Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Casserole Children
Would you design your perfect child if you could? Science stands at the precipice of allowing parents to select every attribute of their unborn children—from hair color to height, gender to genetic predispositions. But should we embrace this power, or are we treading into dangerous territory?
Our hosts share deeply personal experiences with children of varying abilities, challenging listeners to consider whether what we perceive as "imperfections" might actually serve greater purposes in our spiritual journeys. One host reflects on raising a child with special needs alongside a child considered "gifted," questioning whether we truly understand the consequences of eliminating genetic diversity.
The potential erosion of free will clashes with natural evolution occurring through increasing racial diversity and acceptance. At its core, this conversation challenges us to respect the mystery and wisdom of natural processes. Whether you approach this topic from a scientific, spiritual, or ethical perspective, you'll find yourself questioning where the boundaries should lie between human intervention and natural design.
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Speaker 1:Do you even remember what we were going to talk about? Yes, I do how science has evolved and you can basically they're getting really close to where you can have a custom baby.
Speaker 3:Made child.
Speaker 1:Right, you can pick their height, their sex, their hair color. If they're going to have any genetic this or that, yep, all right. Do you have a problem with any of this? I do.
Speaker 3:A huge problem.
Speaker 1:Okay, now I don't have no, no need to state this ahead of time. I don't have a problem with the whole IVF.
Speaker 3:Fertility.
Speaker 1:Fertility just to have a baby baby.
Speaker 3:I don't have a problem with all right.
Speaker 1:What we're talking about is, with the upcoming AI stuff and the genome being mapped, that you can customize your baby exactly.
Speaker 3:I think you're messing with the wheel, so to speak.
Speaker 1:You're messing with you're messing with forces you don not quite sure about yet.
Speaker 3:Exactly, you have souls leaving. It's almost like an airport. We're an airport, you've got souls departing and landing continuously and you're messing with that airport.
Speaker 1:When you start customizing genes and stuff and you take something away. If you take that one gene away, are you sure you're not taking away their ability to I don't know have intelligence?
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 1:We don't know what pieces do what. Why in the world this gene might cause cancer, but if we get rid of it it also supports eye function somehow and that leads to again I've got three separate children with three separate sets of genes.
Speaker 3:One of those children is missing a portion of a gene which affects his cognitive functions and executive functioning skills. So there again, like you said, if you start messing with that DNA, you might.
Speaker 1:I mean, down syndrome is caused just by double DNA. Hiccup, basically a hiccup, I'm not being mean you end up with two, you end up with two instead.
Speaker 3:Right up with two. You end up with two instead right, so while you're ordering blonde hair, blue eyes and a six foot.
Speaker 1:You know, child, you might end up creating a learning disability um something else, something that predisposes them to cancer or something else, yeah, you know so when these back. So if they start doing this, these first few babies are probably going to be really, really bad off when they become adults probably or it could, you know, have a different effect, and you know, the first one turns out fantastic.
Speaker 3:So everybody jumps on the bandwagon and that's where it.
Speaker 1:But now let's be a little bit more shallow about this. Does this mean we're all going to wind up looking alike?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:We're all going to be six foot because everybody's. We're always going to pick what we consider the best jeans or the best feature, or we're just all going to wind up looking alike.
Speaker 3:I don't think so, because everybody has different tastes, different preferences.
Speaker 1:You're attracted to different people, no, but at the end of the day, I'm sorry, I I watch YouTube. I see I see the girl, all the girls sitting there going. You gotta be, you gotta have the six, sixes, six foot six figures.
Speaker 3:And that leads to something what is the current trend?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So you know, but, but you, but you with, but you're with me. Most women.
Speaker 1:I know the guy's got to be at least six foot something. So all the guys are going to be six foot from now on? Yes, so I guess that means they're all going to be blonde hair, blue eyes.
Speaker 3:Muscular.
Speaker 1:Muscular. Are you with me? They're all going to wind up. Everybody's going to wind up looking the same. I think it's kind of like when you see the ladies that get plastic surgery yes, yes they all wind up looking alike. Yes, yes, same, lips same eyes same even though they didn't start off that way, by the end of it they all look just the same correct manufactured manufactured plastic, you know, made in China, on your butt.
