Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Witches of a Certain Age
What happens when the body can no longer keep up with the spirit's desire to serve? This episode of Pagan Coffee Talk explores this very question, as we navigate the emotional and physical challenges faced by elderly priests and priestesses grappling with physical limitations. Through personal stories and candid discussions, we reflect on the struggle of accepting help and the ego's resistance to stepping aside. Our conversation delves deep into the complex emotions surrounding the transition of leadership roles to the next generation, with an emphasis on maintaining involvement in more advisory or teaching capacities.
Join us as we uncover the critical role of mentorship and succession planning within spiritual communities. We emphasize the importance of preparing younger members to become spiritual leaders by encouraging active participation and thoughtful adaptation of traditions. Our heartfelt dialogue touches on the empowerment elders can find in transitioning to advisory roles, while also providing support and companionship for those navigating these life changes. As we conclude our session, we extend an invitation to elders to connect and share their experiences, fostering a sense of unity and guidance for all.
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. So what are we talking about today? Well, I thought you've been having some issues here lately with your arthritis. Yes, and the last ritual that we had, you unfortunately were not able to assist in the casting.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:So I thought we would talk a little bit about what it means when you become a priest of a certain age. Yes, so, like, what are the kinds of things that run through your head at this time?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm sorry, when you I've been performing ritual for how long? Well, over 30 years, so I mean you sort of get used to doing it when you can. It's not I don't know, it's just you can't do it. There's a little bit. You feel a little lost there. But yeah, when you start getting to the point where you how can I put this? Our elder community is elders we are getting sort of right battered and bruised and which happens with age, which happens with age, and again, moving around isn't that easy anymore. So yeah, casting a circle is not the most easiest thing to do when you get to a certain age, but the problem is is when you're sitting there and everybody in temple being nice and trying to help you, but you're still wanting to do.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, and so how do, how do you deal with that mentally?
Speaker 2:it's a little hard. I mean considering considering during the last sabbath all right, dear ne Sabbath. I'm sitting there and I'm hurting and one of my first degrees walk up to me. She's with a cane, herself going hey, can I do anything with you? What you know? Sorry, I don't want the lady with the cane having to help the old man with the cane having to help the old man With the cane. With the cane. I mean this is back to the blind leading the blind Right.
Speaker 1:It is a little hurtful to the ego, though, to be that one, to have to sit there and wait for someone to bring you your plate of food, because, well, just milling around everybody in the kitchen is a little difficult. So what kinds of things do?
Speaker 2:you do to help you deal with that. It's really not much to do. Either you deal with it or you don't.
Speaker 1:I mean well, I mean, I know there's things that there's little things that you can do, like delegating, delegating and things like that, but even then, are you still, are you?
Speaker 2:You're most priests and priestesses, I think, are dealing with the same thing. I am the feeling of being useless.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Inside, circle Inside, because you can't do, I mean.
Speaker 1:Which, again, there's not much you can do about that.
Speaker 2:No, I mean especially when you're being propped up onto a little seat because you can't stand in ritual long enough sometimes. Right, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing or anything. The first degree is they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do. Right Again, the majority of the psychological issues are me.
Speaker 1:You know you're with me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not them. They're being nice and loving and all that, but there's again, there's a part of you that still wants to do you sort of miss casting circle.
Speaker 1:So I think this kind of ties into when do we know when to step down, when do we know when to pass that torch on To somebody else, to somebody else and just sit back and enjoy it?
Speaker 2:or are we going to be like certain other religions and just sit here, keep on getting older and older and more decrepit and not give up that power?
Speaker 1:that authority right to the next generation. I mean because this is a very real thing that is going on that yeah, everybody's going to go through it at some point.
Speaker 2:You know well I mean, I've commented on the podcast before. Every time we're teaching, every time we're doing things like this, we're always looking for our replacements, right?
Speaker 1:Is what we should be doing, right, but it's that letting go, it's that letting go and again, Lord Nian had this problem.
Speaker 2:Oh, did he ever yeah. I mean every elder I've met that's put blood, sweat and tears into getting their temple started and all like that. They don't want to let go. Well, no, it's their baby. It's their baby. And I can understand that to a certain extent You've worked years to get this done, but at some point we physically have to let it go.
Speaker 1:Right, but that see, that doesn't mean that you have to completely separate yourself, though.
Speaker 2:No, no, you can still be an active part. It's just you're taking more of a advisory or a teaching and less active Right right.
