Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
A Slice Witchcraft With Some OCD on the Side
What happens when our quirks and obsessions aren't just our own, but inherited from our spiritual mentors? On this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, Lady Alba and Lord Night embark on a fascinating journey into the world of spiritual initiation and its uncanny ability to shape personal traits. We share compelling stories that reveal how seemingly obsessive-compulsive tendencies can emerge from the deep bonds within spiritual communities. It's a curious blend of reverence and routine, prompting us to ask whether these quirks amplify or mellow our natural inclinations. With a touch of humor, we reflect on the everyday annoyances, like that annoyingly crooked picture frame, that keep us on our toes.
Moving beyond personal reflection, our conversation turns to the intricate dance of social etiquette within religious traditions. A story about a son-in-law's abrupt goodbyes becomes a springboard into a broader dialogue about the social expectations woven into various religious practices. Our shared love for coffee keeps the atmosphere lively and relatable. Join us for an episode filled with insights, laughter, and a few eye-opening revelations.
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Welcome to Pegging Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Now here are your hosts, lady Abba and Lord Knight.
Speaker 2:So, lord Knight, with your coffee, would you like a slice of witchcraft, with some OCD on the side? Sure, okay, what the hell does that even mean?
Speaker 3:Well, let's admit it, when we get initiated, sometimes we seem to pick up the ocd from our elders I think we pick up a lot of things from our elders after initiation um I mean, this is not the normal uncontrolled ocd it's. This is a very controlled thing, but I don't. We just seem to become obsessive about certain things after initiation. Well, and it's random for different people.
Speaker 2:But Well, I think okay, so let's. Let's unpack this the same way. We know, the genetics and DNA and traits are passed down right from parents to children, Right From parents to children. We believe that at initiation, you will adopt, inherit, Right.
Speaker 4:Traits, yeah, be infected by Sure.
Speaker 2:Traits from your spiritual parents Right, and it is no secret that there is a certain amount of discipline and order that it takes to be a priest or priestess in this craft, especially as the degrees go up right. Thirds tend to be pretty particular. Yeah, and it sort of starts this cycle or habit where, yeah, our spiritual children start to display some of these behaviors. Yeah, oh sure, becomes weird, or maybe not weird, but where it becomes strange to people on the outside is when they observe this and then it it seemingly is kind of culty.
Speaker 3:Yeah, from an outsider looking in.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh, they all drank the same kool-aid. Well, kind of, but you do, you would look. I can only whether you believe that it is an actual side effect of initiation or it is just the byproduct of a group of people being very close to one another for a long period of time.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Spend any amount of time around someone else. There is bound to be something, yeah, that you will adopt from them, right?
Speaker 3:Over the years, I know a lot of people who had step-parents and they wind up looking more like their step-parent or acting like them.
Speaker 2:My daughter and I joke all the time when, whenever she has something that even remotely resembles something of mine, must be the genetics Right, right, even though I did not give birth to this person. But yeah, we'll joke that it's the genetics Right? Yeah, because we do, we are, we're primates.
Speaker 3:Now.
Speaker 2:We see the other monkey do something Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We see the other monkey do it enough times.
Speaker 3:We're going to do it too.
Speaker 2:We're going to do it Right, I think. Where it sometimes weirds people out, though, is when they are newly initiated and it's just sort of happening right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you suddenly become obsessed with buying boxes. I have to have that box.
Speaker 2:Anything could be any number of things. It could be a subject, a topic, uh, it could be a food, um, a song.
Speaker 3:I mean I don't know how many elders just making their toast over the years and then to stand there and watch myself do the exact same thing, knowing I'll probably sit there and do the same thing that that elder did. No, no, no. You have to do it exactly like.
Speaker 2:And then part of me wonders if it's just reverence right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Is it influenced by the fact that we respect this person enough, we honor them enough that we go? You know what? If that was good enough for Lord Min, why isn't it good enough for me? I'm going to do it that way from now on. It's not hurting me any. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't know. I do see where I think sometimes the OCD thing can actually flip for some people.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Meaning if you were kind of OCD already and then you're initiated, it sort of turns that up. No, I think it turns it down for some people. You think it turns it down. Yeah, that up. No, I think it turns it down for some people. Yeah, I've seen it turn it down where people are able to abandon some of their pre-existing proclivities. Okay, yeah, and mind you, we're also using ocd in a very loose term. We're not using it as the clinical true definition of an obsessive compulsive disorder and we know that that's not entirely PC to do. But yeah, we are using it colloquially just to mean being particular.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean there is. We are difficult, though there's no doubt about that. Thirds are the worst.
