Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Choosing Civility in Divisive Times
Lady Alba and Lord Night explore the intense feelings that bubble up post-election, pondering whether they are a natural reaction or something deeper. We offer insights on staying grounded when emotions urge us to make radical decisions, like distancing from family or thinking about emigration. For those who feel particularly vulnerable, we highlight the power of mindfulness to recognize that fears, no matter how overwhelming, are fleeting.
Are our choices truly our own, or are they shaped by past experiences? With a keen eye on determinism versus free will, we discuss how our perceptions are molded by the past and how they influence our responses to societal shifts. We share stories, such as the aftermath of a natural disaster in North Carolina, to illustrate how people react differently to the same events. By reflecting on everyday actions and the impact of kindness, we encourage listeners to cherish life's small wonders and find peace, even when conversations turn political or uncomfortable.
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Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Now here are your hosts, lady Abba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 3:So, lord Knight, we're not going to talk politics. We're not, we're not. We're going to make that very clear no politics. But we do want to talk about post-election and what I can only call pagan passion. Yes, all right there's some stuff going on all right.
Speaker 4:And now again, I just like you, I'm not going to sit here and fault anyone for having their emotions and feeling them.
Speaker 3:No, feel them.
Speaker 4:Feel your feelings, yes all right, but this seems to be a little bit more upsetting than most. What in the world's going on? And I think this is starting to get into the territory of making decisions after people die, after big advance, and it's not a good thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people are highly, highly emotional and people have very strong opinions, and that is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But the news and what we're seeing in the trends are startling. Right, people are committing acts of crime.
Speaker 4:Violence.
Speaker 3:People are disowning, ignoring or distancing themselves from family, or distancing themselves from family the. The biggest thing that's important in all of this for people to remember is, while, yes, it may result in some difficult situations in the coming months or years, two, two things I think are critical. The first is it's temporary. Yes, because everything's temporary, nothing's permanent, nothing lasts forever, so the pendulum will swing again, yes. The other is the emotional distress. There has to be a point where, instead of continuing to fan the flame of what ifs right and the what could happen, we have to stop and and like right now, right, right. This second where are we? You and I are sitting in a chair, or say, well, not a chair, two chairs. We're not in the same chair, folks, we're sitting in chairs. We are in your house, we are in front of these microphones, we are having a conversation, I have coffee, you're in your pjs, like that is our reality right now. Yes, is anything burning?
Speaker 3:no right is anything. Is there smoke? No?
Speaker 4:no smoke, no nothing. Yeah, this again, everybody's, everybody's, working themselves over womanism. They're ruminating, yeah, absolutely, and you're going to drive yourself insane that way.
Speaker 3:Yes, and people do. That's the problem. So being in the moment, being mindful, right which is something that we preach an awful lot in craft. Exactly being mindful, being in the moment, is about stopping and taking stock of literally where are you, what is happening? Right this second, like right this second. I just glanced out the window and saw a big, fat blue jay land on a branch. That's where I am right this moment what else matters?
Speaker 3:well, it's not. It's not so much of what else matters, it's. I'm okay. Yes, no one is. My civil liberties are not in danger right this moment. No one is right. There is no threat in my world. And it's stopping to recognize that, while, yes, there may be, may may be something that happens in the future, it's not right now, no, and so a lot of these ideas of what a new administration might do, could do, it's, it's getting to be a little wacky, right, we we've got to stop and take stock of what is and what isn't. I know that people are scared. I know that there are concerns Me personally. I have friends right now who are literally talking about fleeing the country, and I'm going. Why?
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, I keep on hearing people divorcing their spouse over this. Again, let's take a moment, calm down. You're going to ruin your whole life because you have.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh and that's it. You're going to ruin your whole life because you have uh-huh and that's it. It's, it's. You're potentially blowing up your life literally, figuratively, whatever it might be, over something that's a maybe there's something about it that's akin to like a big stock market crash, yeah, and when people panic and, you know, freak out, but I just don't feel like, in this exact moment, anyone is really having a specific effect. I don't know, I don't know it's. Look, I have, like I said, I have some friends, multiple friends, multiple sets of friends, families who are really talking about, you know, leaving passports ready, looking into getting visas, all this stuff. One, one of these uh families, they have two trans children and this is their big fear, right, like our children aren't safe. But I'm like, is that really true? Is?
