Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Aliens, Gods, or Both? Cosmic Questions Over Coffee
What lies at "the end of desire"? This intriguing line from the Charge of the Goddess—"I am that which is attained at the end of desire"—sends us on an exploration of desire itself, from basic survival instincts to our most complex spiritual longings.
Desire powers our most essential functions. Yet desire can also transform into greed, obsession, and attachment when left unexamined. As we navigate challenging economic times, the distinction between genuine needs and mere wants becomes increasingly crucial. How do we honor necessary desires while preventing others from overwhelming our spiritual growth?
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we consider whether ancient gods might actually have been extraterrestrial visitors. Could stories like the arrival of the Tuatha Dé Danann or ancient hieroglyphs depicting strange objects in the sky be evidence of alien contact? More provocatively, if gods once directly interfered in human affairs but later stepped back, what does this suggest about humanity's spiritual development?
Throughout our discussion, one theme remains constant: the importance of self-honesty. We must recognize when we're gaslighting ourselves about what we truly need versus what we merely want. The witch's admonition to "know thyself" becomes essential guidance, with meditation serving as our most powerful tool for developing this awareness. By confronting our desires honestly, we begin the journey toward understanding what truly awaits us at the end of desire—whether that's reunion with divine energies after death or moments of tranquility within this lifetime.
What do you believe awaits at the end of desire? We'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Pagan coffee talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. So, lord knight, we had this topic come up, and not too long ago, right, right how do you want to start this?
Speaker 3:well, there's a document that we use, and it's pretty much read almost every full moon or sabbath or whatever. It's called the charge of the goddess Right.
Speaker 1:So my curiosity is something that's said at the end of this document, which reads the following For behold, I have been with you from the beginning, and I am that which is attained at the end of desire. What is the?
Speaker 3:end of desire. Well, what is desire and what do you obtain at the end of desire? These are the questions I have.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's try to examine this. Let's start with what is desire.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, you know most people have a desire to live. Okay, All right, I mean biological functions. You, you what you get? Someone smothers you or you're underwater. You fight like hell to get to where you can breathe again. Yes, you do, and it seems to be automatic, like the whole entire um, what is that? The uh diving reaction?
Speaker 1:oh, what is that called?
Speaker 3:where it can, where it like, resets your heart rate and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because this is such a shock to the body.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's not a volunteer control thing. No, it's not. So again, is that not desire?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say it is. I'd say it's a form of desire, right, so let's look. A form of desire, right, so let's look. Uh, cambridge dictionary defines desire as well. Not quite what we're looking for, but okay, to have a strong sexual attraction to someone. Not quite what we're going for here yeah, but a strong feeling that you want something. The strong feeling that you want something, the strong feeling that you have to have something, as in the object of someone's desire To want something strongly Right.
Speaker 1:So, yes, it's just to want. Well, we all want but according to this. This is a strong.
Speaker 3:Right Again. Like I was describing, the wanting to live is so strong in us that our bodies automatically do it without us telling it to.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, so now we know what desire is, so what would be the end of desire?
Speaker 3:Would that be death or would?
Speaker 1:it be tranquility.
Speaker 3:Yeah, could it be peace.
Speaker 1:But how do you obtain that in this life? Can you do that? Can you manage that?
Speaker 3:well, say again, when you talk about things like know, like I said about like the whole living instinct, right, so again, can you bypass that? I really believe the only way we can get past that is through death.
Speaker 1:Okay, so if that's the case, then what truly is obtained at the end of desire Reunion?
Speaker 3:with the goddess Okay, and the goddess Okay, and the gods I mean in essence.
Speaker 1:But we believe in reincarnation.
Speaker 3:so Well, again just to return to the other side. The idea is that the For however long, for however long the other side is there is no need, there's no won't, everything's just there. Okay, you know again. Side is there is no need, there's no one, everything's just there. Okay, you know again.
