Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk is a modern paganism & witchcraft podcast exploring spiritual practice, community, and clergy experience weekly. Each episode invites listeners into candid, grounded conversations about what it really means to live, practice, and serve within today’s diverse pagan paths. Whether you’re a long‑time practitioner or someone newly curious about earth‑based spirituality, the show offers a welcoming space to learn, question, and grow.
Hosted by experienced pagan clergy, Pagan Coffee Talk blends humor, honesty, and hands‑on wisdom to demystify the realities of practice. The podcast dives into topics such as ritual structure, magical ethics, coven dynamics, and the lived experience of serving a community—always with a focus on accessibility and authenticity. You’ll also hear discussions on the challenges of modern pagan leadership, the evolution of contemporary witchcraft traditions, and how practitioners can build sustainable spiritual habits in everyday life.
Listeners searching for “practical pagan spirituality for beginners” or “real‑world witchcraft guidance from clergy” will find the show especially valuable. Episodes often highlight the difference between pop‑culture witchcraft and grounded, lineage‑informed practice, helping listeners navigate misinformation while strengthening their own spiritual foundations. The hosts also explore seasonal observances, ancestor work, devotional practice, and the importance of community support within pagan traditions.
Pagan Coffee Talk isn’t just a podcast—it’s an ongoing conversation shaped by real questions from real practitioners. By sharing personal stories, hard‑earned lessons, and thoughtful commentary, the hosts aim to foster a sense of connection and clarity for anyone walking a pagan path. Whether you’re brewing your morning coffee or settling in for evening reflection, this podcast offers insight, companionship, and a deeper understanding of modern pagan life.
A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: The Morrigan, & Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
The Uncomfortable Path to True Knowledge and Self-Discovery
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Are you braced for a transformational journey through your own boundaries of comfort and understanding? We invite you to a riveting discussion about the essential, albeit challenging, voyage beyond the familiar to grasp true learning. This episode promises an introspective look at why genuine knowledge often requires us to grapple with discomforting truths and how emotional resilience is key to personal growth. We shed light on the difference between subjective beliefs and the objective reality that shapes our universe.
With anecdotes that reference the Lucille Ball show, we illustrate how personal interpretations can sometimes lead us astray, while also emphasizing the importance of a strong support network when embarking on practices like meditation. Whether you're a novice to the path of self-discovery or a seasoned seeker of wisdom, our conversation is tailored to challenge your perceptions and encourage critical thinking. Grab a coffee and join us for an episode that not only explores the hurdles of learning but offers guidance on navigating them with grace and determination.
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Now here are your hosts, oswin and Lord Knight. So we have a thing in our tradition where we ask are you willing to suffer to learn?
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1What does this mean? What kind of suffering are we talking about? Learning?
Speaker 2should be uncomfortable. If learning is that easy, then are you actually learning it?
Speaker 1so we're not talking about physical pain or no, no, nothing like that hazing or anything like that.
Speaker 2We're we're talking about getting out of your comfort zone getting out of something and that's exactly what we're talking about is you have to get out of your comfort zone in order to learn something? And that's exactly what we're talking about, is you have to get out of your comfort zone. You have to explore ideas and concepts. You might not always like why.
Speaker 2Why is this important? Witchcraft or the traditions that follow it? We believe in objective truth to the point we spawn the sciences because the universe, to us, the universe itself, is the source of creation. You with me, so far, yep, and if we can understand how that works, we can understand the sources better. So when we talk about this stuff, yes, we have to deal with objective truths and see what's inside ourselves.
Speaker 1So by objective truth you mean things that we can prove, Prove Things that we can see.
Speaker 2See, right, all right With theories and other things. And again, don't get me wrong, we're in the realm of religion and stuff like that and there's a lot of the stuff we do that is theory.
Speaker 1Right, there's also a lot of the stuff we do that is theory.
Speaker 2right, there's also a lot of things that are experimentation right, but we still have that scientific in our background right that scientific method right of. Here's how we're going to do this. Here's how the world works. You know weird stuff. We don't believe that there's anything beyond nature. There's just nature.