Speaker 3:it opening the door for it to be okay. Okay, all right. I'm quoting in quotes to marginalize that group further and to I mean, I hate to say it, but to bully them. To be mean, you know, people feel people in the conservative parties right now might feel empowered to be assholes ultimately.
Speaker 4:But I mean, but I hate to be this way. If you flip the coin, couldn't the same thing be said about the other Of course it could, of course it could, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:There's there's so much here that I think it's sticky. Right, it's sticky and it's not look, it's not good, it's not fun, it's not. Nobody's happy with this. I don't think I mean other than a select group. But we still have to be realistic about what is going on. Where are we? What's really happening in this moment? Moment, you know? I mean I saw it all. I mean you know, and, and witches are interesting, because every political election, every major right, I see they start holding vigils, they start, right, we've seen, uh, I've seen more things about spells being cast.
Speaker 4:Oh, absolutely you absolutely.
Speaker 3:I'm burning my candles and circles are being cast. Oh boy, You're trying to turn a tidal wave.
Speaker 4:Right, I mean because this brings up an interesting thing. When we are talking about magic and spirituality, when do we give up the ghost? I mean, we we rarely, especially in the pagan community, and there's really. We rarely want to tell people no, that's just not you. Or we want to encourage people to keep on trying, but at some point you're right. You, I'm never going to become a rock star, all right. I am never going to become a scientist star, all right. I am never going to become a scientist, all right. I mean, are you with me? There are just some things that people have to realize that they can't do. But when do you do that? When do you actually say, ok, this is a time to give up on this, this is the time to let go?
Speaker 3:Well, I think there's the difference it's. Letting go and giving up are two different things. Letting go is is is, letting go is acceptance okay letting go is saying this is beyond my control, this is beyond right. This is the serenity god grant me the ability to recognize the things that I can change, those that I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference. Right, I guess what I'm asking you where is that line?
Speaker 3:but there it is, it's but that's it at the. At the end of the day, what can we control? Sure, let's go through it. We control our thoughts right, our actions, our environment in, in the sense of if I do not like my environment, I can leave it right.
Speaker 4:Right, I can choose you, we can change it. If'm cold, I can turn on the heat Right.
Speaker 3:Or literally I can physically change my location Exactly. We can change how we react.
Speaker 4:To things.
Speaker 3:Yes, but there's loads of things that we can't change, as a matter of fact, are. There are countless memes about this? Um, I'm gonna I'm gonna look this up really fast because it's funny. I almost bought this. It was, it's a little, not for myself, but because they're. This is that common right now. There's all these little trinkets on the market, that kind of here you go, things you can control here's a great one when you ask for help. What you eat, the boundaries you set, who you follow, how you speak to yourself, your sleeping routine okay, right. And then it's things like um, how I challenge myself right. How I handle myself, how I set goals okay, things out of my control. The actions of others oh, here's a good one. The past that gave me a little. I think I got gut checked on that one uh. The outcome of my efforts. The future, how others, how others take care of themselves oh, here's another one. That's really good. How other people think of me this is actually.
Speaker 4:I think this is a whole lot simpler to break this up hold on the opinions of others, I mean.
Speaker 3:But I think this is important. You're right, it can be simplified, of course it can.
Speaker 4:You can control yourself, you cannot control others. I mean, that's what it comes down to, yeah.
Speaker 3:But that's just it. We're given a false sense of what we can achieve. We're given this weird false sense of what we can do. Right, so we have a democracy in this country, right, Democracy? The idea of voting it gives us a false sense of what we can influence and what we can change. Can we? Is it important? Yes, Can we influence it? But it's not influence, it is having a say.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:That's the right. That's what a vote does. It has given you an opportunity to have a say. Right, that's the right. That's what a vote does. It has given you an opportunity to have a say. It does not mean that you yourself are influencing Anything. Kinda, yeah, there's a false notion in modern man of that we can change, we can do, like all of these things that we're supposed to be able to do or change or affect. I'm like, not really.
