Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
A Conversation About Reincarnation
Spiritual wanderers unite as we journey through the evolving landscape of the soul. Our discussion likens this evolution to ascending life stages or leveling up in a video game, contemplating the presence of souls in animals and the existence of multiple realms. These considerations invite us to question and celebrate the many interpretations of spiritual growth beyond the tangible world.
Seeking answers in the mystical labyrinth of life, we explore past life memories and the phenomenon of soul connections. Do memories of past lives simply fade, or are they concealed within us, waiting to be unlocked? We tackle the notion of soulmates and the possibility of souls migrating together across lifetimes, possibly explaining inexplicable connections and synchronicities with others. This episode of Pagan Coffee Talk is a rich tapestry of spiritual exploration, urging us to embrace the mysteries of reincarnation and the roles our souls might play in shaping our experiences and bonds.
Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook
Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. All right, so, as we're recording, california is currently burning.
Speaker 2:If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.
Speaker 1:And make sure the organizations you're donating to are legitimate organizations and they're getting exactly what they need.
Speaker 2:So now, with that said, let's talk about something else. All right, a couple of weeks back, we were interviewing a new student and she was bringing up the conversation of reincarnation. Yes, so I figured me and you would talk about this, because, believe it or not, we actually have different viewpoints on this. Yes, we do. All right, so where would you like to start with this? I mean, we both believe in reincarnation.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:All right, let's start. Where do you believe? Like I do? I believe that the reincarnation cycle goes from male to female, back and forth Now and again. I know some people don't. They think once you're born a guy, you're always. That soul's always repeatedly born a guy or woman.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't believe that, but I also don't believe it goes back and forth like that. I think it's completely random.
Speaker 2:I could see where it would be random All right.
Speaker 1:I think it's more like a luck of the draw. It's like you know, somebody out there's rolling dice and, oh look, you're gonna be a cat this time no, I mean I can see that because you know.
Speaker 2:again, if the thought is is that you know you get pregnant and the souls start to migrate in there and out that that there are certain physical requirements needed by certain souls, I mean I need this one to be able to process this. I don't know.
Speaker 1:See, I don't really know, how that works.
Speaker 2:But I can see what you mean by it being more random, that well, you might be born a woman three times in a row, but it just happens to be the body you fit into, right, okay now, what about? Now? Let's talk about stuff like because I always think we should, as priests and priestesses, as spiritual leaders, try to figure out a spiritual meaning to some of the things that happen to us. Okay, all right, so, like spiritually, how do we explain transgenderism? Because, again, if we're believing, so, like spiritually, how do we explain transgenderism? Because, again, if we're believing that, like I said, I believe that it goes back and forth, that you might, and you're a little bit more random, I can either one of these I can sort of go with all right.
Speaker 2:But the idea that you're continuously a man I don't have a I have an issue with. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong on this have a I have an issue with.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying I'm right or wrong on this. Well, I could. I could kind of see that line of thought where it's like you go through one thing until you've maxed out on it and then you move on to something else well again.
Speaker 2:It's like we've like we've talked before. You know people that just know how to play a piano or an instrument, or just be able to draw or paint or whatever. We believe this is memories and skills carried over from previous lives, repeated over and over again, where you've repeatedly been a musician or a scientist or whatever. I could see. We're in a world okay, you've gotten to a rut and was born three times in a row as a woman, and the fourth time you come back as a guy. You're kind of what and get a little confused there I could see that you know all right now.
Speaker 2:I mean what the world, the person, does about that is we're not getting into.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying what spiritually could cause that problem right, and that makes sense because, especially if you're going with the more random aspect, like like I believe in, then, yeah, it's quite possible. You could three times, three, four, five times in a row be a woman, right, and then suddenly come back as a man well, I mean that's just and it kind of fuck with you a little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's just as been conceivable as a soul comes over. Just well, they were a man in previous life and then they just reincarnated as a woman and for some reason they just bring those memories over.
Speaker 1:Absolutely those feelings over with them.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, both feasible ideas, both feasible ideas, all right, I mean, so we have a possible spiritual. All right, I could see where in the world it would be more of a bother if you believed in the fact that men always reincarnated as men and women. But then I would have to ask if that's always the case, how does transgenderism happen in the spiritual realm? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, I don't think you can explain it.
Speaker 1:If there's one hiccup there on this, I'd sort of unless you go with the theory that there's an exception to every rule then, if your rule of reincarnation is that you are always a man. If you're a man, you're always a man.
