The Woven Threads of Wiccan Rituals and Raising the Next Generation

Embark on a mystical journey with us as we navigate the cherished rituals and profound traditions of Wicca, unearthing the essence of Wiccanings and their role in the spiritual development of the young ones born into this magical path. We'll unveil the layers of significance these ceremonies hold, beyond mere parental commitment, as they potentially mark the first step in a child's own spiritual voyage. From the mystical transfer of energies to the harmonizing of divine forces in the craft, our discussion weaves through the fabric of what it means to welcome a new soul into a world suffused with magic.

As we raise the veil further, our conversation shifts to the vibrant tapestry of pagan parenting, the communal bonds that bring laughter and support, and the evolving perspectives on guiding the next generation of faithful. Together, we assess the delicate interplay between teaching environmental stewardship and the importance of allowing youths to chart their own spiritual course, free from dogma. In the latter part of our episode, the focus turns to the sacred art of coven creation, as we dissect the responsibilities and challenges faced by those called to lead. This auditory voyage is not just for those well-versed in the Old Ways, but for anyone who seeks a glimpse into a realm where tradition and community converge in the pursuit of spiritual fulfillment.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:23

Welcome to P and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Now here are your hosts, lady Abba and Lord Knight.

Speaker 2 0:34

Okay, Lord Knight, we're going to talk about my favorite subject the wee little babies.

Speaker 3 0:40

The wee little babies. The wee little babies. I'm allergic To what Wee little babes? It's little babies. I'm allergic To what Wee little babes.

Speaker 2 0:48

It's Wickenings.

Speaker 3 0:50

What are they?

Speaker 2 0:51

What are they? It's a damn good question, I mean, are they?

Speaker 3 0:57

actually seriously, are they really a part of the religion? No, I don't believe so. Or was it just something to mimic other?

Speaker 2 1:06

religions. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's all a lot of it is I think it was, you know a way to mirror what happens maybe even slightly flip the bird to. To Christianity? Yeah, probably, but it's also just the idea that you dedicate a child to a faith.

Speaker 3 1:31

Right.

Speaker 2 1:32

So awakening became a way to commit to raising your child Right In craft.

Speaker 3 1:40

Right. For us, it became more about the parents than the child itself.

Speaker 2 1:45

Oh, absolutely. It is an interesting thing, though there's no standardization.

Speaker 3 1:51

No. For the ritual at all. Don't get me wrong. We know some people.

Speaker 2 1:57

They swear by them. Well, I think what's interesting is twofold, twofold one. People get very concerned, right when they have a child, about making sure that it's dedicated to the goddess, but meantime it's like, well, okay, there's not really a rush, right, we're not beating the clock to save this child's immortal soul I mean, yeah, we don't believe that, so right so you could have a wiccaning at the age of two months.

Speaker 2 2:31

You could have a wiccaning at the age of three years. Does it really matter, does it? No, I think, as long as it's done while they're little, that's, that's really the key. I think that what you're doing is introducing some of the magic and the mysteries to them at a very, very young age young age where they become susceptible to certain practices and certain things that adults right well, now let me ask this then, mm-hmm, but they are being exposed to energies. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3 3:07

They are inside of a circle, well, Just ask it.

Speaker 2 3:12

They are, but I think, more important than that, let's go back a step. Is the mother an initiate, Initiate? If you have an initiative craft bringing a baby to term and then bringing it into?

Speaker 3 3:35

this world. What does that mean?

Speaker 2 3:36

means throughout her pregnancy, the baby has been exposed to that energy does it not also mean and I think there are quite a few people that believe this that the baby, by transmutation through the mother, is born an initiate To some degree? Yes, okay, so right, because I mean you literally now have a piece of the initiate's composition. I mean you can call it DNA if you want, but right out there, separate from her. Now, does the same hold true at the moment of conception, if the father is an initiate? I don't know, maybe, possibly. I think there's. I mean something.

Speaker 3 4:25

I mean, it's how well in our traditions they're all more. These things are all placed more at the feet of the women, thinking y'all were the providers of lives, y'all were the ones that are placing that energy there, not us. Well, I know we are to some extent.

Speaker 2 4:56

I mean that's rough, because I feel like that degrades then the seed, the very life-giving force of a male initiate. Okay, it's interesting because, yes, I think most women are just inclined to go.