Speaker 1Okay, so how does?
Speaker 2this make people uncomfortable.
Speaker 1What do you mean? Well, I mean you said that the suffer to learn was all about getting out of your comfort zone and dealing with objective truths, Right? So how does that make people?
Speaker 2uncomfortable when you start dealing with those truths that you hear about. People talk about their truth in themselves. Okay, when you're sitting there and you've noticed yourself doing and sitting there meditating and you finally figure out you're doing behavior that isn't very helpful for you.
Speaker 1Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2Getting down to the point to where, okay, I keep on doing X, y and Z and it's not working for me, okay, to suffer to learn. You're going to have to get out of your comfort zone and do something different, because again, we're back to that whole entire concept of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Right, the definition of insanity. Insanity concept of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Right, the definition of insanity. So, again, you're going to have to get outside your comfort zone. You sat here and watched me this morning. I won't. I sat here and watched a bunch of videos, that of stuff I do not like and do not agree with, and rolling my eyes the whole entire time. Right, but why did I watch them? It wasn't the hate watch.
Speaker 1No, it was for the exposure.
Speaker 2Right, what are they saying now?
Speaker 1There was one that Because there are times when, yeah, you may not agree with them and, yeah, you may roll your eyes, but Every so often, I hear like what we?
Speaker 2I ran across one today. I was kind of like, oh no, and I kept on going back and listening to it a little bit more and a little bit more, right, and you were like, okay, okay, I can see that. I can see this. I understand what you're talking about.
Speaker 1So why do you think it's so hard for people to get out of their comfort zones when they're learning new things, or in order to learn new things? Why are people so reluctant?
Speaker 2Because your emotions are getting involved.
Speaker 1If you haven't learned self-control over your emotions, you're always just going to stumble over them Right, because I was going to say, I mean, our emotions are core to a lot of things that we do.
Speaker 2As long as they're under control, emotions are more like dogs yes, they're wonderful to have and all this, but you have to train them, you have to be able to keep them in control right, that's what I meant.
Speaker 1As long as, as long as we know how to control them nobody wants to control their emotions.
Speaker 2You, you feel something. I am required to express it. You've upset me, so therefore I am required now to express my anger instead of sitting there thinking about what somebody else said first. Right, I see it on TV all day. Doesn't matter which side won, right? It always winds up into a shouting match because people are too busy enjoying their emotions. You've upset their truth. You do see that a lot. All right, there's a difference between your truth and objective reality.
Speaker 1Objective reality always is going to win now? Okay, so let's go down that rabbit hole. Okay, since you brought it up, let's go down that rabbit hole. Okay, since you brought it up. What is the difference between my truth, your truth, somebody else's truth and objective reality? Okay, I'm trying to think, or objective truth.
Speaker 2I'm really trying to think about this. Watch any episode of Lucille Ball. Okay, the way she in the show. She keeps on interpreting certain actions in the completely wrong way, her way, and then assuming it's reality. Okay, yeah, the majority of times. This is the basis of this show. All right, is that Lucy's the red-headed ditzy wife? This is what's going on. Yes, it is. You got to stop. You got to listen to what people are actually saying. You have to ask questions. You cannot go through life, walk in on your lover in bed, have an affair and them looking at you going. Who are you going to blame? Me or your lying eyes?
Speaker 1My lying eyes, of course.
Speaker 2But don't get me wrong. Yes, I do realize that there are sometimes points in a day where other people's viewpoints of certain situations are completely different. Right, that is not an objective reality. That's not a truth. That's just an opinion based on the facts that you have.
Speaker 1Okay, but now could that opinion be considered that person's?
Speaker 2truth. That's basically what they're saying. From my understanding what I'm saying, they're trying to call their opinion truth, or reality.
Speaker 1Okay, so then let's jump down that one. What is the difference between an opinion and someone's objective reality?
Speaker 2Opinions- have very few facts backing them up okay, but are? You with me. Normally, the arguments are always based on emotions. Oh how dare you hurt my feelings? And all this? Well, I'm sorry, the sky's still blue. No, it ain't. My objective truth says this, fuchsia. At the end of the day, this still does not make no sense.