Speaker 3:We're talking about the whole land of plenty, true, summer lands and stuff like this. Living and desiring is supposedly supposed to be easier in these places, because, well, it's just there, right, the trees always bloom and give off fruit and food and hunting's plentiful and there's no actual struggle well and I think, I think that's pretty common throughout most religions yeah that when you die, you go to a place where you want for nothing.
Speaker 3:Right, you have no desires, because all your desires are, they're already met they're already met Quite literally everything. Now I mean, I don't actually believe this like that. I believe you're going into more of an energy state and you don't need these things. That's why desire ends there. Okay, it's not required. You don't have to eat on the other side, you just sort of exist.
Speaker 1:So basically I am that that is obtained at the end of desire. So it quite literally is a reunion of energies Right Back to the source for however long until we're reincarnated.
Speaker 3:Yes, I do not think ending desire in this state you with me as a living, breathing human it's something we can completely end. Okay, because again you have those basic desires. I mean hunger is technically a desire. Okay, because again you have those basic desires. I mean hunger is technically a desire, technically, depending on how hungry you are. Right, if you're hangry. Well, so again, I'm like you. I'd have to say yes. What's attained at the end of the desire is death and rest.
Speaker 1:So then, how do we manage our desires on this earth so that they don't become greed or overwhelm?
Speaker 3:everything else Right To the exclusion of our own spiritual growth Right.
Speaker 1:How do we manage that so that it's not an obsession?
Speaker 3:Well, again, there's a difference between greed and needs. Well, yeah, I mean, because, again, we, we keep on talking in our religion all over and over again, when you have a need so we just basically, we we have to we have to decide. We have to decide what is necessary versus what we just won't. Okay, all right. I mean, let's be honest, me going out and buying one of those 50-foot skeletons to put out into the yard, that's not a need.
Speaker 1:But it could be considered a want, a desire, a desire or a want you.
Speaker 3:Just because you desire something doesn't necessarily make it a need. But that's what I'm talking about. How do we? But yet all your needs are desires okay, so we have to again.
Speaker 1:We have to walk a fine line right and we have to be cognitive of our own desires versus needs, Right? So again it comes back to know thyself.
Speaker 3:Know thyself, know thy needs Right.
Speaker 1:So again, these One of my favorite phrases witch know yourself.
Speaker 3:You're a damn witch. Heal thyself already, come on, but you know but yeah, so okay, that makes sense yeah, I mean because and me sitting here saying that, yes, all your needs are desires I mean I've seen people get up and hunt for glasses of water because they're so thirsty, right, that technically, in that moment becomes an overwhelming desire. Okay, so again, all your needs do turn into desires at some point.
Speaker 1:But all your desires, like you said are not necessarily needs. And we have to distinguish that Right, Otherwise we literally run into the trap that we become obsessive about our desires Right.
Speaker 3:We become more obsessive and care more about things that are farther away from us than the things that we should be caring about with us. Okay, all right, you're more concerned about a rock out in California?
Speaker 3:or a tree out in California but you're not worried about your own backyard, Right? That makes no sense to me, Well, no, we need to adjust our what we can do on this. What needs I mean? Do you really need to, you know, protect a tree all the way out and across the country? One little tree, Right, when you know when?
Speaker 1:you know, I don't know about other people, right. When you know when you know? I don't know about other people, but we've got trees in our backyard Right. We should be caring about which ones are going to fall and hit the house.
Speaker 3:Right, or which ones we need to cut down so we can get other trees to have more room for them to grow and be more healthy, right so Eh, eh, and be more healthy, right so eh. Eh, but yeah, you know, again, pagan people, bless them. We're all passionate people. We are, yeah, but again we have a tendency to let that passion override everything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in some cases we do yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah and again, this is something we need to pull back on. We need to start to refocus on our families, on our temples, on our community.
Speaker 1:And there's any number of ways that you can do that. I think you need to start with focusing on yourself and, like we were just saying, and defining, especially if you find yourself in a position where you're having problems deciding what to do, what you need versus what you want, then you need to examine yourself and you need to be able to define that before you can help take.