Speaker 2:Right, I've heard it over the years like somebody be born without an arm or something. Oh, that was because in a previous life you did something bad, so they're trying to Okay, that's getting into karma and karma and all this other stuff. But again, the idea is is that stuff like that, you know, being blind, being dyslexic, all these physical down syndrome, I don't think it's anything we actually plan on in reincarnation cycle. It's just the hiccup with the body and there's you. You don't know until you're there are you with me Right Now?
Speaker 1:I could see where something like that would be all right. It's a lesson you need to learn or you need to learn something from this experience.
Speaker 2:I could see that, but as far as karma, goes the punishment, or I can't follow that line of thought Well, I mean, I can't see any soul sitting there going, hey, you know what? No, this time I really do want to be blind. This body fits me. It's not completely built. To some extent, I mean, you're with me Technically.
Speaker 1:If we look at babies, they're under construction when souls oh, absolutely yeah, I mean there's nothing final about that, because they're under construction. When souls oh absolutely yeah, I mean there's there's nothing final about that, because they're going to be going through changes right, I mean because you don't know what happens after puberty and all this other stuff.
Speaker 2:all right, you know, but I have to ask these questions. You know, if we believe that certain conditions like transgenderism and certain other things are caused by reincarnation, all right, that in itself is a hiccup, but is it something we should ignore, deal with or move on? And I'm not how people do it or not. I mean, is this something? When do we blame reincarnation and when do we blame reincarnation? When do we blame ourselves, I guess, is what I'm asking when is it a punishment? Is it ever a punishment?
Speaker 1:those are good questions.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm not trying to put anybody on the spot here. I'm asking questions if we don't.
Speaker 1:I think, as far as dealing with it. I think we're only allowed to deal so much right, because there are other aspects that go into dealing with the whole mental state and everything else that's going on with that person. Unless you're licensed, I don't think that should be in your realm of duties. Duties, I think we can do our best to help that person spiritually, right, that's as far as it goes. Yes, as far as explaining it goes, I mean we can.
Speaker 2:We can throw out theories all day yeah, I mean you don't know until you're on the other side and we can't. We're not allowed to remember on this side. I mean you don't know until you're on the other side, we're not allowed to remember on this side.
Speaker 1:Right, so I don't know where you go with that.
Speaker 2:All right. Something else I think we also have a disagreement on on reincarnation. I believe in the transmigration of souls. You don't, I do not know. All right, For those who don't know. The transmigration of souls is the thought that souls start out as some smaller animal and slowly work their way up to bigger and bigger animals, whatever as they can, Even doing some of the like random stuff you're talking about until they can finally become humans or some other being that is more advanced than the rest of us.
Speaker 1:Right. See, to me that follows more along the lines of evolution.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Which, again, I don't agree with Darwin's theory of evolution. Therefore, for me personally it doesn't translate into reincarnation. I can't follow that thought.
Speaker 2:But you believe there's an evolution to the soul. I do that. It grows and changes over lifetime, over lifetime.
Speaker 1:But I see it more like when we're teenagers. We feel a certain way and we believe certain things, and then, as we get older, those ideas change Right, they develop, they grow. Yes, puberty solves a lot of problems. It's the same way I view reincarnation.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So as far as the soul quote unquote evolving, that's how I see it, right.
Speaker 2:I don't see it as an actual evolution like Pokemon or whatever Are the animes I watch, where they just keep on getting more powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, I don't know I hate to be this way.
Speaker 2:That's sort of how I do see it, though. I just see souls as these things that just keep gathering knowledge and knowledge and keep on getting bigger and more powerful.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't say you're not gathering knowledge. You know, and I didn't say you're not becoming more powerful. It's just the way it's happening that I disagree with.
Speaker 2:I'm sort of along the lines of I don't think there's any scales here, all right, I don't think. On the other side, oh no, no, this is just the level one, so move, all right. I'm sort of like you everybody's in their own little place. None of us started at the same spot. None of us are ever gonna. Well, we all might finish at the same spot, but right, we're not all starting at the same place so do you, but do you kind of see it as like an experience level? Yes.
Speaker 2:So in that sense, for the gamers out there you can see the experience bar as it's getting there and then, once it's full, you've leveled up. You leveled up to some extent, but I don't think it works exactly like that. Like oh, as soon as you hit this no, right that. Like oh, as soon as you hit this at night right. It's more along the lines of you get to a certain point and reincarnating into this plane of existence doesn't make no sense for your growth, all right. So you just have to go on to a different plane of existence and start reincarnating there okay that's the funny part about all this.
Speaker 2:You talk to people about all this reincarnation stuff. At the end of the day, nobody sits here and goes. Well, how many realms are there? How many places do we reincarnate to?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's not.