Speaker 4:I mean the majority of times, especially when you get into the realm of science, we're barely hanging on to the tiger's tail in this scenario. Well, I mean, there's a lot of forces and stuff in this world we're messing with.
Speaker 3:We not quite sure what we're doing it's funny you say that there's a really great article that I've been. We do not have free will.
Speaker 4:Ooh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's fascinating. It was really, really interesting. Now is this the one?
Speaker 4:where it basically comes down to, because you're influenced by your parents and them raising you, that you're technically part of their personality and not your own you the the crux of this, if I can, if I can sum it up right.
Speaker 3:I'm going to try to do my best to sum it up, but this was a washington post article and I'm sure you guys can look it up. There is there was one scientist sort of heading up the movement, but others have kind of joined on to believe this. It basically is the culmination of everything in your life not just your parents everything, everything you've been exposed to, everything you've learned, everything you've witnessed it's back to the concept.
Speaker 3:You are the sums of your experience yeah, you are the sum of your parts exactly, and as a result of that, we do not have free will. We think we do, but all of those things have predetermined and have mapped our decision-making and how we will go about them, and science has it's almost mathematics, right, it's. We've been able to computate how someone will react or respond and the decisions that they will make based on those factors.
Speaker 4:Again, Facebook knows when you go poop.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's so much data about us that is predictable, and that's the thing Pagans often don't like that. Pagans still, we still want to believe so strongly in the mysticism, we still want to hold so strongly to the idea that magic is random, random awe inspiring. But but it's not. It's not that random, it's no, and therein lies the problem. So it really is. It's it. It's for me it is. It's interesting. To sit was a similar thing and I mean we were crying, people were so upset people, but it how?
Speaker 4:but we're still here. Yeah again, I understand normalcy bias and I I'll admit I'm probably one of the people that has it the most, because my, I don't think anything's really going to happen. I don't think it's what everybody's hyping it up to be. I don't think we're going to have military marches down the middle main street.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying yeah, and I I go broader than that. I go, maybe it will, maybe it won't, but I'll deal with it as it comes speculating on everything that could go wrong I well, because at the end of the day I stop and I go. Okay, I still have to get up, I still have to pay my bills, I still have to feed myself.
Speaker 3:I still have to feed my animals. I still have to do my job. I still have to, I have to function. Exactly how much of my energy, my effort, my brain power am I going to give away To? This To this that is going to prevent me from doing the other things that I need to do. My dog doesn't give a crap who the president is. No, he's like uh, could you put some kibble in the bowl please?
Speaker 4:I'm hungry now I mean, I've seen your dogs. Your dogs look at them. Go, it puts the kibbles in the bowl or it gets the hose again.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes well in my case, it gets the snarfles, which basically means they sneeze and snot all over me. Um yeah, they don't care. I mean, and that's because that is the way of nature, it doesn't care so we need, and again, we always preach.
Speaker 4:We are supposed to be more like nature. We're supposed to see the seas ebb and flow, so does everything else. We understand this pattern. Why are? I don't understand why there are so many people getting so upset. Go back to our teachings. There's ebbs and flows. Yeah, there are cycles.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, this is just another cycle well, it's not any different than what you know. Again connecting it to another North Carolina right now, the catastrophe in the mountains, the floods. Is it horrible? Yes, I mean. Are people suffering? Yes, is it, is it. But was it preventable? No, and was it necessary? She thought so.
Speaker 4:You know what? Arguing with her is a very dangerous thing.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's my thing. I mean, look, there was an interesting sort of I don't know what you want to call it a ruckus.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That took place because, you know, I'm part of a bunch of rock hounding groups and all my friends in the rock community. So, very specifically, when the town of Chimney Rock was washed out, chimney Rock, on Main Street, had two very prolific gem shops I think they were the same owner but there was one on each side of the street, sort of thing. Someone made the comment Well, maybe we should all take a trip down through the Lake Lure basin to start sifting for some of the expensive some of the right, some of the rocks, gems, jewelry that is probably in the river now.