Speaker 2:The problem comes is when you are still young enough to be active, but yet have physical limitations put on you right you know it becomes a little bit harder, all right, you know, and especially as the older you get and the more slower you get on things. You know I remember a lot of times sitting there like you know, lord man, be invisibly upset to have to look at me going. Okay, you're younger. I need you to cast circle so I can just stand behind the altar instead. Right, you know you start seeing us. Let go because we just have to. You know, there's more and more times where we're going to ritual and I'm not performing ritual. I'm having a look at the lady going.
Speaker 1:You need to pick somebody else Right, you're either doing it by yourself tonight or you need to pick somebody.
Speaker 2:Or you need to pick somebody. You know I'll do what I can when I can, and I normally do, but I mean it's happening more and more, right, you know, and I'm again and I'm not trying to- put out anybody's business.
Speaker 1:But you know, I'm sorry, the lady's not much younger than me. No, she's got a few years.
Speaker 2:Years on. Her, yeah, and I'm not, you know, and she has her issues too. So I mean, it's not like this is a one-way thing here either. You know, you know absolutely not.
Speaker 1:you know she's going through the same things right, and the older she gets, she's gonna she's gonna see that what you're going through is what she's gonna be going through, and and again we're having to deal with this we're having to and again for us elders, having to deal with crossing that barrier, getting across that and not feel jaded or hurt or left behind.
Speaker 2:And I think that's part of the thing there is when you get to a certain age, you feel like if you can't do, they're just going to leave you behind, they're going to stick you in a corner and you're going to become that dusty oak that nobody ever talks to. Right, and I think that's part of the fear there is, that this is what's going to happen, and not that you just can't do or interact, it's just people are going to sort of forget about you I think that's a legitimate fear.
Speaker 1:I really do, especially for if you've been someone who, like you, who's been super active, always there, you're teaching all the classes, you're conversing with guests that come in. You've always been very vocal, right, and I can see how you would feel that way. Yeah, like, oh God, I can't do this. I can't do this, this or this anymore. They're just going to shove me off to the side. But I don't, in our case, I don't really don't think that's going to happen.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't. I don't think it's going to happen. I didn't say it was a rational fear. No, well, not rational. I didn't say it was rational, but it not rational.
Speaker 1:I didn't say it was rational, but it is a legitimate fear and I think that's something that that we all go through the older we get anyway right, because I've seen it so many times growing up where the older generations people just shove off in a nursing home somewhere and never come see them anymore. Never come see them, the families just forget about them.
Speaker 2:Right. But then, but again, you know, like I said growing up, when you see these again, these older preachers that have been in power for in these churches for years and yet they really can't do, they really shouldn't be doing this, but they keep on doing it because, well, pride, ego, whatever right is getting in the way. You know, I'm sorry, you get older, your memory gets a little bit floppier and the doctors put you on a little bit more meds than normal right, yeah, there was a.
Speaker 1:There's a preacher that I grew up with and when mama passed away she wanted him to officiate the funeral and I'm like, and when I saw him I was it dawned on me how long this man has been behind the pulpit yes, and I'm like don't you think it's about time for you to retire and just enjoy your life? Yes, at some point I mean, he still gets around very well, he still speaks very well, well, again, I don't think we ever, technically, ever truly retire from the priesthood well, no, no never I at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:No, we're. We're a priest until we die, right, I mean, that's all there is to it when I say, well, when I say retire, that's, that's where I'm like.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's time to go back to just being a participant in ritual Right and letting someone else do the casting, do the presentation, do all of that stuff, and you go back to just enjoying it.
Speaker 2:Enjoying it All right. Well, don't get me wrong why. There are times, there are wonderful times in which I have been in ritual where, no, because of physical limitations, I couldn't and ritual and it was beautiful and it was nice and it was. I got to experience in a way I haven't gotten experience in years. Right, there's still a part of me that's kind of like. Of course there is. I still want to put my hands in the soup.
Speaker 1:Needs a little more flavor.
Speaker 2:Needs a little bit more flavor.
Speaker 1:You need one more shelf.
Speaker 2:But again, it is something we need. There are things that we need to deal with, just like the other side All right on this, all right Right. Things that we need to deal with, just like the other side all right on this, all right right.
Speaker 2:You know, while I'm sitting here going, okay, you know y'all, y'all need to be a little bit more sensitive and maybe sometimes allow us to try to do stuff, or whatever and then when we fell miserably, go okay, fine, whatever or look at us and say I told you so you know I mean, don't get me wrong it is a bruise to the ego when that happens, but sometimes I think some of us need to do that. Some of us need to because, again, the strange thing is is when you get older, sometimes you can do that task, sometimes you can't do that task and it really just depends on this plethora of random things going on in your life right I mean I don't know how I explain that between the weather and I was gonna say it's almost like your, your joints and your body just has a mind of its own at that point.