Speaker 3 5:11

yeah, it's because it's because of the womb the vessel that you know right the divine feminine, but hello the divine masculine right. It does exist there too.

Speaker 2 5:17

I mean there is a connection between father and their kids, and I mean there's so many things that get passed down and I think, when it comes to craft yeah, children who are conceived in it it is a little different, yeah, and I think that that really is the key that they're they're being conceived in craft, yes, which, of course, then already goes down a whole other bunny trail of you know the great right and the sacred nature of sex, and was it a deliberate act of creation? And you know versus whoopsie, oops.

Speaker 2 5:53

Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to take into consideration there, and then the other piece becomes okay. So if, if mom's an initiate and the baby is born into the faith, I mean, yeah, I mean, a wickening is almost unnecessary but now let me ask now, the energy's there.

Speaker 3 6:14

Now again, we typically don't believe that the soul sinks, locks in until that first breath. Right, so that way. Until that happens, anything's for up for grabs. Yeah, all right. So how does that maybe affect someone who was born of craft? This process does it allow more of the soul self to cross over?

Speaker 2 6:40

you mean during awakening or at birth.

Speaker 3 6:43

At birth, hmm, after someone being born this way.

Speaker 2 6:48

That's interesting, I don't know. I mean in theory, we could as a community, potentially as the parents right, be having an influence on how that soul enters that vessel.

Speaker 3 7:08

Yes.

Speaker 2 7:09

And what that soul is exactly? Right, I don't know. It seems logical, though but you're with what I'm saying oh sure, I mean it's at that point right, it's like a track, tracks, like I mean there's something to it, and then the rest is what you teach them what they pick up yeah, but wickenings have become this kind of kind of funny little thing. I mean they're cute. I mean it's not like you're going to sit.

Speaker 3 7:41

It's not like either one of us are going to sit there and go. Oh no, we'll never do that. No, I mean one of our people can go. Hey, wiccan, okay.

Speaker 2 7:50

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a beautiful idea. Yeah, is it necessary? No, is it necessary? No, like, is your child or your family missing anything because the child has not been wiccanned?

Speaker 3 8:07

Would that be the?

Speaker 2 8:08

problem.

Speaker 3 8:10

Now alone, just doing the ritual itself. Yeah, all right, the coven getting together to do this wiccaning, that seems to me that that would bring in more familial ties between the coven members too.

Raising Children in the Pagan Community

Speaker 2 8:24

Oh, of course I mean because at that point I think for us one of the big distinctions is the idea of godparents Right. It's honestly kind of stupid. Yeah, you have an entire coven of godparents, like we're all this child's godparents, so what does that even mean? Right, it's not like you are designating one specific person to help, guide or assist that child in their, their religious upbringing. Should something happen to mom and dad, you have the whole village. Thank you, yeah, so it seems a little odd.

Speaker 3 9:06

Well, well, I I mentioned this because I remember this one time we were we were all at ritual um one of our members had just had a baby had brought it over. The baby cried like two seconds.

Speaker 2 9:18

Five women jumped up and god I was just gonna say that I remember, yeah, vividly. It was so funny because I watched it. I sat back and I and I literally yeah, we, it's not an exaggeration five or six women shot up like their lives depended on it and ran to this bedroom and I was just y'all are going a little bit overmourned, but okay.

Speaker 3 9:44

And what did? Lord Min said Nah, that kid wouldn't be spilt at all in this place. No, no, just leave them be, let them do what they're doing, that's fine.

Speaker 2 9:52

But yeah it's very interesting there is we're not missing out on anything, baby's not missing out on anything, baby's not missing out on anything. And then and then the reality is, if you have a child being brought up in craft from year zero, then more than likely they're being considered for first degree as young as 13.

Speaker 3 10:18

that would be the first real age of right now I have noticed a change in the community as far as teaching kids, raising them pagan like you would like the christians raised their kids in the home nine yards. When we first came into this, there was very big much of a taboo against doing so of course but now I see that less and less Is this. Do you think this is going to be a positive or negative thing for us?

Speaker 2 10:44

Oh, I think it's a combination, because I've seen both sides of it. I've seen the side where you have a kid who's being raised in a very religiously open and they have a lot of freedom to explore and to learn different things, and mom and dad are very big on the idea of yeah, we're not just going to confine you to one faith, we're going to teach you and let you explore and decide later in life. And then I've also seen some situations where it seems like the pagan parents are teaching their kid an awful lot of hate and a lot of mom and dad's anger and distrust of organized religions, of other faiths, of religious communities, starts to greatly influence the child.

