Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk
Church and State: Controversies and Education Reform
Can the separation of church and state survive recent legislative actions in Louisiana and Oklahoma? This episode confronts this pressing question head-on, examining the controversial mandates for displaying the Ten Commandments and Bible teachings in public schools. We take a closer look at the legal and social ramifications of these decisions, and how the Satanic Temple is pushing back for religious equality. The conversation also moves into personal territories, exploring how religious texts play into the swearing of oaths, and suggesting more inclusive alternatives like emphasizing the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.
Shifting gears, we tackle the complex state of public education and propose radical alternatives. From homeschooling to learning pods, we weigh the positives and negatives through personal anecdotes and discuss the potential of a simplified, core-focused curriculum. We also debate the merits of year-round schooling to combat educational backsliding and stress the critical role of engaged parents in shaping their children's learning experiences. So grab a large cup of java for this intriguing conversation.
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Now here are your hosts, lady Abba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 4:Okay Well, Lord Knight, there used to be this lovely thing called church and state. Remember when that was a thing.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I love that idea, the separation of church and state.
Speaker 4:I don't know why I just turned into Fran Drescher. What is happening? We got two states in the news right now.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 4:So Louisiana started it. Yeah, Good job Louisiana. They passed a bill to put the 10 commandments in every single classroom.
Speaker 2:Right, Sorry the.
Speaker 4:Ten Commandments in every single classroom in the state, which is super fun because it still doesn't fix the fact that you're like 50th in the country for education. Yeah, they're at the bottom.
Speaker 1:I'm not even going to start talking about the American education system.
Speaker 4:I know, I know. And then, as if that wasn't enough, good old Oklahomaoma stepped up to the plate and said hold my beer and um, oklahoma passed a bill that now requires schools to teach the bible now, is it wrong of me to sit here and say this part of me is not worried about it, because I know what the satanic church is going to do?
Speaker 4:well, and that's the funny thing, right? So the, the satanists are all on top of this, which I think, again, is funny. We've talked about this in past episodes. Just in case you guys don't know, the satanists we are talking about are the ones that operate out of salem, massachusetts. They are, yes, recognized as a legal religion, they're brilliant, but it's really a political movement, and what they're trying to fight for is equality and religious freedoms, and you know basically this, this idea of stop telling us what we can and can't do with our bodies, our rights, or you know everything, right and so big l libertarian, oh yeah absolutely, and the thing that they have really been promoting and pushing is this idea of equality with religion in regard to schools, and so they have this phenomenal little pamphlet, tiny little book about the laws in question, and, uh, basically it's pretty straightforward.
Speaker 4:They operate from the position of if you are going to force a particular religion on two children, then you have to be fair about it and you have to represent other religions. So here you go, here's a guide on satanism. Introduce it into your curriculum, congratulations, right, and everyone loses their ever-living shit because most people don't understand how laws and rules not a clue, not and laws are set up.
Speaker 1:If one can do it, we all can do it. If one can't do it, none of us can do it funny.
Speaker 4:That sounds a little bit like how a temple operates. Funny, huh, looky, looky, go figure yeah.
Speaker 1:Now here's my question Do you think this is more of a reaction from the extreme things that we've seen in the country in the past couple of years?
Speaker 4:I think it is. Yes, I think it is very plainly. There is a group of extreme conservatives who, with a lot of these recent changes obviously what's happening, happening with politicals and our presidential candidates and all of that who have just gone we can do this now we can.
Speaker 1:We can reclaim the puritan origins of our country and um, it's gross well, what I find funny is is that these people do not seem to understand. The same thing happens in reverse. That happened on the left, where you have a group of people that all come together because they have certain beliefs together, but as those beliefs get more and more specific, more and more people drop off because they don't completely agree on that.
Speaker 4:Either way, it's just. Instead of just letting these things lie right and going. You know what? What I do in the privacy of my own home is my business in regard to my family and my children, they feel this incessant need to impose these things on other people.