Speaker 3:And that's where I think again do you want to? I mean, why do we want to mass produce children, or a race, or a society? Why do we want to mass produce? Because that's kind of what it's turning into. You know I'm a firm believer of science. To um, you know I'm a firm believer of science and it amazes me the leaps and bounds that they, you know, are able to to overcome and come up with each and every day. But is this what we really want to focus on? You know, while they've spent all this time and money researching how we can custom make a child, well, why haven't they?
Speaker 1:well, again, I found a cure, but again they well again, we can't sit here and look at the just the negatives on this. There are some positive sides of this.
Speaker 3:We're talking about being able to eliminate childhood disease, certain genetic diseases, possible cancers, and I mean there are things we could, diseases and stuff we could eliminate yes, but then that's where I go back to divine intervention and where I truly feel, because I am unique in that I have had a child with a birth defect, where she didn't live past 14 minutes, live past 14 minutes. I've had a second child who has a birth defect, you know that affects his executive functioning and cognitive abilities, as well as some of his physical attributes. And then I've had a third child who, for lack of a better description, is perfect in every way. Description is perfect in every way. You know he is smart, he is perfect health, he is gifted naturally with an athletic ability that I really, you know, haven't seen.
Speaker 3:But if, given the choice, I would not have wanted to miss the experience of my daughter, I would not have wanted to miss the experience of raising my son that has special needs and, of course, I wouldn't want to miss the experience of my third child as well, who is completely normal, completely healthy, gifted. And so I think that's where you start messing with divine intervention, because I do believe everything happens for a reason and when you start to custom order your children you may be missing out on a bigger lesson, something that the universe had in store for you, and you've kind of taken a detour onto a different path.
Speaker 3:All right, well, let me take this conversation to a little bit detour onto a different path.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, let me take this conversation to a little bit more, even a darker place.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we start doing this, we start customizing kids and all this. And how long until we start customizing perfect mailman, the perfect senator, the perfect soldier?
Speaker 4:Are you with me?
Speaker 1:Yes, how long until we actually start customizing people to fit into certain jobs, to where in the world they're not going to do anything else? How long until we actually customize and take the free will away from people?
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly, and you nailed it right there. You're taking away the free will, and to me that just leads to a path of destruction of society as we know it it just seems to be stale and falling apart type thing, then then destructive it's just.
Speaker 1:It seems like things just stop. Evolution stops, correct, people just stop correct and kind of.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, I think you mentioned ai it goes back to a lack of realness. It's almost like living in a virtual reality where, if you custom ordered your mailman, you custom ordered your military, your senators, your politicians. Then we're just living in almost a virtual reality, where everybody's an NPC.
Speaker 3:Exactly exactly, and I don't think that's, in my opinion, where we want to go. I think, again, we are given this short time on earth to live and to learn, to grow and evolve, and I don't think that you, by rubber stamping and manufacturing and I keep using those terms because that's what it feels like to me you know, you custom order a child like you. You know, scroll through Amazon and and have something delivered. Yeah, to me, that just um that just it, it has a ripple effect.
Speaker 3:I think that is larger and and spans a distance. That is, I don't think that science is taken into consideration, and and somewhat, by selling this or marketing this idea, you know, for those who buy into it they're kind of taking away that free will, that choice, if this becomes a thing, you know.
Speaker 1:I don't think I'd ever do it, but I certainly wouldn't.
Speaker 3:Again, you know, not everybody is going to have the perfect baby, Not everybody is going to have the perfect life, but I firmly believe that's the whole point, because we only grow and evolve from the storms that we survive Right. And if there were no storms, then you know we're all living in this sort of utopia.
Speaker 1:Well see, I think us being pagan, we tend to think nature would do a better job at this.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Now we all admit, nature screws up. Often people are born without arms, with is that a screw-up, though, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying body-wide there's a screw-up, it is. There's just a malfunction in the way it grew. The arm didn't grow, this didn't. It happens right.