Speaker 2 11:42

Yes, and it's a little angry community and that concerns me. That has worried me for quite some time. It has always been, I don't know. It seems counterintuitive to me to take some of the Christian concepts and apply them, even though I don't even think people realize that that's what they're doing. Right, the idea of being a soldier for God and taking up arms and being a soldier for Christ.

Speaker 2 12:12

Right, these are very common ideas in certain Christian sects and so, effectively, that's what you're doing. You're teaching your kid that you know they're supposed to war and defend and Be a little bit more militant. Yeah, but that can be a little scary at such a young age. You're really instilling ideas into these children that they have to fight.

Speaker 3 12:36

Right Now, don't anybody get us wrong, I have no problem with kids learning self-defense. Nope, not at all Whatsoever. I encourage it.

Speaker 2 12:47

My point is merely there is a difference between activism and faith.

Speaker 3 12:51

Thank you.

Speaker 2 12:51

Yes, you can be an activist. You can absolutely be an activist, but do not mistake it for religion.

Speaker 3 12:59

Mixing the two never ends well.

Speaker 2 13:01

I see it a lot now in our community where people are like, yes, they step up, as you know, I'm priest or priestess, so-and-so, or here's my path or here's my beliefs, but on the backs of that there's a whole laundry list of additional titles and things that these individuals are doing that, yeah, really come down to activism and it's like, wait a minute, that's intense, one is political, it's yes, it has social ramifications. But you know, look this, this also still gets me back to I have a lot of issue with the pagans, or that are. You know, we have to heal the earth.

Speaker 3 13:41

We do, I'm not going to go through the laundry list.

Speaker 2 13:44

All right, that's another episode for sure.

Speaker 3 13:47

For sure, that's another episode.

Speaker 2 13:50

But yeah, it's this, you know why. What makes, look, I'm all for. You know, get out there, do a volunteer day of cleanup. You know like, go, pick up, litter, go, you know, do something productive. The benefits, the community, the area, the you know, yes, the planet. But also, let's be realistic, you know. I mean, here we are on the cusp of this eclipse that everybody's talking about. Here we are on the cusp of this eclipse that everybody's talking about. There's been two or three major earthquakes in the last week. You know, trust me, she can take care of her own.

Speaker 3 14:28

We are not required.

Speaker 2 14:30

No, I mean, I do understand the need or the feeling to offset or to be mindful of your environmental impact. Of course, Again.

Speaker 3 14:40

We all want to drink clean water. We all want to breathe clean air. We all want to live in clean areas.

Speaker 2 14:45

Yeah, but again to just have this belief that it's up to us to fix.

Speaker 3 14:54

I was once on a podcast, on a Christian podcast, and the guy asked me he's like what do you think is wrong with the world? My response is what makes you think there's something wrong with the world, just because it's not going the way you like? Right Again, we're back to perspectives.

Speaker 2 15:12

Yeah, yeah, it's a very interesting thing, but I do think modern man gets them all mixed up. It's a very interesting thing, but I do think, you know, modern man gets them all mixed up. It's another discussion. But, yes, but kids, you know they're malleable, they're pliable and I think at any age is a realistic age to foster that interest. They don't have to be dedicated, they don't have to be on a path to initiation to necessarily confirm their early beliefs, not. I think it's more important, truthfully, that we help them to learn not only our cyclical calendar and the holidays and the various, but but in other faiths as well, so they can see the differences, yeah, and the overlap and the and the common, yes. The faiths, yeah, the familiarity, yeah, absolutely. I think it's just more important to expose that child to enough religious content. That's age appropriate, that they're able to function, no matter what's going on?

Speaker 2 16:24

yes, I think that is a far more spiritual path than what we often tend to see, you know I'd actually agree with you.

Speaker 3 16:33

Yeah, you're not ready for some coffee?

Speaker 2 16:36

Sure, always All right. So now that Lord Oswin has started smoking meat, and it's wafting, wafting, wafting in my direction. So now all I want is smoked meaty goodness.

Speaker 3 16:53

Just prop your feet up. We will have it done shortly.

Speaker 2 16:56

I know All right, so let's talk about hiving. We've never talked about hiving. We've never talked about hiving, have we? No? Okay, it's a relatively straightforward process yeah, I mean, it's nothing complicated.