Speaker 2Your objective truth is not changing reality so somebody's personal truth is not objective, right is your personal viewpoint and the reason I have to call it an opinion and not a truth, because a truth is a hard fact. This is a pen. This is a table. This is a pen. This is a table. This is a mic. Those are hard truths. Nothing you say can change that.
Speaker 1Okay, so there could be some things that people perceive one way and it is their personal truth, right, but the majority of the times you're saying it's just opinion. It's opinion because, again, it is just so like if somebody's colorblindblind, for them there is no color green or no color blue or depending on their variety of colorblindness.
Speaker 2Right, but that does not mean, that is their truth.
Speaker 2That's their truth and this is what's going on with them, but it doesn't take away the fact is that there is color in the world, right, where in the world? The argument we're hearing now from a lot of these people is well, I'm colorblind, so therefore color does not exist and y'all need to shut up. That makes okay, this doesn't work. This is not. No, this is not objective truth. It's not what we're doing here, right? All right, so right. So, to break this, to break that, you're going to have to get out of your comfort zone. That means you're going to have to suffer. There's going to be some agony, all right. There's going to be times you're going to be sitting there and you're going to be watching things and you really going to hate what in the world people are saying, rolling your eyes. But again, you're trying to train yourself to withhold your emotions and listen to what's going on first Right In order to be objective, objective in what?
Speaker 2in the world's going on, right, I mean as witches and stuff like this. We have to understand these things because again we're back to the whole counseling. The whole entire thing is we have to understand that when couples come over, we understand there's two different viewpoints here. There's two sides of the conversation, right, and again, like we've talked about before, you don't always know what in the world is going on with the other person.
Speaker 1No, you don't and you won't unless you hear both sides of the story.
Speaker 2You know, that's kind of like, and I'm going to say this it's like me sitting there watching Stranger Things and I was going to say this it's like me sitting there watching Stranger Things and I got frustrated because I'm like you know what, If these people would just stop and talk to each other, I would have had this fed configured out a whole lot longer and everything would have been a whole lot easier. Right, there's the problem.
Speaker 1That's communication.
Speaker 2It's communication. And again notice these people. Even in Stranger Things, the same thing was going on here. Everybody was doing their own thing, based on their objective truth, Right what they thought was going on Well, it was more of their personal Right, not necessarily objective. Right, it's their personal point of view about what. I'm sorry, I said that wrong.
Speaker 1Yeah. I said it earlier too, too, so it's all you know this is not the objective truth.
Speaker 2That they find out later is what in the world's going on right? This is what we're talking. I know it sounds funny to talk about a show this way, but this is what I see going on in the community now people don't want to step outside their comfort zone.
Speaker 2they want to stay inside their bubbles and, as a main tenant of craft, we do not stay inside bubbles. No, we don't. It makes us weak. We have to go out. You're going to have to get uncomfortable. You're going to have to start talking to people you don't necessarily always like or nothing's ever going to change, because doing it what? The way we're doing it now, nothing's changing.
Speaker 1No, and it's just getting worse. And it's true, you know, I took on a situation at work Um, I'm in healthcare and we had, uh, some students come in and one was a little Hispanic lady, right, sweet as can be Asked all kinds of questions, same questions, over and over and over again. I wound up getting placed with her a lot and, yes, it tested my patience, it got me out of my comfort zone, but I believe it's made me a better instructor for somebody else.
Speaker 2I've done the same things. I mean at work. I mean, there's those guys. You sit there, you go, I need you to do this, this and this, and you wind up having to hold their hands. Oh, absolutely, you have to. You need to do step one. This is it. Get step one done, come back. I tell you step two. These people exist.
Speaker 1Yeah, done. Come back I tell you step two these people exist, yeah, and then at some point you got to cut them loose and and hope they survive, and hope they survive, but yeah, so, but no, my point, what that was, is I just because she's no longer there? No, her class is finished, so her clinicals are done. But once I look back and I examined that whole situation, I was like you know what and I got something out of that. Was it comfortable? No, it was incredibly annoying, awkward and annoying.