Speaker 1:RuPaul said it best how in the hell are you going to love somebody? To define that before you can help take? Rupaul said it best how in the hell are?
Speaker 3:you going to love somebody else if you can't love yourself? How are you going to help somebody else put their mask on if you don't have yours on?
Speaker 1:If you don't know how to do it, you can't help somebody else.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So I think that's where you need to start. Yes, well, I could be wrong, it's just my opinion, you know.
Speaker 3:you know, but I I mean, I'm sorry with the way the economy is right now and blah, blah blah, and you people are having to make choices between medications and food right, all right. Or certain things and other which shouldn't be the case All right, which shouldn't be the case. But it is a good time for us to start looking. What do we actually need? What are we wasting money on and time and effort on? That's really not benefiting us in the long run.
Speaker 1:Right, Especially when money's tight yes, when money's tight start making some cuts. What can we cut out? Do we really need that steak dinner?
Speaker 1:you know, I know some people would argue well, yeah, I mean we we all enjoy our steaks, but you know it's, you know, you and I, we, we've cut back the red meat because it's just too damn expensive. Yeah, so it's not that we don't have it and we don't enjoy it because we do, but we just don't have it as much. No, you know, we stick with the cheaper meats and vegetables. You know, we've started trying to grow our own, yeah, vegetables. So you know, that kind of helps.
Speaker 3:More self-reliance Right.
Speaker 1:So I mean again. It comes back to what can you cut out, what can you do to change?
Speaker 3:and help yourself financially. Again, it's us sitting down and being honest with ourselves about our desires.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:All right Again. I'm not sitting there telling you to get on the world and tell everybody everything in your head. You need to at least be honest with yourself, exactly all right and again. I keep on going back to that over and over again you, we have to start being honest with ourselves. I see so many times where people aren't doing that. They'll sit there and claim all this other stuff. But and you're looking, I'm going really, are you really doing that right?
Speaker 1:I have to do that to myself all the time because, I will. I will gaslight myself in a heartbeat like, oh you, you know, I've I've been doing so good, and I've been doing this and that, and I'll be like, and I'll sit back and I'll be like I've been doing so good, I've been doing so good on my diet this whole entire time, I can eat that one brownie Right. Things like that. Everybody needs a cheat day on their freaking diet.
Speaker 3:Oh, no, no, no. The majority of the times I hear that is that's their fifth brownie.
Speaker 1:Oh, but you know, I'm just saying I do it to myself and when I do it I eventually sit back and I'll be like you're just you're lying to yourself and you're lying to everybody else that you didn't do none of that.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:And then I have to face up to it you know it is.
Speaker 3:That's definitely the hardest pill to swallow is when you gaslight yourself, Lord, is it ever?
Speaker 1:And as humans, we do it all the time.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, we.
Speaker 1:Is it ever? And as humans, we do it all the time. Oh yeah, we do it all the time and again, it's something else we have to be aware of. I think that plays into knowing your needs and your desires, as well as knowing when you're fooling yourself. Hence the reason meditation is such a wonderful thing to do absolutely I ain't said that in a while.
Speaker 3:No, you haven't.
Speaker 1:Meditation, meditation what part don't y'all understand?
Speaker 3:you got ready for some coffee, I believe. So I saw a report the other day all Mm-hmm. All right, they have maybe found life on another planet. There's completely, of course, it's too far away to actually get luck, or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Of course it is.
Speaker 3:Which then brings up this whole entire subject I've been wanting to approach on the podcast from a pagan point of view. What about aliens? Aliens, all right Again, if we listen to the ancient alien people, the whole story of the twaffa day to non and how they showed up, I have to admit to some extent. Yes, could sound like a spacecraft landing. It could, considering the whole entire thing was is that there's a fog that came in from nowhere?
Speaker 3:for three days, once it it cleared there's this big city, but then, on the other hand, I had to be this way. Back then, what did they consider a big city?