Speaker 3 17:08

There's no secrets here, no, well, it is complicated.

Speaker 2 17:12

There are a few elements of it that are complicated, but yeah, okay, so hiving is really just someone yeah, why?

Speaker 3 17:22

why would somebody want to hide what? What? What's the purpose of it?

Coven Hive Formation and Leadership

Speaker 2 17:27

usually it is because someone of second degree or higher has come to a place in their knowledge of craft where they have begun their own lecture series and they want to teach what they want to teach and it's usually rooted in their mother coven and what they learned as a student, but it's a little different and they want an opportunity to do it their way. I mean, I really feel like that's all it is. The other thing that is common for a hive is that you're moving, and if you're moving out of the area, your only option in many cases is simply to start your own. So that's all. So what's the first step? First step, yeah, because if somebody came to you and was like, I want to hive, that would be the first step.

Speaker 2 18:28

Okay.

Speaker 3 18:29

Hey, I want to meet with y'all and here's my goals. Okay, and this is why. And then we start to facilitate. Okay, and I think, depending on what's going on there, we would handle it maybe a little bit differently.

Speaker 2 18:46

In what way?

Speaker 3 18:46

Well, if they're moving away, I assume they're going to be moving so far away that it's not going to be a-. It's not reasonable yeah, it's not reasonable For them to travel back and forth and it might not even be reasonable for us to go see them on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 18:59

Okay.

Speaker 3 19:00

To get you third, you're sort of supervised Right by Okay. So to get your third, you're sort of supervised Right by your.

Speaker 2 19:05

Elder, elder, typically yeah.

Speaker 3 19:07

So again, you might wind up having to run the mother temple for a little while. To get the experience you need to be a third degree.

Speaker 2 19:17

Yes, that's pretty common yeah.

Speaker 3 19:19

All right Versus someone who, well, I want to go across town.

Speaker 2 19:24

Sure.

Speaker 3 19:24

And nothing funky going on. I'm just slightly different, whatever, and I still want to be part of y'all, but go over here and do my. Yeah Now, that person we could probably go see on a regular basis so they might start their temple. We would just every so often show up for one of the rituals.

Speaker 2 19:43

Yeah. And be an advisor and you know help out with. Usually, honestly, it's more the mundane stuff oh, now that, on the other hand, it's really.

Speaker 2 19:55

I think the first major component of a hive is the infrastructure yep it's getting yourself set up as a 501c3, it's filling out the state and government paperwork, it is determining your tenants. It is you know right, literally your structure, and then determining things like lecture series, right, and those specific components, and it can take a while, it's not a fast thing no, I mean again, this is not something you do not just decide to. No and even the term hive right to be a hive, to be recognized. Hive means that there's no animosity, there's no problem between you and the mother coven.

Speaker 3 20:42

Right.

Speaker 2 20:43

You're now just an affiliate.

Speaker 3 20:46

Right, you're still running. You may even still be running under the same 501c3.

Speaker 2 20:54

That's true. I hadn't thought about that.

Speaker 3 20:56

All right. So again, that's an up from coming off. A traditional group that has it is that they can extend it to you once you get to a certain Right, and you just become another location in which the coven operates.

Speaker 2 21:08

Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting process. You know, not everybody is meant to do it, not everyone's meant to lead. No, a lot of people have a very strong pull for that. Typically speaking, once everything is set up if I'm not mistaken right, it's the first year in a day you are completely under the you have an elder breathing down your neck.

Speaker 3 21:37

Yeah, yeah, just to be quite honest with you yeah, they're in your affairs, right, they're in everything well, and again, you can't blame us, on the other hand, because again that that 501c falls on us well, sure it's also a reflection it's a reflection of the elder and what they've done out in the community in a new way and they've got to make sure that that these people are not in jeopardizing by doing something.

Speaker 4 22:02

They're not supposed to be doing.

Speaker 2 22:10

I mean again the federal government gets upset when you don't do these finances quite correctly. Yeah, no, kidding. Well. And also, I think it's not until someone starts their own group or takes over a group that they really begin to understand all of the intricacies of what goes on I suppose that grass is always green on the other side.