Speaker 2:You don't hear that conversation no, I mean, we technically reincarnate into death well, yeah, because it's a whole new chapter of our lives the soul's moving on it is literally another realm of existence yes, so again, putting restrictions on things is a little hard. But the soul's moving on. It is literally another realm of existence.
Speaker 1:Yes, so again, putting restrictions on things is a little hard, but I know we have to have some rhythm to these processes. I think we do to an extent. I think we have to have that for it to make sense to us Right, it may not be what actually exists and it may not actually be the way it actually is Right. It may not be what actually exists and it may not actually be the way it actually is Right, but it's how we make sense of it, Right?
Speaker 2:I mean, again, we're not. When we're looking at this stuff and yes, we're comparing it to Pokemon, anime and all this other stuff, because we need forms of reference we're not saying that's exactly how it is, but I think it's funny how humanity now starts to think of this along the lines of video games and stuff like that on how all this works, so you honestly don't believe that your dog has a soul.
Speaker 1:No, or your cats, and I can't explain that. I can't explain that. It's just something that I feel I don't believe. They have souls. Do they have personalities?
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, see, I don't believe all animals have souls. I think some animals do, and I will go ahead and put that dividing line there. Most predators, I believe, have souls. Okay, most of the herd animals don't. I think they live off of the single conscious thought.
Speaker 2:So you think like cows and sheep. Sheep are more like the Borg. They just work in unison together. They really only have a hive mind sense, just like ants and all that, so they really don't have souls. But when you have animals that are a little bit more independent big game tigers, elephants, stuff like that, things that are a little bit different may have a soul because they tend to display independent behavior versus are you with me?
Speaker 1:No, I can see that yeah, and that's where in the world I see that divide.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying I'm right, but that's where I'm sitting in nature going. This is where the difference is for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just, I don't know, I just grow it up. I guess this is where I get my my idea on this right. Growing up, I was always told you know, kids get so devastated when their pets pass away right or get run over by a car or whatever.
Speaker 2:Led to that movie. All Dogs Go to Heaven, Right.
Speaker 1:So you know, as kids, we're told well, your dog's going to be waiting on you in heaven and you're going to see him or her again, right? That always bothered me, for some reason?
Speaker 2:Because it's never said anything in the Bible about animals, really, and I guess yeah.
Speaker 1:And I guess that's where it comes from. I just it. It felt right for me not to believe that animals have souls.
Speaker 2:Well, see, the way I'm looking at it is, I'm going to say this and people are going to roll their eyes A dog's soul is not a proper human soul. Okay, okay, it has to grow into that. That. These animals that I'm talking about have souls, but they're less complicated compared to us All. Right, because, again, most dogs and stuff like that, they tend to have that problem of they react to the world. Your dog goes nuts every time it thunders. Right, because he doesn't understand what the we don't. Why don't we? Because we understand what the thunder is and what it does. Right now, I don't know where in the world to call that dividing line.
Speaker 1:Seeing, you see, what I'm saying, though I can see where you're going with that, though I really can, Because dogs do display a level of intelligence. Cats as well. Cats as well. They do display a level of intelligence. It's not on a human level, no, but there is intelligence there. They can be taught. They can be taught, they can be instructed.
Speaker 2:Lady Abba tells me you know, our dog knows too many words. She's like how many words did you teach him?
Speaker 1:He does know quite a few, but there's that intelligence there.
Speaker 2:But that's where I'm making that distinction that there is it's growing. But that's where I'm making that distinction that there is it's growing to that level of humanity. Right, because, again, that next stage after us is us starting to realize something else, Starting to be able to understand what that other thunder noise is, that we now fear what is death. Right, when we get to that level, we're starting to understand that, so we no longer fear it. Okay, it just becomes longer fear it Okay.
Speaker 2:It just becomes a part of our cycles. So how many problems do you actually think people have that are caused by reincarnation? Because I think that's more of a cause and punishment like you punishment or not punishment that it's more screw ups, hiccups in the system.
Speaker 1:I mean, let's face it, I don't believe that reincarnation is a perfect system.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I think it's just like anything else that we have to go through spiritually, physically, whatever. Yeah, there's going to be hiccups in the system.
Speaker 2:There's going to be hiccups in the system. So again, I still think we have to learn how to deal with those hiccups in the system. There's going to be hiccups in the system. So again, I still think we have to learn how to deal with those hiccups when they come up. Yes, all right. I mean again, when you're born blind, you just got to learn how to deal with it. When you're born with these disabilities, you just learn how to deal with them. I don't see this as a punishment and I really wish people would get out of the habit of doing those, me too.