Speaker 1:And it's like today oh, we're just gonna inflame everything, oh.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, mother nature is kind of like you know. Remember all them years you fucked with me, right?
Speaker 1:Well, fuck you, because here it comes.
Speaker 2:Remember all them spells. You casted me Right. This is the backlash. This, right here, is the backlash quite possibly, yeah, quite possibly.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't put it past her for sure you know, well, I think, on the other side of this too, what the young ones was. We call them the first degrees, the second degrees, those who are coming up to be the replacements right they, they need. In my opinion, they need to start spending more time with the elders. They need to make sure they've learned all they can.
Speaker 2:That philosophy, that logic, that wisdom. So you don't have to spend more time learning something we've already known.
Speaker 1:Right, but they also need to understand that eventually they're going to be in the same place, yep, so at the same time they should start looking for their replacements.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you have to realize that this becomes the cycle.
Speaker 2:Right, it's always about the kitties. It's always about the kitties. It's always about the kitties. It's always about the kitties. It's always about the kitties. It's not about us. And again, this is a hard pill to swallow and it gets worse when you do have those physical limitations and stuff like that. Sure, I would love to hear from some more elders and stuff on this topic. How are y'all dealing with this?
Speaker 1:Right, what are some ways that y'all are um combating the mental fatigue of getting older?
Speaker 2:right in ritual and doing this thing and not being able to do as much and, yes, even having to refer back to your notes more when you're doing classes than you used to, and and it's small things yeah, but again, after a they do pile up. You do notice, you know some people don't. You know? Again, it's the whole glasses thing. Sure, yeah, you never actually realize that your prescription's changed until you go two years later to go get your eyes examined and they go.
Speaker 1:well, guess what? Oh, maybe that's why that was just a tad bit blurry.
Speaker 2:oh, maybe that's why that was just a tad bit blurry and, yes, sometimes elders have to be pulled off to the side by other elders who go no, you're done, all right. I mean we have elders have to learn how to give up that power, how to give up that control and and fall more into that advisory position. And again, I'm not going to say it's easy, but again it's something I think we need to start a conversation about in the community.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think some ways. Well, at least one way that we can help combat some of that is when you are younger and you're training those that are coming up, you allow them well, I mean, you have to allow them to do it anyway, but give them more and more opportunities to do ritual, to perform that I mean they need to, they need to practice anyway.
Speaker 2:Yes, they they need to get familiar with the elements.
Speaker 1:They need to get familiar with the elements. They need to get familiar with the deities.
Speaker 2:They need to get comfortable performing ritual as if it's second hand Right.
Speaker 1:But I see that also as a tool to help the elders, the older, the third degrees.
Speaker 2:But back to what you're saying, even to the elders. Elders, y'all need to start letting these people, your first degrees, conduct rituals, absolutely. They're not going to become better at it by just standing there watching you? No, they're not All right. While watching and observing does help on the teaching scale, it's not the full puzzle of the picture.
Speaker 1:No, it's not, and we've said it time and time before. What we're doing is we are not creating followers. We are creating priests and priestesses.
Speaker 2:We are creating spiritual. We are trying our best to create spiritual leaders. Yes, not just minions, one right after another. That's just going to follow orders. No, that's not what we want. We don't want bond faith. No, we want questioning faith.
Speaker 1:Exactly yep, and ultimately, that's the goal.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:But the other part of that goal is keeping your tradition going, keeping the craft going.
Speaker 2:Yes, in and of itself. I mean there's a difference of changing things just to change things Right Versus changing things because they need to be changed. All right, I mean it's kind of like the commercial I've been seeing on TV and it's driving me up the wall. Well, what's new about the phone? Who cares? Right, there's an update.
Speaker 1:Well, what's new about the phone who?
Speaker 2:cares Right, there's an update. Well, what's new who?
Speaker 1:cares, it's an update, just do it.
Speaker 2:Just do it and I'm back to no, I'm done. Right, I'm done of the whole. You know, consume product, get excited for a next product and it never ends. So, again, we're trying to do things differently, we're trying to see things differently, we're trying to move forward. All right, there are things that we have to deal with as elders of the community. There are things that we need to deal with our. Again, we're not done. Learning, oh god. No, this is another lesson we need to deal with Again.