Speaker 3 22:28

Oh dear god, yes, until you get there yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2 22:32

I mean I, I caution against it because I'm I'm always like, listen, you become at some point almost so involved in the administrative that you lose some of your own spiritual quest in the process. Yeah, the mundane can really take over. Oh, it's easily done and it sucks you yourself, ironically, can become disenfranchised by franchising.

Speaker 3 22:59

Yes.

Speaker 2 23:00

Yeah, that being said said, it can be fulfilling, it can be worthwhile.

Speaker 3 23:09

it definitely changes the root coven's position in the the community yes, once you've got people hiving off of you, you also get that extra buckle mm-hmm well, have we ever talked about the the garter?

Speaker 2 23:26

I don't know.

Speaker 3 23:27

Yeah, you also get that extra buckle.

Speaker 2 23:28

Mm-hmm. Well, have we ever talked about the garter? No, I don't know. No, for us it's the understanding that a priestess who has directly hived other groups wears a garter the initial buckle represents the main coven, her institution. Buckles are added as each hive, as each hive happens. Now, what I've seen in recent years is some groups um, I don't want to name specifics, just in case I don't know. I think some people are in favor of the garter switching to bracelets and like the charm bracelet but, yes, something that's basically the same idea.

Speaker 2 24:09

This is the loop right, the main binding, and then here are my babies right off of it. Yeah, I've seen ankle bracelets.

Speaker 2 24:18

I've seen, you know, different variations thereof um, I mean, I still like the tradition being kept up regardless yeah, it's actually something that I've had a talk with a few different priestesses as they're coming up about, because it seems to get people really confused of, like, well, how do I get a leather? You know like a leather belt for my thigh and I'm like, easy, a dog collar? Yeah, I know that sounds ridiculous, but yes, you go to pet smart and you measure your own thigh up against a leather dog collar that can be added to and adjusted over time. Yes, yeah, and it works quite well. Good figure. Yeah, and truthfully it's. It's going to be a little bit more comfortable than just having like a rigid piece of leather tooled for the job, although, that can work too.

Speaker 3 25:08

I'm sorry. Go to any tractor supply place. Yeah, they have.

Speaker 2 25:13

Well, bear in mind, tractor supply doesn't exist everywhere. I know, I know that's hard for you to believe. I know, I know, I know. I had never seen a tractor supply before moving down here I was literally like holy shit. They sell tractors and supplies. Yeah, I was stunned when I went in one and I was like this is fun um a witch could get in trouble yeah, but they're, but, but they're, they're, they're dog, but their dog stuff is excellent.

Speaker 2 25:44

Yeah, you could do that. I've also seen Renfest usually has at least one or two leather merchants that customize. Yeah, yeah, and you could always have one of them do it. They're thrilled to. But, boy, are you going to pay for it?

Speaker 3 25:57

Yep.

Speaker 2 25:59

Yeah, and then I think it's one of the few things that's passed on. Yes, yeah, it's not of the few things that's passed on. Yes, yeah, it's not destroyed upon your passing, it's actually given to whoever?

Speaker 3 26:10

takes over, takes over.

Speaker 2 26:12

And they just continue it and keep adding to it.

Speaker 3 26:14

Still love that idea. Yeah, yeah, but you know I can actually see it get to the point to where, well, we still have the bracelet. I do wear it but it just sort of sits on its own little cart because we can't pick it up anymore.

Speaker 2 26:25

Yeah, it's too. It's too heavy to wear. Practically could see that happening. Actually the hiving process, I think nowadays I think there's less hiving happening.

Speaker 3 26:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2 26:40

But I think more often now, what we do see is, when a group becomes too large, it's almost a forced hive, because I mean, let's be honest, if our group was pushing 20 members that were active every single month, we'd be in trouble.

Speaker 3 27:02

I wouldn't have a clue.

Speaker 2 27:03

No, we would be on that. And I mean, I feel like for most of us that's it Between 20 and 30 is really the time where you have to go. Either we're going to have to really change the administrative of how we run this, or we're going to have to split the group in two. Right, yeah, we'll come together for the big stuff, but for the common day to day, yeah.

Speaker 3 27:27

Well, again, this is from my understanding that's what originally started the gathers.

Speaker 2 27:32

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 27:33

I mean more like a homecoming.

Speaker 2 27:35

Yeah, and you figure, I mean people think it's. When they hear us say it, when they hear you know that it's only, on average, between 10 and 15 people participating in a typical event, I think people go, oh, that's so few. And you're like, yeah, it's really not. Though no, it's not. Not when you're as hands-on as we tend to be. It's a lot. It's a lot, especially running out of someone's house usually.