Speaker 1:Right, was it the size of a football field? Two football fields, I mean. Do you got like?
Speaker 3:a thousand people in town or something. So I have to ask what do you think? Do we believe in aliens? Do we believe that maybe the gods were actually ancient aliens, or do we believe they're actually gods like we've talked about?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know that we can speak for the community on that. I don't think that we can. I don't even think we can speak for the coven on that. I don't. I don't think that we can.
Speaker 3:I don't even think we can speak for the coven on that no, I think that's well, it's an interesting thing, because again, it is you, you hear this stuff and again they're, they're, they're approaching on some of the stuff because again, oh no, no, thor was an alien and really the thor's hammer was this weapon right, well, and and you look at the anunnaki right and then you look at that, well, you look at the stuff from India, from the oh, I forgot what the Vera documents, or something.
Speaker 1:It's supposed to be diagrams of these flying mana ships. Well, and even Egyptian hieroglyphs depict spaceships and maybe possible aliens, right? So yeah, I mean, throughout history, we've got the stories, we have the tales, even in Christian artwork, you see, what looks appears to be spaceships in the sky, you know. And all this other stuff, right, spaceships in the sky, you know.
Speaker 3:And all this other stuff. So, Now we already know. First of all, let's state First of all most pagans I know we believe our myths are nothing more than myths, Right, All right, that they're nice stories that basically there was a guy named Hercules. He was the strongest person in his village. People told the story over and over again to where he finally had to become the son of a god and do all this magic.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like that one uncle that caught the fish and then, before you know it, it's a whale. It's a whale, all right.
Speaker 3:Right, so we see myths that way. Could there have been aliens that actually showed up throughout time, into and influenced our myths and legends about the gods? Maybe not maybe not stand in as the gods themselves, but right.
Speaker 1:well, I think it's entirely possible and I think I think there is some truth if if it is true right, like I kind of want to believe it is. If there's, if it is true, then there's probably also some truth to the part of the tales where People didn't know what to make of them, and so they saw them as gods Right Because of the knowledge they brought with them, the technology, the miracles that these people could do.
Speaker 3:Well now, on the flip side of this I mean me personally yeah, I believe at some point that there were beings that walked upon this, in this realm ie like elementals and stuff like this at a certain point in history, but for some reason, when humanity gained certain things, they all seemed to have ran away. So I can't sit here and say these 100% are aliens or multidimensional creatures or Right or anything like this either.
Speaker 1:So Again open up to the realm of possibilities.
Speaker 3:Because I mean, technically, we're still talking about the same thing. The only difference is our gods come from a different dimension. Right Of some type Right, so those could still be considered aliens.
Speaker 1:They could they very well could. I don't know how other people feel about that, though I don't think it's something I've heard a lot of people talk about, but it is an interesting question.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean because the way I look at it is you know, a soul's a soul Doesn't matter. All right, and especially once you're on the other side. So again you're. So are the gods in the same sense Right? All right, of course they're part of the source, but it's there. I'm sorry, never seen anything in any pagan doctrine documents that denounce the possibility of other life on other planets, like certain other religions, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, I don't think I've ever seen that, and so.
Speaker 3:So again, that's even even talking about this or maybe even being a possibility. I don't see as a big uproar in the pagan community. No, not really, not like you would. I mean, if you went and suggested this type of idea to the Christian community, yeah, you'd be getting hair ripped out and people screaming.
Speaker 1:I don't know that it'd go that far, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Heretic.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe back in the early days of the church. But yeah, Again, I like to think that we are not alone in this universe.
Speaker 3:That the gods have some other side projects going on. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:We can't be their only concern.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:True, I mean, we're like ants on this planet today?
Speaker 3:I don't know. There are some of us out there that are arrogant enough to believe. Well true. That they have completely the attention of the gods, them themselves.
Speaker 1:Cornered the market on it, so to speak.