Speaker 3:Oh boy, people lost their mind. How dare you, how could you say that people lost their homes and their life and I'm going, yeah, but they're right. I mean, it's not going to change anything, not somebody deciding to take some dig tools and go sifting around in some mud if they find some rocks, good for, I mean, look what they do with those rocks if they find them, that's up to them. Could they choose to try to return it to the shop owner? Sure, but it's not going to change the outcome of what's already happened. No, so what does it matter? And it's this whole entire thing, the whole entire getting revenge on somebody that's killed someone you love it doesn't bring the other person back, no, no, so what does it matter?
Speaker 3:and it's this whole entire thing, the whole entire getting revenge on somebody that's killed someone you love it doesn't bring the other person back no, and it's interesting because I've I've sort of thought this forward in a strange way and then I went. It's very likely that many hundreds of years from now, that site, that area right where a place like Chimney Rock sat, it's going to be excavated. It's going to be right, architects or archaeologists might be there. Architects, right, buildings are going to and people are going to find these remnants and go oh, there was a really disastrous flood here, something happened, yeah, and this is, this is what's left right, these are the and this could, and I'm thinking about that and I'm going. You know it's, it's like a small scale, pompeii, right, right, but now, with all of our records, with all of our data, with all of our information sharing, it's unlikely that this flood will be lost to time. People are going to know, the record will be there.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's not like we lose civilizations, exactly.
Speaker 3:Well, we have.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying? It's not like we misplaced it, not now.
Speaker 3:Not in today's world anyway, Something extremely catastrophic would have to happen for that to take place. That would be global destruction. But you just kind of stop and go. We don't live in those times anymore where it is going to be some great archaeological discovery of, you know, the great North Carolina flood of 2024. No, so yeah, go dig in the mud. Why not? What I there's?
Speaker 3:there's really no reason not to it's a salvage mission at that point. So I don't know. But we see this. We see this a lot, and something that I think we taught. We talk a lot about ego too. Right. We talk about how ego is a huge deterrent to our own personal power and understanding of craft.
Speaker 3:Right yeah it is also the thing that fuels many of these modern beliefs. It really does it. It's setting it aside to real, to realize how small we are right in the grand scheme, because that's the problem that ego will tell us that you know to do these big, magnificent things, or or to continue a fight that doesn't need to be fought, not like this. The fight is continue to support your community, continue to fight for laws and legislation that change things the way you want them to be, continue to participate I think people make more of an effort just living the way that they doing those.
Speaker 4:Remember the tv show? What is that? Uh, if it was you. Where they do that where they do the um where I don't. The one I remember was they had a guy show up and he pretended like he couldn't read and then the woman behind the counter went off on them to see what the customers would do. What was that show? What would you do? I think that was what the customers would do?
Speaker 3:What was that show? What would you do? What would you do? I think that was the name of it, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I love that show, because those who did right they need. That's what changes society when you see it in practice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really can be that simple, to sort of go it's the small things that add up collectively, that we all do, but do them from a place of love, from peace, from compassion, not from this place of anger and fury and upset and almost that manic energy.
Speaker 4:And you can't do it from a place of I'm better than everybody else, all right. You can't do it from a place of I'm better than everybody else, all right you cannot sit there and do these things and look down your nose at these people at the same time.
Speaker 3:No, because that's where all these tensions come from. I mean, we are, we're gonna look. Thanksgiving is on the horizon and the reality is there's a lot of fractured families right now. Yes, there's a lot of people who will not be having pumpkin pie together and regardless of what you think of the holiday itself or its origins right, its modern connection is what its friends and family.
Speaker 4:That's it. We want you to come together.
Speaker 3:We need this as a society like this is the time to put to, not maybe not put it aside, but be civil and recognize it. You know it's not the end. I mean, and I think about that and I go to me, regret is far worse than those temporary, those those minute actions in the immediate right. Right, I don't go to thanksgiving this year because I'm mad at at my aunt and uncle, because they're, you know, and I have all these, you know, strong opinions about their political. Well, you know what? Okay, they get into a car, wreck in in a year and pass away that regret's gonna suck, yeah, and that you cannot change at all. But willing yourself to have a civil conversation, encounter, to choose to put politics aside, that's craft, I mean.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 3:That's what we do every single day. I mean, we get together all the time. How many, how many conversations about politics have you and I squashed?