Speaker 1:we're not done learning.
Speaker 2:Oh God, no, this is another lesson we have to learn and we're going to have to deal with first degrees and younger people and jealousies and aggravations, because that's not the way I'll do it. When it's not a ritual, right Well, at the same time, like you said, maintaining those traditions, it is a difficult thing and it is a conversation we need to start having in the community.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. We need to have more people coming together to discuss these things, Discuss these things.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's not an easy transition for, especially after you've done it for so many years a priest and priestesses giving up that power and moving on.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe that's not such a bad idea. You know what, if you're in the Charlotte area and you're listening and you're an elder, get in contact with us. Let's get together, let's just talk about things that elders need to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know. Things like this life changes for you when you know you're you're 50 something and you've had your first heart attack. Absolutely yeah, I mean again or you've had a stroke or anything anything you know, life completely changes for you in your viewpoint of this. And again, I don't see any discussions on this. I know the bulk of craft is always concerned about the next generation, right? I mean, we just talked about that, but we do need to take some time to look at our elders.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, what do they need? What do I mean? Because there's a lot of us. Lady Santana took a vow of poverty and the whole nine yards to keep her temple going Yep, she sure did, you know, for crying out loud. I know not everybody can do that, but these are sacrifices these people made and sometimes we have a bad habit of throwing our elders off to the side. So again, I don't know. Is this part of the culture in the pagan communities?
Speaker 1:It may be, but I think, it's something we can change.
Speaker 2:Is this a leftover philosophy from previous generations? You know like you know sort of the way they did it in tribal days, because once you got to the point to where you could not produce yourself, some people would often go into the mountains and you're in the coldest night and just not show back up in the olden days.
Speaker 1:Could have been. I mean it could be a carryover from that, but I still think it's something that we can change, like I said, I mean it could be a carryover from that, but I still think it's something that we can change, like I said, and I mean it's not a bad idea. No matter where you are, where you're listening, get in touch with some of the elders in your community.
Speaker 2:Because it's a little funny how we treat elders, because we sort of treat them like they're throwaways, but then we also want to deify them at the same time. I know right. Where did that come from? Where did this come from?
Speaker 1:I don't understand the duality there, the duality there. They kind of contradict each other Right, just a little bit, just a little More like a country mile, but you know I mean that's just my view.
Speaker 2:I could be completely wrong there. But you know, yeah, that's sort of what I see. Again, not speaking bad of anybody, this is what I see going on. I don't think any of the younger people are sitting there purposely going. Well, we just don't like Elder Bob, so fuck him, we're just not going to. I don't think that's what it is.
Speaker 3:I just think life and temple and activities get in there. Yeah, what?
Speaker 2:it is. I just think life and temple and activities get in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think some of it is the elders themselves. Yeah, they're the ones who are. They're being more like the cats and typically, when cats are in their last days, they will go off into the woods and just never come back.
Speaker 2:Or isolate themselves away from everybody else.
Speaker 2:Right, because again, you don't want to be, that burden but again, you have different thoughts there. A either you feel like a burden or you get aggravated because you would rather do yourself than you can't Right? So I mean again, there's a lot of things going on there. Dealing with elders can be a little temperamental, because I remember seeing this with Lord Min and me having to deal with him, trying my best to get him to kind of. But you know, there were certain times he would want to run a mile ahead of you and you'd be like, oh my God stop.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, I mean, the man had some energy for sure, but you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but at the same time there were times he just could not.
Speaker 1:No, he had the physical limitations. We didn't call him Robo Priest for nothing, because sometimes he just seemed like a robot. He just never stopped, never stopped.
Speaker 2:I can't think of anything else.
Speaker 1:I can't either. Like I said, though, I think it's something that we can change. I just think we need to come together as a community and do it Now.
Speaker 2:We'll say this For all the younger ones dealing with the elders be patient with us. Oh, absolutely yeah, if we get aggravated or slightly grouchy or whatever, or seem a little irritated, it might not be you, it might just be the situation and you just happen to be the one to highlight that situation.
Speaker 1:Think of it more like your grandparents. Your grandparents are going to get a little moody every once in a while, but you got to deal with them because they're family and you love them. We're all going to be kind of the same way.
Speaker 2:Just to let you know, I mean just to remind people, we're just as like y'all. We're still learning and moving through this stuff.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, so let's get some more coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at life temple seminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and reddit we travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire.
Speaker 3:Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires.
Speaker 2:And so it is the end of our day.
Speaker 3:So walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning.