Speaker 3:But I think overall, nature is actually trying to make us all evolve anyway correct and and I I would counter that you know even the the person born with a missing limb or, um, a malformed you know, something like maybe a cleft palate. Again, that might not necessarily be a screw-up, that might be intentional, because that might be intended for the path that that soul needs to take.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying it's not I'm just saying yeah, you know that is just. There are hiccups and yes nature's not perfect.
Speaker 1:just like everything else it does, it don't always run exactly the way it's supposed to. Right Things do happen Absolutely Now. With that said, though, I still think it's a better Petri dish to do this, because, again, I still believe at some point there is going to be a being that is literally born that has the best genes of all humanity. If they were to do one of the dna tests and they would put little pins everywhere it was related to, the whole map would light up. They would literally basically be a child of the world a child of the world.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to follow that logic Again. I've already started to see it. How many kids do you know now that are mixed race?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh a ton.
Speaker 1:Right Compared to when we were younger. Correct, all right. Now you have Hispanics starting to marry other people and Asians starting to marry other people, especially here in the United States. How long until someone's born whose, literally, heritage is the whole entire world? If they, like I said, if they were to do the DNA test, it would literally be everywhere. You're a member of every country. You're every culture.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, I see what you're saying Kind of like the ancestry hits on everything.
Speaker 1:Everything equally. You have the best genes of all humanity. I still think that's a no.
Speaker 3:I think this is something I'm looking forward to A long time coming because, ultimately, my original answer before I I saw where you're going with this my original answer was, you know, kind of like the. The only way for that to happen would be, you know, a child created from the god and goddess themselves.
Speaker 1:But I mean, but do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:yeah, because, just, I guess maybe we should frame it a little bit, because we've had this discussion a lot since we were in the same science class um back in high school.
Speaker 3:But, um, you know, scientifically speaking, uh, you get the best dna from your parents, and when you mix those races, not only are you getting the best dna from you know the father and the mother, but now you're getting the best DNA from that race. And so that's where you know, we're kind of going with this is. You know well, what if you know the different races, all of the ethnicities on the planet?
Speaker 1:Right. Somehow were to have an orgy in some way. I don't know how that would even be possible.
Speaker 3:But you're with me. Yeah, I am. If it were to somehow be possible that you have a child that's produced with the DNA of all races known to man, of all races known to man, all ethnicities, then yeah, you would have the perfect example of an individual with I don't know the best of the best, but would we know for certain that that would be? I mean, I don't know that that would necessarily make them superhuman.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it would make them superhuman. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not superhuman. I'm talking about something that can hold a more powerful soul than we can now back to where bigger gurus can come into this world and teach us even more from that standpoint, I absolutely would say yes.
Speaker 3:Are you with what I'm saying that?
Speaker 1:that that somehow our bodies need to evolve to be able to hold a little bit more power, a little bit more energy, a little bit more soul.
Speaker 3:From that standpoint I 100% agree is even though you're getting the best genes from every race, you're also getting some of the complications that come along with it. Certain ethnicities are prone to certain diseases or they have a higher risk that other ethnicities do not.
Speaker 1:But if you have a child, but I'm thinking maybe, if you have a child like this, that somehow what's what one something cancels out something yeah, yeah else and you only get the good side of that gene of everything, of everything could be, yeah, yeah yeah, are you? Are you with me?
Speaker 3:somehow it all balances itself out going look at heart disease risk is lowered for this race because the other one, because you got so many other, has something else right so they can kind of I could see it happening, not in our lifetime no um no, it would be it would be very interesting to witness and see it will be believe it or not, I, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna something to kick. I actually think we're closer to it than we actually think. I think more mixed races happen. Look, look, look back through history. We've been doing this for generations. All right, how many other species Nandataw and all them others did? They kept on saying, oh, wait a minute, we keep on finding their DNA in us.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, that's true, all right, we did not always go out and kill.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we went out and shagged instead. I mean at the end of the day. So again, this is a process that's been happening since the beginning of humanity.