Speaker 1:But I also think that when you say we need to learn how to deal with it, it's not just on a personal level. As priests and priestesses, we need to learn how to and I don't like the word deal with it, but we need to learn how to handle these situations. When people come to us who do have disabilities Right and are concerned about it or whatever else, we need to help them.
Speaker 2:And I tend to want to make sure when I'm talking to these people that they understand. At no time do I want, because I hear a lot of them sit there and talk and they sort of blame themselves because they have it in their head that this was a punishment.
Speaker 1:Again, it's getting out of that punishment mentality Right. It's getting away from the karma aspect of I must have done something in a previous life and this is my punishment Right. To me as a pagan, this does not follow the pagan thought. No pagan this does not follow the pagan thought. No, this goes back to other religions who deal with guilt and punishment. I can't follow that line of thought because we take responsibility for everything we do.
Speaker 2:Well, we have to because we're the only ones that do it.
Speaker 1:And yes, you know you do something bad, there's going to be consequences, but I don't see it as a punishment, no, it's. Everything has an Equal and opposite reaction.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know, I mean I hate to be this way. You do something good, something bad could be coming out of it too. Exactly, I mean, we've seen those scenarios over and over again.
Speaker 1:So I don't see that as punishment, I just see that as a natural. It's just, it's just life, it's something that happens.
Speaker 2:Well, again it's, again it's back to our beliefs that sometimes good things happen to bad people, sometimes bad things happen to good people. Yes, it happens. It happens all right. It's not somebody's done something wrong, or I mean, again, it's back to that logic of people in the Middle Ages Every time they got sick, well, it's because you sinned against God, right? And it's not the fact that, well, you just got a virus and didn't wash your hands.
Speaker 2:Well, again, they didn't understand that, so they had to blame it on something, but yet we still follow into the same pattern of behavior when we talk about these things.
Speaker 1:Well, again, it comes down to, it's how we understand things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, some people don't evolve enough intellectually to come out of that old mentality where, okay, this could have been the cause of this or that instead of well, I sinned.
Speaker 2:so this is my punishment, you know, Because I'm still back to I don't. Well, that's getting more into it, that's going somewhere else. Yeah, just a little bit All right, because that's getting more into it. That's going somewhere else. Yeah, just a little bit All right, because that's getting into karma and all that. We were talking about reincarnation, which does bring this subject in there, but I'm trying not to. I know, I know.
Speaker 2:Back on track, Back on track, I'm trying to think what else? Was there anything else that me and you disagreed with or have different viewpoints on reincarnation?
Speaker 1:I think those were the biggest major points.
Speaker 2:I mean because the whole memory thing, I understand why in the world our memory gets kind of wiped. Well, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:I mean you know it's hard to sit there and fall in love with someone realizing that they were your grandmother in a previous life and again there right when you're dealing with stuff like that, are there glitches? Yes, there are glitches. That's when.
Speaker 2:That's when you've got these people who just know all kinds of shit and never once studied anything about, or you have the people that were born right after world war ii, who remember dying in world war ii Right?
Speaker 1:So I mean, you got those glitches every once in a while, but I think for the most part, yeah, no, I agree with you there. Memories, I don't know that they get wiped, they get locked away, I think. Maybe, Because there have been people who have. I mean, you look at past life regression, right, right, where people quote, unquote, unlock their past lives.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a possibility.
Speaker 2:Okay, Well, let me ask you this Do you think being gay is a choice when reincarnating? Do you think some people go? I want to know what it's like to be gay. Or do you think it's just some biological quirk that just happens and you just happen to turn out that way?
Speaker 1:I tend to again. I tend to be more of a believer of the random.
Speaker 2:Right when it's not you, your body does control your sexual drive, because that's where it is. Right.
Speaker 1:But, with that being said, I don't rule out the possibility that every once in a while, we might get a choice. Well, I don't know who's asking us to make that choice. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm not saying that. You know, our soul didn't have something else in mind. This is what's going on, and this is what causes a lot of our psychological problems in life. Right Is that our soul was expecting this, but this is what you got.
Speaker 1:Well, no, but you were asking if you thought yeah things like being gay was a choice before you're yeah if you can actually make that choice when you're being reincarnated I don't I mean, I wouldn't rule out the possibility, but do I do? I think it's like, oh okay, well, we've got a board of things up here that you can choose from.
Speaker 2:Well and again, but that's my point. Which ones of these things, which issues, do we get? What do you think we get to choose and what don't you think we get to choose?
Speaker 1:See, that's where things get a little complicated and that's why I tend to go simpler is better and I go with the whole random.