Speaker 1:Why? Well, let me ask you this, okay, while I know me and you do not agree with the Ten Commandments in their entirety, right I?
Speaker 4:mean I mostly agree with them but I get what you're saying.
Speaker 1:I mostly agree with them. Would something else be better? Because, again, as a country country, we used to have certain morals or ethics in line with one another, because it seems like to me like that it seems like to me, instead of the ten commandments, would it not make better sense to do the um bill of rights? I mean because technically those are based on the ten but made more neutral.
Speaker 4:I mean there's that, there's the Constitution. I mean there's any number of ways that this could be.
Speaker 1:Better done.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and it's just bizarre.
Speaker 4:Look, I remember when I was a teenager, I was such, I mean, I was such an asshole, I was already leaning you know, pagan and so, um, you know, when we were doing law and court systems like right, we were learning about judicial crap and you know, and one of the whole things was we would do like mock trials and you know, you had to swear on the Bible and I would go no, I don't, nope, and it was a huge to do because I was like I'm not putting my hand on that book and swearing anything because I don't believe in its contents. So to do so I would already be perjuring myself, I'd be lying and what did the school system say?
Speaker 4:it was a. It was, but ultimately, yes, the history teacher that ran that was like she's not wrong, so it basically becomes okay. Do you simply swear to take an oath? Yes, but a Bible was an unnecessary component. But now I I mean these ideas. So you know, the superintendent of schools in oklahoma it's really funny because if you go to youtube you can find it went on a rant about how that satanists will not be taught in our school. This is not going to happen. This is not going to happen. In, like you know, he goes off and the satanic temple responded. I told you about this by taking one of the clips from schoolhouse rock that's, you know, 30 plus years old. That was literally the laws of the constitution and and said here, let us, let us educate you, superintendent of schools it's so funny to me, but what's not funny is yeah, it's there's.
Speaker 4:There's no balance and there's no equality to this. So if, if they're gonna start doing this, what about the muslim kids? What about the jewish kids? What about the pagan kids? What, like all the other, the buddhists, the taoists, right, all the other the Buddhists, the Taoists where, where is the other religious representation going to come from? It is a ridiculous idea that still we feel we have to shove this 2000 year old book.
Speaker 1:The only body's thought yeah.
Speaker 4:Onto people. I do not understand it and this concept of I don't know, this Christian idealism that basically wants to wipe every other faith off the map. It's out of control. Well, I mean, it's not just Christianity that wants to do the same thing either I mean that's true, I guess in other countries you see the other side of the coin. I mean, as far as I know, christianity that wants to do the same thing. Either I mean that's true, I guess in other countries you see the other side of the coin.
Speaker 1:I mean, as far as I know, Muslims want to do the same thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, you're right, I mean for their prophecy to come true.
Speaker 1:That's what has to happen, the whole world has to become Muslim.
Speaker 4:But it's so. I mean, I don't know. I just every time I feel like we've evolved. This happens it's like two steps back. Yeah, yeah, you know, it really does always kind of make me wonder. Right, if we showed up at the local school district and, you know, went here, you go there, nobody's gonna be like, oh yeah, we'll introduce this immediately.
Speaker 1:No, no, so I mean, but again, I don't know too many pagans that would actually do that.
Speaker 4:I mean I would, but only in political response, right, but this brings me to, you know, the crusading, proselytizing. Understand why so many christians believe it is their literal mission to convert other people it's mandated in the religion itself but how did that become a thing? I mean, I get it early on, right, that was how you convert, that was how you got, that was how you got numbers.
Speaker 1:That was how you grew. You went out, ministered to.
Speaker 4:But to continue that practice, I just I don't get it.
Speaker 1:Now, let me ask you Now. We've been talking about this.
Speaker 4:Now in the schools.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, now what about the clubs?
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:If a school, random school, a bunch of kids got together and got, hey, we want to have a Christian club.
Speaker 4:And that's another part of this debate. Absolutely I have no problem with that. Now again, with.