Speaker 3:I mean you do have people out there that are, quote unquote, marian deities. True, I mean I'm not wrong there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, but I mean, I kind of look at that. As you know, we, we are not the main, sole focus for our deities. No, we, we make petitions and then they choose whether or not to the way I look at.
Speaker 3:It is the way I look at. I think the gods have their own plan for the world and how it's going to go, and we're just sort of like running around like little lemons for them. At the end of the day, they're going to get their way. They're going to push society one way or another, based on what they want or what's needed. Okay, I can see that In the grand scheme of things, I don't think they're sitting there controlling each individual person.
Speaker 3:But you do believe that there's a grand design, if you will, yes, I mean I find it hard to believe yes, when I'm sitting here and yes, I am looking at leaves and stuff like that that there's not some grand plan. There's a better architect than us.
Speaker 1:I do believe that there is a grand architect of sorts, but I don't know that. I believe necessarily that there's a grand scheme to things, some great design for this world. I think we're just, I think we're kind of making of it what we make of it.
Speaker 3:Well, I think we're doing that. Like I said, in the broad sense, though, that's where I think the gods play majority of the times.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:All right. So I mean because I have to ask the question and according to all the old myths of all the different religions, at one point gods used to interfere. All the time.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 3:And now they've suddenly stopped.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why is that? You know?
Speaker 3:so I mean, if they were aliens, what made them stop coming? That's a good question. What made these or even if these were beings like we're spiritual beings like we're talking about what made them leave? If they're not aliens and they are spiritual beings like we believe, I gotta ask the question what made them leave? Right, because throughout history there was, there's always been, more of a, you know, magic, mystery and god's interfering with everybody, and but now you don't see it any days no, you don't.
Speaker 1:That kind of coincides with the whole grand scheme of things. Did we, did we reach a point where they said, okay, we can now. Right, we've given you everything you need. We can now step back well.
Speaker 3:Well, if we look at humanity like an actual person, in those formidable years, yes, we needed the gods because we were just kids, right, figuring the world out.
Speaker 1:Right, but now we have a better grasp on things. They're like okay, right.
Speaker 3:Now y'all what? The 13-year-old staying at home alone while the parents are off working Right? I mean, is that where we're at now?
Speaker 1:That is food for thought. That's interesting.
Speaker 3:And what do we have to do to get their attention to? I mean, do we really have to mess up that?
Speaker 1:For them to come back.
Speaker 3:Do we have to mess up? Do we have to be bad kids?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Now see, that question kind of scares me, because now at this point, if they come back, what did we fuck up, what?
Speaker 3:What did we do so yeah, that kind of concerns me a little bit. Definitely a different way of thinking about all of this. Yeah, it really is, but again, like I said, I've seen nothing in any pagan tradition to To contradict. I've seen nothing in any pagan tradition to To contradict. To contradict the fact that there may be aliens or people on other worlds or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Well you know I mean, and the evidence is there. It really is.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm not saying they're wrong, but their theory is just as valid as ours. Well, sure it is Again.
Speaker 3:I can't knock them for their beliefs, but some of the points that they make does make a little bit of sense. So it makes me wonder could it be more of a 50-50 mix that there's something spiritual going on here, but yet there were some interference from other places? I'm just going to ask, Be nice to know, hey, listeners, tell us, Do y'all believe in aliens? Yeah right, I mean, you know, are they real or are they not?
Speaker 1:Or are we just crazy?
Speaker 3:And to make it even worse, are they part of your tradition?
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, and how in the world do you work that in?
Speaker 3:Yes, oh that would be interesting to hear. You know, I'm not saying I agree with it, but I'm just saying that would be interesting.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah it would be interesting to hear if it, if you found a way to integrate that into and not wind up with some heaven's gate thing, right, right, well, I mean, even if you have, you know we're not going to turn you in, but you know let's don't do the sneakers, Please don't.
Speaker 3:And the orange juice Right.
Speaker 1:All right, let's have some more coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
Speaker 2:We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our day so walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks. Till morning.