Speaker 3:I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1:All right, I think it's even more speed up now than it was back then true, I think it probably came to a kind of a.
Speaker 3:It slowed down there for a while, maybe had a little stalemate, but I think you're right it's. It's recircled back because we have more open-minded individuals.
Speaker 1:And again, especially in American society, because again I see the mindset from when we were in high school about people dating each other of different races, to the way it is now, the way it is now, nobody even thinks about it. Correct, all right? How many comments have I heard about commercials all being mixed race?
Speaker 3:Well, and now you too? I mean you have kids that don't even see. For example, my kids don't even see race. They will use and kind of proud mom moment here, but I always use the Barack Obama example.
Speaker 3:Use the Barack Obama example During one of the presidential inaugurations we were discussing who was president at each time that you know, children were born and we were telling my youngest that Barack Obama was president when you know the oldest was born, and so we're watching the inauguration. He's like, well, which one is Barack Obama? And my oldest is like, well, he's right there and he's like he's wearing a blue suit and a red tie.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, there's like a thousand people at the inauguration wearing a blue suit and a red tie, and so, of course, my youngest is like which which one, and my oldest used every example or adverb in his vocabulary to describe Barack Obama, but it never once occurred to him to to use his skin color. He was like he's. You know, he's standing three feet to the left of that guy yeah, the guy holding up his hand right now. Yeah, so you know so now we've got kids who don't even see race.
Speaker 1:And so that makes and they don't even think of it as something to describe.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It's not even an adverb anymore, it's not even a description or part of a description in their vocabulary when they're talking. Now I'm not saying that's true, for I think that that's more prevalent now than it was, certainly back during our childhood. But it circles back to your point that if we have kids who aren't even seeing race, who's not even thinking about it Exactly. That increases the likelihood that.
Speaker 1:You're going to date or fall in love with.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Because of their personality, blah, blah, blah, and go with that and right, and and and when they procreate.
Speaker 3:That's only going to intermix, even more so again I see it speeding up.
Speaker 1:I think we're closer to it than we think we are. I have because I have met people who are not just biracial but like tri-racial and I even know, a few people that are what quadracial, and I'm like, okay, I think there's more of that out there than we think.
Speaker 3:I can agree with that. I still think it's a bit off. And would we even know? Would we even know if such a child existed?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean they could put it on the census. I mean, how many people are mixed race versus how many it's not?
Speaker 3:but right now there's no registry. I mean, we're not, you know well, I mean now on the census, just like you know, like we do everything, else, true, true, you know it's all I'm thinking is you start doing that, you start asking, you know or they start, you know, requiring that, with a simple blood draw, which they, you know the government may already be doing. We just don't know.
Speaker 4:Just throwing that out.
Speaker 3:That's another discussion for another time, but um, remember, they're listening.
Speaker 1:What's that saying? Just because you're crazy doesn't mean they ain't watching you exactly, but now that I could get behind.
Speaker 3:But to circle back to the original thought process of being able to genetically alter your child before conception.
Speaker 1:There's a difference in my mind between us doing it and it just happening in nature.
Speaker 3:Correct.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 3:I don't, like you know, I don't.
Speaker 1:For some reason it just it feels yucky when you're sitting there going ooh, hey, yeah, look what we created in a lab.
Speaker 3:Kids aren't casseroles.
Speaker 1:you know, I'm just like ooh, who picked what?
Speaker 3:I just yeah, I'm not digging that either.
Speaker 3:Versus nature, where it's sort of like she does a potluck and what you get is what you get Right and eventually, like you said, at the end of the day there's going to be somebody who got the very best of what nature had to offer, versus something that was, you know, engineered in a lab, right. And again, there's so many different paths this conversation can take. And I still circle back to my own personal experience. I would not have traded any of my children to have had the perfect child. Do I hate that they had, you know, difficulties? Do I hate that they might have a disability or struggles? Absolutely, but I accept that this is what nature gave our family Right, and so we just move forward from there.
Speaker 1:I can understand that Want some coffee.
Speaker 3:I do, I do.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempelseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
Speaker 4:We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days. So walk with me till morning breaks.