Speaker 1:That said, if a group of kids get together, go. Hey, we want to have a pagan club.
Speaker 4:Well, and there it is. The Satanists actually have an after school program that you can adopt, right, and that I would be in favor of. To me, that is no interest. That is no different than any other extracurricular interest.
Speaker 1:Because then you have to volunteer to go into it. Exactly, Exactly.
Speaker 4:One would hope at that point those kids are there voluntarily and of their own wants or desires, versus someone forcing them to do it ignoring the parent.
Speaker 1:Yeah and yes that we, their parents, do that they do, they do.
Speaker 4:But you know, that's why I said I would hope you would hope but I mean I also look at the other piece of this is are children going to be given the choice or the opportunity to be excused from those lessons? Are they going to be, or will they be, punished? I mean, we've also seen this mirrored in the prison system in this country, where it is very common for there to be a literal Christian mass held in the prison and they try to make it mandatory that everyone attend, regardless of their faith.
Speaker 4:And there's so many people incarcerated going. No, I don't want why. Why would? That's not my religion?
Speaker 1:I mean, to me this seems like a lawsuit to start off but?
Speaker 4:but yet these things continue to happen. And and in the prison system and in jail populations, those inmates that are excused and, and you know, they basically get told okay, fine, you don't want to attend because it's you don't align with the faith, but they're punished for it. They're not given an alternative. They're given solitary confinement or they're given, you know, some, some other ridiculous means of isolation where you go. What right so you're? You're literally, you're singling these people out and you're punishing them because they don't want to be preached to.
Speaker 1:If it's not part of this faith, you're not going to.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's awful, and so I'm like what's going to happen with these kids? And what's really funny about this is we're moving in a direction where modern society right, less and less and less parents are enforcing religion upon their kids and are taking their kids to church regularly. We're seeing that loosening of society, and so that's the funny right, is this? The conservative response to that is this it could be yeah you know it could well.
Speaker 4:Why are these parents not up in arms? Why are they not just absolutely livid that this is going on? Or do they just think there's no hope of fighting back?
Speaker 1:or do we just not go on that and research that side of the story? We only?
Speaker 4:I mean, I'm sorry, I listen to a lot of these stories and that's all I ever hear you're right, and I mean, and I don't live in lojoma, so it's not like right you know I don't have a kid in the school district, so it's not like you know, I don't have a kid in the school district, so it's not like I would know if there's some I don't know coalition or something trying to rally against this, because there very well could be.
Speaker 1:I mean there's always a coalition rallying in the United States to do something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Me personally. My feelings on all of this is I personally think this whole public school system needs to be burnt down and forgotten about, and parents need to go back to directly educating their kids.
Speaker 4:Ooh, that's a wild statement. Either homeschooling or pods, and all this.
Speaker 1:This is getting to be bullshit.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 1:Because, again, kids are being exposed to stuff that parents don't want them exposed to. I've been through the school system, the whole nine yards. It sucks Wow. When kids come out and they can't read, when they come out and they don't understand math, when they come out and they don't understand why. One times one is one.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they don't understand the logic of the math behind them.
Speaker 4:You know, it's such a strange thing was very fortunate. I had a great public school education. I had a phenomenal public school education, like I still believe for me.
Speaker 1:I'll just say that I can sit there and say the same thing. I mean, I was in special ed.
Speaker 4:I got special tutors and all this other stuff but it wasn't exactly what I needed.
Speaker 1:What I think I would have needed, or done better with, is if I was homeschool and my mom could curtail my whole entire day, based on my learning style.
Speaker 4:But that also puts a huge burden on parents that they can't all do that right. They have to work. There's not always the ability for them to homeschool their children.
Speaker 1:No, but again. Like I said, the pods and all that Again. Instead of that tax money going there, can the parents put the money back in their pocket and find the right education for their kids?
Speaker 4:You know that's interesting because some places in the country have created their own little municipalities where they've done that.
