as long as drugs in a society remain in a religious context, those drugs are never used in an abusive way. Right. You know, it's not like taking painkillers where you're taking a bunch of them to relieve pain and then become addicted to them just from the normal use. Right. Which is what we have a problem with now, but that's beside the point.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Right, which I mean that's I don't know. To me, that's just interesting that if it's strictly in a religious context and a supervised in a religious context, that these people never become drug addicts. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

You never have this problem. And and for the tribes, what they found out about the people who weren't shamans and stuff, they looked at this as this was shaman stuff. They have to do it. We can't.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

So when they were doing like their vision quest or whatever, and they were given a drug, even they understood we have to get it from a priest. So even if I do like it and I go back, the priest ain't gonna give me no more. No, you did your vision quest, that's it. Right. You know, you're we're we're not gonna do that ritual for another three months.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

You know, again, just like you know, we're talking about like with therapist. You know, you go you go in, you might take uh uh LSD or something like that and go sit down and talk to your therapist. If she m when that session's done, it might be another three to six months before she tries to do another session like that. Right. Because she doesn't want you to get addicted to the drug. We don't want to rely on the drug, we just want to push you past a certain spot to where you don't need the drug anymore. Absolutely. And it's the same thing in religion. When you see shamans teach people like this, I'm gonna let you use this drug until you're able to do it without it. Make sense?

SPEAKER_03 24:56

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

So I think that's about it. Any other questions?

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Awesome. No, I think that pretty much covers it.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

I'm out of coffee. I guess we'll see y'all next week.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at life templeseminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing pyro. And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning break. And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning break.