Speaker 2:See, I like the random thing better because to to me it's sort of like doing the cheats on the game. Yes, going if I can, if I can make these choices on this side, I can select god mode? Pretty much, yeah, and that doesn't that you're not going to learn anything no, it defeats the purpose and it actually believe it or not.
Speaker 2:I think most of the game modes make the games more boring. Yes, yes, because you're not really challenged. No, so I don't know if I'm right about that. That's the only thing I don't like about the whole choice, and I like the whole randomness of what we get.
Speaker 1:Well, like I said, I'm not ruling out the possibility that every once in a while, your soul might say you know what? After all this, I think I need to know this. Maybe, so I'm not ruling that out. Is it something that I believe personally? No, not ruling it out.
Speaker 2:All right, what do you think? Doing things like having soulmates affect that whole entire cycle. Do you think? Are you believing, like us, that you're just tied? We're actually just tied to a bunch of people. We're all reincarnation, sort of as a group.
Speaker 1:That's a good question. That's not something that I've put a whole lot of thought into, yeah, but just thinking about it off the top of my head, I do believe that there are probably a small group of people that might do that that you eventually come back in contact with.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's something that's going to happen with every reincarnation, because cycles of life are different. True, you won't all die at the same time, which means you won't all be reincarnated at the same time, which means yes, in your next lifetime your brother might be your neighbor, not necessarily in your family, right, but I just think that, well, even then, in your next lifetime, you may not even come across this person.
Speaker 2:See, now, that's what worries me, that's what makes me wonder, because you know, you have that concept of the whole group all right that groups of souls migrate back and forth at a time, and all these souls actually know each other, and hence the reason because they're all tied together, they all pull each other. See, from one from one lifetime to the next, if I die and then I reincarnate because I was married to you, those threads pull you to come with me ever so slightly. All right, which would explain why in the world, some people die and their spouse dies not long after them. Okay, is where that thought sort of comes from.
Speaker 2:I can see that All right and that when you reincarnate back, that the same thing possibly could happen. Okay, that you're bringing the souls that are normally around you in some, but we're talking like school size.
Speaker 1:So you're talking that this group of people is actually tied together by threads of life?
Speaker 2:Right, so to speak, by connections we've made, soul connections we've made on this plane and that plane, and it keeps on pulling us back together, because there are people I've met and I'm kind of like there's something about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but see, I think that's a little more random because those don't happen a whole lot.
Speaker 2:No, but my point there is. I think that is just two souls that recognize themselves at a different level than you would a common person.
Speaker 1:Hence the reason.
Speaker 2:They're slightly rare. Okay, but the same thought still going on, but the same thought still going on.
Speaker 1:It's just those connections to all these other people while you're friendly to isn't as good, but those connections are still enough to tip the scales on when in the world you have to reincarnate versus when I have to reincarnate maybe yeah, but I still see it more like if there are these groups of people who are connected like that, I still see it more like if there are these groups of people who are connected like that, right, I still see it more as, again, we don't all die at the same time.
Speaker 2:No, we don't all get born at the same time.
Speaker 1:Therefore, we can't be reincarnated all at the same time. So that's why I think it could take years. It could take lifetimes. I'm not saying it could take years, it could take lifetimes. I'm not saying it could Before these people come back around and before they regroup, so to speak.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm also taking into account what you might have to do on the other side and how long that might take. So again, not everybody in your group maybe come back, but I'm just sitting there going like 75%. Maybe, you know on average, or you know 90 of the souls you know just seem to always reincarnate over and over again with you maybe you know, I mean because there could.
Speaker 2:I hate to be this way. Souls could work like you know. Shifts they could, yeah, and then those shifts are lifetime shifts. You know, as soon as everybody that's here gets done with what they're doing and most of this generation dies, another generation jumps in while the rest of us take a break, and it's another, what? Two or three generations before we come back.
Speaker 1:Very well could be. Again, I don't rule out the possibilities.
Speaker 2:It's not necessarily something I believe personally, no, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility but I, I can see where in the world strong emotional and physical connections can transcend, oh yeah, from one life to another I can see how that would happen, yeah quite easily, and it's easy to find yourselves too.
Speaker 2:And again, I think that can also affect you being reincarnated, that, yes, your best friend, because your best friend incarnated and y'all sitting out there on the spirit realm and he's like I'm reincarnating. Well, shit, I guess I need to too. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, so it could be that way. Who knows, who knows? Well, on that note, so it could be that way.
Speaker 1:Who knows, who knows? On that note, let's get some coffee. Oh god, yes, thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan coffee talk is brought to you by life temple and seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
Speaker 3:We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. I see your blazing fires, and so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks, thank you.