Speaker 3:You know, because I find myself doing all sorts of things, I find myself counting things yeah, for no reason.
Speaker 2:We're almost I like to think that for myself, right. I'm so in tune with my environment If I'm in my home.
Speaker 2:Right tune with my environment. If I'm in my home, right, I know all the little things, the little oddities, right. So to me it's like okay, here's a prime example. Drives me crazy when people slam my front door. Okay, and I don't mean in anger or anything, I mean like literally people that are just heavy handed and they kind of slam the front door. Whenever that happens, I cringe because I hear it, I feel the vibration through the house, right, and I immediately go God damn it. The picture on the staircase about a third of the way up is now crooked. God damn it. The picture on the staircase about a third of the way up is now crooked. I don't even have to look at it. I know that the picture is now slanted. Yes, yeah, because I'm just in tune with the environment.
Speaker 3:So it drives me batty when people do that and I'm like don't slam the door Because you're going around in your head knowing that picture's crooked, I'm going to have to climb up there. Be gentle, just close the door nicely like a nice person.
Speaker 2:That's all, yeah, it's. We tend to be a little gentler, a little easier impact wise and I don't not everyone conducts themselves that way right, people are sometimes still just kind of like a big obtrusive presence. I feel like we learn to walk and do just a little bit lighter. Okay, you, you know what I mean, because to me that is part of craft training. We learn that sometimes a gentle breeze.
Speaker 3:Is more effective.
Speaker 2:Right Than some sort of torrent of wind 75 mile an hour gusts Right, and so when we encounter people who are very forceful, yeah, that can be a little rough.
Speaker 3:A little rough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but yes, counting is another one Hoarding.
Speaker 3:Hoarding oh Lord.
Speaker 2:But hoarding in very, again, very specific ways, like it's not, you know, hoarding like my whole house, like it's like I hoard bottle caps. I have a box and anytime I have a bottle cap, the bottle cap goes in the bin. Sometimes I take out my bottle caps and I like to look at them and I like to touch them.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 2:I this is not me, I don't have a collection of bottle caps, I'm just making something up. But it could be like that yeah, there's something that you know, and it's always something that you can have in a quantity, and it's a little horrid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you're not breaking a bank or anything.
Speaker 2:No, no, why do you do that? I don't know. I don't know, I just like it.
Speaker 3:I like my boxes. The boxes are good to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we suddenly start finding ourselves doing tasks that we know have a slightly easier way, the harder way, intentionally. Yeah, there's have a slightly easier way, the harder way intentionally. Yeah, there's no logic, there's no rhyme or reason, and often we are the ones to say work smarter, not harder, but sometimes we will choose. No, I think I do want to sand that by hand. Why?
Speaker 3:do it anyway, do it anyway, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean, this is a phenomenon, this is something that goes on on occasion yeah, and again, I don't think some first degrees are very aware of it happening yes very aware, like they know as it's taking place. They're like what is happening to me and that's when we get phone calls at all hours of the day and night and some of them, no, not even aware. No, we see it a lot too with, oh, the filter, the mouth filter.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, it starts to disappear.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, big time the filter, the mouth filter. Yes, yeah, it starts to disappear.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, big time, and especially when you're more the.
Speaker 2:The more comfortable situations you're in, the less you have that filter oh, yeah, yeah um, and then there's the one that I think can be the most challenging for families, which is that, all of a sudden, the initiate starts expecting other people to live up to the same standards of conduct that the witches do yeah good luck with that.
Speaker 2:Good luck with that, because if you can get a family to not operate on pagan standard time, let me know. Um, yeah, it's hard. It's hard, yeah, um, you know, there's all of a sudden you know, keeping your word being on time basic courtesies become very, very important. Do you find that we are more or less tolerant in relation to children?
Speaker 3:I think we're more tolerant of children Interesting. Because, again, I sort of think we enjoy the chaos.
Speaker 2:We enjoy somebody else being in the chaos Interesting.
Speaker 3:And I'm sorry and I like it with kids, because kids seem to have more fun in the chaos.
Speaker 2:Well, sure.
Speaker 3:Of course they do. Oh, of course.
Speaker 2:Because they don't know enough to be concerned by it.
Speaker 3:When we're in the chaos, we're aggravated and annoyed.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and we're slightly fearful and we're like how do I safeguard from this? But yeah, kids are like la, la, la, um, how do I safeguard from this? But yeah, kids are like uh. But I do think in some ways though, where I find it is the mundane, the expectations, right, I have this expectation that people are going to behave a certain way. I have had an instance now twice with, I'm going to say, my son-in-law and if my daughter's hearing this, she's going to be both horrified, shocked and then probably also laugh. The last two times I've seen him that they have come into town or visited. He's just left without saying goodbye. He just sort of goes huh, yeah people.