Speaker 2Yes, oh no. We're not talking about the difference between, you know, banging someone over the head repeatedly with whatever, well, no, have a conversation. And just because I criticize a woman doesn't make me a sexist. Just because I criticize someone who's gay doesn't make me a homophobe, right? Do you see what I'm saying? It's just like right now, in this life, is you, you hear any criticism and you're this long list, long laundry list of evil things, oh of course I mean that's just the nature of the beast nowadays.
Speaker 1and that you're this long list, laundry list of evil things. Oh, of course I mean that's just the nature of the beast nowadays.
Challenging Comfort for Growth in Witchcraft
Speaker 2And you're kind of like. But all I was doing was questioning this practice, this right here. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just asking a question, right, you know, and I'm sorry you don't like where the conversation went or whatever, but that ain't my fault either.
Speaker 1Well, and again, you know, dealing with uncomfortable situations. Uncomfortable people should make us better communicators.
Speaker 2Yes. Because if you don't sit back and you don't examine all of that, Well again, how are we supposed to be the craft of the wise if we will not experience other things Exactly?
Speaker 1All right. I mean you have to experience it and then you have to look back on it and examine the situations and glean something out of it. I mean, if you can't learn something, if you can't learn from your mistakes and you can't learn from those uncomfortable situations, what's the point?
Speaker 2What are we doing? I mean, do you see what I mean? It's kind of like people want it too easy. Yeah, it's sort of like those people. I think all they want is that feeling that you know, that feeling you get when you first fall in love with someone and you just want to suck face all day Right, and as soon as that wears over, they're going on to the next person.
Speaker 1Right, it's that pure euphoric. You didn't have to work for anything, it was just there it's just there. Well, you know, it don't work that way, sunshine, it don't work that way.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's like you know, I was watching that and I didn't watch it all, but they were sitting there talking about initiation. They were like, yeah, this guy wanted me to initiate him. Well, first of all, why anybody, anybody, approached me and want me to initiate them into craft and to a different tradition of craft other than mine? First of all, what, that ain't going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. You're being initiated into this tradition, this temple, this. Here You're us.
Speaker 1Right. Well, I mean, it would be like somebody coming to us and saying hey, I want to be a druid, Okay. Okay, why'd you come to us Exactly? Well, I need the initiation.
Speaker 2Well then, you need to go to the druids well, he kept on explaining that this guy apparently was sitting there thinking that if he got initiated he would automatically have access to all the knowledge. Okay, okay, all right you know what, to get the first initiation it does take a year of prep, of training, of teaching and meditation and all this other stuff At least we've had some who didn't you know. Again, it is a process.
Speaker 1It is a process.
Speaker 2You have to learn before you get initiated. I'm sorry it does not come with initiation no.
Speaker 1No.
Speaker 2No, no, no.
Speaker 1No, I mean my first degree initiation was put off for a while and that was because of various reasons, some of them mine, some of them everybody else's, some of the elders, this is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2What makes you think me as an old guard would initiate you into the Lady Maya's group?
Speaker 1I can't do that, or gardenarians or Alexandrians or any branch of them.
Speaker 2We can't do that. We can't do that.
Speaker 1We're not going to do it.
Speaker 2We're not, and it's not from a willing not to suffer to learn. It's not getting out of our comfort zone. I don't mind sitting down and studying these other initiations and stuff. It's just not my tradition. Here we're having this problem with this. My truth, this is what people are getting into and then they want to fuss when they meet somebody like me or some other people and we go uh no right, it don't work that way.
Speaker 2They don't work. That way. You you want to be initiated in that tradition. You need to go talk to people in that tradition and talk to those high priestesses and get trained.
Speaker 1We can't teach their ways? No, it's not our ways, no, so you want that, you need to go to them.