Speaker 4:oh god, yeah, and sometimes make it even worse. This is I think this is the second conversation me and you ever had that come this close to politics.
Speaker 3:And even then we're both sitting here quite uncomfortable with each other yeah, I mean because at the end of the day to some extent it's funny I don't want to know. I don't want to know what some of my friends think. I don't want to know where some of their political beliefs lie. There's a part of me that wants to go. My spirit loves your spirit and I don't want anything to tarnish that.
Speaker 4:I don't want the constructs of man to come in and mess with that I'm going to say this okay, I do not want this to affect the way I see my high priestess as she stands there and does ritual and makes me want to weep.
Speaker 3:That's a good point, yeah that's what I that's more damn important to me than anything else well, but it's know, that's an interesting way to put it, because we also talk about how, when people feel like they're being pulled away from god, well, more often than not, that crisis of faith comes from something on the mundane sphere that has taken place.
Speaker 4:It's, it's, it's a scandal, it's information that, yes, alters us irrevocably whatever you might want to think I'm wrong, but it's sort of like a virus. There's just something in the mind that comes in here and it just freaking, kills all your spirituality and pulls you completely out of your religion.
Speaker 3:Yes, but we're also in a time, we're in an era where everyone thinks they're a sleuth or a snoop or right Like it's our job. It's our job to find it, to hunt it out, to expose it.
Speaker 4:Everybody has become mrs crabbett, sticking their note that's funny.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, that's that. I mean tmz, right, everybody thinks that that's their job and I'm like that. That's a horrible, horrible way of doing so, just a terrible way to live. It's like you're purposefully seeking out the worst instead of choosing to find the best.
Speaker 4:You know well again, it's that and I see it a lot, and I guess I'm gonna have to use myself as an example, because that's like the safest for me. All right Back in the day, back when I was younger going to go get a job, you go get a job, I'd go apply for a job and you get turned down. Yes, I will admit, there is part of your brain that says it goes. Was it because I was dyslexic? Was it because I was dyslexic? Was it because I was gay? But I don't see a lot of and a lot of people want to sit on that instead of going. Well, I just wasn't qualified for this job, or somebody else was more qualified sure we can, but we, that's.
Speaker 3:That is human nature, right? It's also human nature, though, to kind of go into that I'll never get a job, I'll never get hired, I'm not. And you go wait a second. No, no. That it's a defeatist attitude and that's what we have to combat. And it's the same thing. This is not defeat, this is a moment in time and in the, in the grand scheme, yeah, yeah, it's not going to matter all that much.
Speaker 4:Okay, there is a main concept in craft that we must go through darkness before we can enjoy the light. Mm-hmm, all right. Which means we have to go through tough and hard times.
Speaker 3:But cyclically they always happen like yes, if we've been in a period where things are great for a lot, like guess what it's coming, it's coming, there's yeah I mean they sit there pretending like it ain't is just not paying attention to what's going on no, and I. There is a. I mean, I know you're a Star Trek fan too, but there's. I remember oh gosh, I can't remember which which one of the different you know franchises of.
Speaker 3:Star Trek it was, but it was a whole thing about how you know they don't have money anymore.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:The, the, the society has transcended. You know all of these things that you, you, you hear about and you go gosh, that's, it's so idyllic, but it's also like they create, they, they present it like a utopian society.
Speaker 4:She doesn't exist there's always going to be an ebb and a flow. There has to be. No, I agree with you so other.
Speaker 3:Otherwise, you know, I kind of get a giggle and I go hey, where are the skeletons in the closet? Because that society's got some skeletons, man, and they, they tried to bury him real deep. You know, what did it cost to get to that point?
Speaker 4:and yeah, yeah, I think, in the grand scheme of things, what we can tell most people is take a breath sit down, yeah be, in the moment, be in the moment all right be in the moment with us sitting in our pajamas all right, forget about everything else for a little while. Yeah, look out the window watch grass go yep, be still the word man used to tell us all the time the all the mysteries of the universe can be found in a single blade of grass.
Speaker 3:It's true.
Speaker 4:I think I need some coffee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media. Facebook Discord.
Speaker 2:Twitter, YouTube and Reddit blazing pyres, and so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning breaks. Thank you.