Speaker 2:So you know the old term, the irish goodbye yeah, yeah he just that's kind of him, he just he, I don't know, I'm not going to speak for him, I'm not going to make assumptions, but he just kind of is like okay, and like walks out the door like that's it, like they're leaving. He knows he's going to be back.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, it's not like I'm never going to see him again, but there's no like deliberate, you know, like it was good to see you. Ok, bye. You know, none of that, something in me, the third degree kind of wells up and is like you, son of a bitch, you just walked down my door and didn't say goodbye to me and like I have a mental tally, I'm like that's twice now because, if you if you're not sure.
Speaker 3:Protocol for coming in and doing temple function is. You're the first person, everyone first and last.
Speaker 2:Yeah, priestess is always the first and the last to be greeted and, in the absence of a priestess, it's the high priest, but it still, yeah. It just gives me that moment and I'm like am I being ridiculous or am I? Yeah, am I holding him to a standard?
Speaker 3:that isn't fair or that he doesn't know about that too right, and so these can be interesting yes yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I also see where some of our other elders you know, because they are so aware of it and they've been around for so they're like, yeah, who cares? Protocol schmortical and the rest of us are like don't mess it up. And the elders just couldn't care, they're totally fine about the whole thing because they know. They know that you cannot expect everyone to be held to the same standard yeah. But we still try to be prepared anyway. So yeah, but we do, we have a.
Speaker 3:It is a funny thing that happens at craft.
Speaker 2:There's a very vigilant sense of right or wrong. Yes, with craft, you know, and a and a sense of right or wrong, do or don't, yeah, conduct all of it Like we. And because it is it, it is, it is somewhat all-consuming for us we, we tend to put everything under that microscope of right. Is this craft conduct? Is this craft behavior? Is this acceptable? Is it right? Yeah, but that is an OCD style behavior. I mean, that's very militant.
Speaker 3:I mean but is this not? Is this common? But this doesn't seem to be common in all traditions in all religions?
Speaker 2:No, definitely not.
Speaker 3:So again I don't know.
Speaker 2:Orthodox Jews. Wow, they got us beat, let me tell you. Let me tell you, the Orthodox Jews there is so much. There's so many layers of conduct, of do and don't, and it's fascinating. And unfortunately, I think, when you're dealing with something like that, when people are unaccustomed to it or don't know it, they see it as controlling or they see it as an you know why would you do that? And it's like wait a minute, wait a minute, don't make assumptions. Assumptions, it's not controlling. If someone has agreed to adopt that way of life because it suits them. I did find something really interesting not that long ago about the muslim tradition that I did not know. This, you know, there's still this wide-held, held Western belief that Muslim women are property, right, right, and that they are controlled by their spouse, and I didn't know that that is not the case for the grand majority. Great little docu-series on Netflix right now, and it's out of Australia, it's called you Can't Ask that. And it's all these little marginalized groups, right?
Speaker 2:And I caught the episode on Muslims and there was a group of Muslim husbands right, muslim men being interviewed and they were like let me tell you something, what? What the money that I make goes to her. Whatever money she makes is hers. Yeah, they actually are more of a matriarchy than we realize that a lot of times, marriages and the family really it's based on her lineage and her financial success and economic, not his. I was like holy cow who knew, um, yeah, so it's only a very small, small group that that we see in that oppressive way. The majority of them, yeah, the Muslim men, are like I don't, she has all the control, she has all the power, she makes all the decisions. I just sit here and go yes, dear, I thought that was. I was like, wow, so, yeah, we don't always know. We can see rules as being a bad thing when in fact they're not necessarily. I know you caught that article that I posted recently to the uh temple discord yes yeah, and, and I it was the entire headline, summed up the article.
Speaker 2:It was basically a burial ground found in England where the headline was you know, ancient Celtic burial ground proves societies were more matriarchal. And I'm like duh, duh, we've known this, we've known this for a really long time. Where were you guys and I? Just thought that was kind of cute, but you know.
Speaker 3:Go figure.
Speaker 2:I also think what happens after first degree is that we tend to embrace the order more.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, you've made that achievement. You don't feel like you're at a beginning? Yeah, yeah. And it's easier to embrace that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:One thing we are obsessed with Coffee, coffee.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary.
Speaker 4:Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook Discord the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres, and so it is the end of our day, so walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning.