Speaker 2Again, there's nothing wrong with exploring and learning this stuff, but at some point, people can we least start to realize what logic is. I'm sorry. I see people doing stuff on critical thinking all the time, but I never see anybody actually doing it. Right? It's all this mumbo jumbo and boys can be girls and girls can be boys, and it's never going to happen. Right, the physical bodies are never going to change. Oh, no, no, you know, I don't care if they do it whatever. That's your life, not mine. Right, you know, but that does not make objective reality. That does not.
Speaker 2I'm sorry, that's an uncomfortable truth you, you have to live with, right? Y'all need to get out of your comfort zones, plain and simple. All right, don't care if you like it or don't like it, all right, I mean, on YouTube, all you see are these people doing these hashtag things where all they're doing is patting each other on the back every other week. Right, I mean, there's one each month and it's just a big old circle, jerk Right, going on, and I never see them do anything to get anybody out of their comfort zones on anything, unless it's oh well, let's go try this, let's walk backwards yeah, but there's no purpose to that.
Speaker 2No, no, no they're never going to do a tag. Oh, here's the podcast I I have to. I listen to, but I don't like them.
Speaker 1Well, here's yeah, I mean here. Here's my take on that. When here at life temple, when we, when we teach meditation, we tell people you're going to go through some things and you're going to experience some uncomfortable things, you may be emotional, may be traumatizing, you need to make sure you have a support system. You know we're here for you.
Speaker 2Make sure you've got somebody close to you you know that you can talk to and again, there's a reason for that. We sit there and tell you issues. You think you've got somebody close to you that you can talk to. There's a reason for that.
Speaker 1We sit there and tell you, issues you think you've dealt with will come back up, right, but my point is that is the whole suffer to learn.
Speaker 2Yes.
Speaker 1Because you've got to suffer through those emotions, you've got to suffer through those traumas or whatever else in order to learn how to control it.
Speaker 2Hence the reason everybody wants to do the trance meditation, let the memories and stuff post, because, god forbid, they have to actually go back through that trauma and figure out what in the world really went on Right and how to actually heal from it. Right, we're not going to look at the bad stuff. We're not going to look at the bad stuff we've done or whatever, but you can't do that. We've done or whatever, but you can't do that.
Speaker 1You can't do that and expect to heal in witchcraft.
Speaker 2This is this.
Speaker 1This is a no, no no, we're, we're, we're trying to get you to the point where you can heal yourself right.
Speaker 2You gotta, you gotta dig through all that that emotional trauma and all that I mean even going to therapy and stuff like that these, these people are not doing it for you.
Speaker 1You're having to do it. You got to empty that shit cup, baby. You got to and it's uncomfortable it is, it's very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2And as soon as you get it empty, it will fill right back up.
Speaker 1Yeah, but eventually you get to the point where you learn how to properly deal with it.
Speaker 2Yes, Not just push it down to the side and keep trying to pack it in, not allowing that shit cut. Just get fuller and fuller and fuller.
Speaker 1Right, you know what, if I push it down just a little bit more, I can pack a little bit more in there before it overflows. No, so you can't do that.
Speaker 2You don't do these on transcendental meditations. You have to do a meditation where you go into your memories in there and relive these things. Yep, meditation is not a safe space. Witchcraft is not a safe space. No, it's not. Not like you think, mm-mm. Not these safe spaces and stuff like you see in.
Speaker 1Is it a safe space? As far as you as a person are safe, you're not in any danger. Yes, yes, is it safe as far as we're going to protect you from the bad things?
Speaker 2Or you might not have to. You don't have to hear any bad things here. No bad words, nope.
Speaker 3Oh no, honey, you're going to sit down there.
Speaker 2You meditate and you're going to hear all the things that are in your head. Right.
Speaker 1And we're going to tell you things that you're not going to like. You got to deal with it. You know you've got to learn how to deal with it.
Speaker 2Trust me, I was told a lot of things by Lord men I did not like Right and some other elders along the way.
Speaker 1Yeah, I was going to say not just him, not just him and a lot of other elders. So, yeah, no, it's not a safe space, it's not a safe space like that. Are we out of coffee? Then we are out of coffee. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook.
Speaker 3Discord, Twitter, YouTube and Reddit. We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire, down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days. So walk with me till morning.
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