Speaker 1:Some of these places during, like during uh covid and stuff, in these uh complex buildings. Yeah, they created what they called a par. They took a room, made a school out of it and all the kids just went to eat. Yeah, all the parents pulled their money together and got uh teachers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, it's interesting because I half agree with you. I think that that is definitely one possibility, but I think the other is that the public school system needs to be completely stripped down to just the basics again. Yeah, math, science, english, you know physical education.
Speaker 1:Let the parents worry about philosophy and yes, and all the rest.
Speaker 4:Well, here's the other thing. It's not even necessarily the parents. That's what college is for. There is a reason that higher education right comes with electives and comes with the opportunity to pick and choose. But school-age kids, it should be very, very simplistic. It should be very, very simplistic. It should be regimented, at least until high school. Yeah, at least until then, because if that was focused more, I really do think, yeah, we would have better outcomes. It's more in line with what China does and, let's be honest, they kick our ever living ass when it comes to academics, I'm still.
Speaker 1:comes to academics, I'm still back to. I remember why we have the summers often in the United States. It was supposed to be for when farming families needed the kids to help during the harvest. Yeah, we don't do that anymore. Why are our kids not going to school?
Speaker 4:That's interesting.
Speaker 1:Even back into my generation.
Speaker 4:Yes, there are. So my stepkids were actually raised in a district that went to year round schooling because they saw absolutely no reason for it, and you're right. The other thing is the idea of summer break has changed so much, in the sense that it used to be a very physically active time. Kids would go outside, they would play, there were sports. Now these kids are like stuck indoors with gaming systems and YouTube and I'm like stop it. What the hell is going on? Yeah, it's just a waste. And so what it does is it gives them plenty of time to get lazy and disdain the idea of going back to school in the fall. Instead, when you switch to the year-round system, you just give them longer breaks throughout the year. They get, you know, two and a half weeks at christmas. They get two and a half weeks in spring. They get a. They get every semester. Basically, they get a small reprieve. Great, do that?
Speaker 1:Well, see, like Lady Keegan Now she homeschools. Yeah, but I know she sets her kids up. They actually do school all year round. Mm-hmm, they'll do like four weeks and then she'll take like two weeks off and then do yeah.
Speaker 4:Makes way more sense to me.
Speaker 1:But I mean, I know her youngest and I'm trying to give out info, but he's a little hyper and she doesn't give him any medication because she changes his behavior and stuff to where he can run outside and play for a little while, come back inside, do a little bit more work.
Speaker 4:Well, that's it. It's being adaptive to the child and their style of learning, but it's still making sure that the focus is on the things that they really need to learn. Yeah, and I mean those basics to succeed. I mean, I'm sorry, I'm always like what do you mean? You're 14 and you don't know how to read a map.
Speaker 1:When you can't understand the concepts of quarters.
Speaker 4:You should.
Speaker 1:Basic algebra. Understand the concepts of quarters.
Speaker 4:You should that the basic algebra, the basic that the word quarter represents. One-fourth right basic algebra basic algebra.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've seen so many people going, so how long is a quarter of an hour 25 minutes?
Speaker 4:holy shit and you're like what?
Speaker 1:what oh we? A quarter of a 60 minutes is not no, holy crap all right. So again, this is, I think, is what our problem is. We're too busy focusing on all the social.
Speaker 4:We're not actually given an education yeah, also I will say I do think you know, moms and dads have checked out a little bit they're not as present in their children's education. They're not, they're just unaware. And and that lack of awareness, that blind faith or trust in the school, is part of the problem here.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's that blind expecting the numbers or the rating numbers on music and movies to be correct.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's an interesting point. Yeah, we can't. You're right, we can't, we can't trust.
Speaker 1:No Again. Gen X. Authority, no Trust, no one Trust no one man. I'm Authority no Trust, no one Trust, no one.
Speaker 4:Man, I'm all hopped up. I need, you know, I need more coffee, but I think it's got to be decaf. Oh Lord, I know I admit defeat.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Episode Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook.
Speaker 3:Discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit. Don't admire, just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires, and so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning.