Speaker 3 28:01

Yeah, I mean, everybody has lives, everybody has different ways of doing things. A lot of these people are married to people who are not of their faith.

Speaker 2 28:10

Yeah.

Speaker 3 28:11

So you've got a lot of households where you're still having to do all the Christian things and go out to all the Christian holidays and still go to all of ours.

Speaker 2 28:21

It is. It's a lot and we still see where. I hate to say it, but the majority of members, the mundane, is still first. Yes, there's so many people and there's a rare few that dedicate ourselves to the other side. I mean, look, I say it all the time I can't wait till I can actually retire from working because I can read the books I've been wanting to read and I can do things for the lecture series that I haven't been able to dedicate my time. I literally, in a way, realize retirement is going to be how I dedicate myself to craft fully, and that's wild to think, but yeah.

Speaker 3 29:02

Did we not see our elders do the same thing?

Speaker 2 29:06

Definitely.

Speaker 3 29:06

I mean after Lord Min retired, he threw himself into it. Oh my goodness did he ever?

Speaker 2 29:11

Oh boy, that was crazy.

Speaker 3 29:14

To the point where we're kind of like, uh, maybe you should just calm down.

Speaker 2 29:20

Lady santana was in her 70s and you would never have known that she wasn't still running the show. It kind of seemed like it from the outside. I mean honestly, yeah, as a first degree I was like what do you mean? You're not active. This is pretty damn active.

Speaker 3 29:42

When you sit there and see Lady Maya turn around to her high priestess and start acting like you're sitting back going seriously, you're telling me she's not pulling the strings.

Speaker 2 29:53

Yeah, just a little she's not pulling the string. Yeah, just a little, isn't that? It's the craziest thing, and she really did. I mean, till up until the end she was always like taking phone calls and helping with, you know, lectures and guest writing, just, and they were little things, but it was so frequent and it was with such regularity that it was hard to believe that she was quote unquote.

Speaker 2 30:18

She was retired from craft, whatever that means okay yeah, but I also think the hiving process for the person that is the origination of the hive it's stressful. It's very stressful because you have to be aware of what your daughter covens are up to all the time, yep all the time, and that never really ceases. You never get to you.

Speaker 3 30:50

You always worry for that. Well, such and such coven was out and this is is and you're going, oh god yeah, you're always, always, always, and I hate to say it, but sometimes right.

Speaker 2 31:04

When a baby is forced to fly the nest, they make mistakes and then that has to be reined in and somebody has to figure out what needs to be done to fix it. Sometimes it's minor and sometimes it's major and it just depending. Yeah, it's a lot of stress, and then you go, okay, now I have to go deal with this and your own group effectively gets put on hold when you go deal yeah, while you go do that, it's kind of wild, and the more of them there are, I don't think you take vacations anymore.

Speaker 2 31:41

You just bop around and visit your covens. It's really all that's left to do.

Speaker 3 31:50

Yeah, you just hope you have enough for each one for a different sabbath I mean, I guess, right, like what?

Speaker 2 31:57

what other choice is there really anything else about hiving?

Speaker 3 32:03

that's I don't think so. I just wanted to make sure people understood. It's not always a bad thing.

Speaker 2 32:10

In fact, I never thought of it as no, no, I don't think so either, because I mean, if somebody is like really pounding their fist, you, you know, kind of going like I want to do my own thing, I want to hive. That's your. No, you're not ready.

Speaker 3 32:23

No, no, no, no, and the indication would be the tension tension.

Speaker 2 32:28

Yes, yeah, it's absolutely. It's the. It's the. It's the feeling of the need of I know something better and I know another way, and I'm gonna go prove it. Okay, well, let me know how that works all right, because I know how it ends yeah, but often, often, I think when that happens it's less of a hive and just more the blessing to say, okay, go forth, but I'm not necessarily claiming you yet.

Speaker 3 33:01

No, you can go off and do whatever you want, but it doesn't necessarily mean you have our umbrella either.

Speaker 2 33:06

Yeah, that's the key, mm-hmm. So, and those umbrellas become important. Yep, yeah.

Speaker 3 33:14

Want some more coffee? Yeah, come on, unicorn.

Speaker 1 33:19

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Speaker 4 33:36

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning.