Pagan Coffee Talk
We will discuss topics related to the Pagan community. All views are from a traditionalist's point of view. The conversations are unscripted (no preparations have been made ahead of time). A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: Intro- The Morrigan, Exit - Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Magic for Sale: Ethics and Illusions
The commercialization of magic raises profound questions about authenticity, responsibility, and the true nature of spell work.
Neri, a first degree at Life Temple and Seminary, joins us for a candid exploration of the troubling ethics behind online spell markets. Without the crucial counseling component that traditionally accompanies magical assistance, online spell purchases often miss the root causes entirely; when someone requests money magic, they might actually need help finding stable employment or developing better financial habits—nuances lost in digital transactions. These practices prey on magical naivety while undermining authentic traditions through disclaimers stating spells are "for entertainment purposes only."
Most importantly, we explore how true magical ability comes from within—through self-knowledge, personal development, and authentic connection. While we can't stop the online spell market, we can educate our communities about developing personal magical skills rather than seeking quick, expensive fixes that rarely deliver.
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Speaker 2:So I've got somebody with me here today. Neri, please introduce yourself.
Speaker 3:I'm Neri first degree at Life Temple and Seminary.
Speaker 2:Yay, a subject came up and you wanted to talk about it.
Speaker 3:Yes, and the subject is ethics of selling spells online.
Speaker 2:All right, what do you like or don't like?
Speaker 3:I don't like the fact that none of it is personal, because there's really no such thing as a one-size-fits-all spell.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:And it's energy, like if you're putting something negative out into the world. Who pays that price? Is it the caster who bought the spell? Is it the person who sold the spell? Is it both?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess it really depends on how you look at spells and how they work versus you know what in the world we think of as a business world, where you have a transaction, X amount of money for this product, and you go home and plug up your vacuum cleaner and it works.
Speaker 3:Yeah, another thing is how many people really know exactly what they need in life. You might be asking for a spell for just a windfall of money, when what you really need is a spell for a new job, and the person who sold you that spell hasn't talked to you about what you really need, doesn't know you at all, doesn't know your energy. So you're out here doing spells that you know you don't really need that spell. You need something else and you don't realize it because you haven't spoken to anybody about what you really need, about what you actually need versus what you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, because there is a difference between what you need and what you really need, about what you actually need versus what you want, yeah all right, because there is a difference between what you need and what you want there's definitely a difference between what you need and what you want, I mean I've heard of spells that go like this woman does a spell to start a new life and her family leaves her, everybody abandons her, she loses her house, the whole nine yards, and then she goes to a witch.
Speaker 2:He goes. What did I do wrong?
Speaker 3:well, you didn't you've got that new life that you wanted new life you wanted.
Speaker 2:How much of a clean slate do you need?
Speaker 3:that's another thing is some of these things.
Speaker 2:They need to be very specific and what you're going to get online most of the time is very generic yeah and then you have these wild and crazy things that are just taking advantage of people is the problem here that we're seeing, or the problem you have with this is this because, well, you've been taught to use magic for a specific way, in a specific style, to a certain extent.
Speaker 3:I think some of it is.
Speaker 2:The other is that I mean because we more teach that we use spells and stuff to help counsel. Or yeah, do other things besides just cast the spell.
Speaker 3:Yeah, do other things besides just cast the spell, yeah, but the other thing is, I think some of it really is just a means to make money and the person who's selling the spell doesn't really care about the end result.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:I think that's what part of my problem is is that you have to care about the end result.
Speaker 2:Well, let's admit it, the selling of spells and doing spells for others has been a big part of the community for a number of years, to the point to where we even have comments about them in our laws.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it has been, but you're selling spells to people. You know You're face-to to face you can actually speak to these people.
Speaker 2:What are those laws?
Speaker 3:those laws are. It's basically any person who is selling spells or rituals is a sorcerer and a charlatan and because witches are?
Speaker 2:because, according to the laws, we are never allowed to take money for spells.
Speaker 3:For the power. Yes, it's basically saying never allowed to take money for the power.
Speaker 2:Right Now we can barter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we can barter.
Speaker 2:But we can't necessarily take money.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So it's more along the lines of hmm, derry, hey, I need a spell, and blah, blah, blah, and I just happen to have this tea on me that I know you really like.
Speaker 3:And the first thing I'm going to tell you is thanks for that offer, but have you thought about doing this yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, let's admit it, that's not how we start out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we do start out trying to counsel a little bit, trying to see what this person actually needs, because they again they may not know what they actually need.
Speaker 2:so well, let's put it to you this way. All right, someone does come to a spell to one of us in our tradition. What do you think they're going to get?
Speaker 3:what do you think this? Process is going to be like the first thing they're going to get is a conversation. They're going to get a conversation about why they think they need this spell and make it even worse.
Speaker 2:You're going to probably even wind up getting some type of psychic reading yes, in that process either through tarot cards rooms yes or one of these things. Why do we think this process, this part of the process, is so important?
Speaker 3:because you need to know how something's going to turn out.
Speaker 2:You need to know if you're going down the right path right and you need to know what in the world the person really needs yes, that they really won't. Yes because a lot of people's communications about what they want lack.
Speaker 3:They do.
Speaker 2:You know the quite right wordage or whatever to get them there. So we sort of have to, like you said earlier. Hey, I just need you know money.
Speaker 3:No, you don't, you need something else definitely. And after that, after that first conversation, you might get told to go home and think about it.
Speaker 2:You might be told to go home and think about it. You might be told to go home and meditate.
Speaker 3:Yes, Go home and meditate on the problem, because everybody, we have a knee-jerk reaction to every situation we get in. Yes, we have that initial knee-jerk reaction. What you have to learn to do is not actually react when your brain is saying, hey, I need to react this way. Stop yourself.
Speaker 2:I want to sit here and say it's okay to feel those feelings.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 1:In the moment but, acting on them is not the wisest thing to do?
Speaker 3:No because most of the time that's when somebody's going to pop up and say I need this spell for this Right. When you don't Right, you need to sit down and think about it.
Speaker 2:Right, this is where you wind up with the phone calls of how in the world do I bless the raccoon penis bone to make my ex never get another? My ex never get another.
Speaker 3:When, in that situation, you don't need your ex to never move on, you need something to move on.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying you just don't want nothing to move down there anymore, oh goodness. But again, that's when you wind up with things like that happening, where you've got the people calling you up going. Hey, how in the world can I curse this person?
Speaker 3:because I'm more mad than anything well, the first thing is you need to calm down right. First of all, the idea is to get them to calm down and realize what the world may be really going on here because in my lived experience, if somebody's made me mad, I'm either just too emotional about it or if I continue to be mad about it, they're usually. One of our other laws is usually the gods take the balance, yes, and I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 2:You know it, normally things tend to work out.
Speaker 3:sometimes they do they do, they really do Sometimes, all right, so you have people out here, they do, they do they really do Sometimes.
Speaker 2:All right, so you have people out here they're selling these spells and some of these spells they're selling I'm going to say might be a little dangerous.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And some of the prices on these are freaking ridiculous.
Speaker 3:Oh, my goodness, there is such craziness out there. Oh my goodness, there is such craziness out there. I have seen some that are an initiation ritual into vampirism and they were originally $10,000, but now they're on sale for five and rituals that include working with demons to get revenge, and even one for immortality, and that thing was $20,000, on sale for $10,000. And you had to do the ritual every three months.
Speaker 2:Now here's what kills me is you have a problem with this right.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:But do you have a problem with going down to the local bookstore picking up a book with the word written all over it spell book for $20?.
Speaker 3:See, that is one of the things.
Speaker 2:Now I'm splitting hairs here, Don't get me wrong. What's really the difference between? This is acceptable to buy a spell book with a bunch of spells in it and me going online and buying a spell see, that's the thing.
Speaker 3:Is there really a difference? Because you can get a spell book and have no context as to how that spell is supposed to work, why these ingredients work the way they do, essentially just kind of skipping over the whole Witches pyramid Before the spell, not giving you any warnings Of side effects of the spell or anything.
Speaker 2:So I mean there are other things to casting a spell Besides Place, you know.
Speaker 3:Yes, there is.
Speaker 2:Slot A into slot B and and that's another.
Speaker 3:I mean, you still get it on both sides. No real learning behind the spell, whether you're buying it online or whether you're buying a book you know, but then I hate to be this way.
Speaker 2:If you've been classically I don't want to say classically, but if you've been trained well, I don't want to say classically, but if you've been trained well enough, don't really need to. You just make your own spells.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, if you've been trained well enough, like you don't really need a spell book. I mean, you can have a spell book if you need ideas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but if you've been trained to know you can research the herbs that do this that and the other thing looking up again. You can look it up for yourself.
Speaker 3:Looking up the correspondences for free online yes is a piece of cake and that's another thing is that most of the information, most of the things that people are charging you for, they you can usually find it for free. Yes, if you look hard enough, you can usually find it for free.
Speaker 2:That's sort of the same argument about the people who do the. You got to pay for the witch classes online yes, and I've seen that too, but yeah, you know, you can find the information out there for free or just buy books and yeah work your way around it and with books, I mean you can go to the bookstore and look at the spells and go this isn't for me and put it down.
Speaker 3:You can find something that kind of speaks to you.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean the one like the one spell book I know I have on my shelf, is this thousand something?
Speaker 3:five thousand encyclopedia.
Speaker 2:I have the same one I mean I rarely open it up. Some of them are cute, some me either some of them.
Speaker 3:I look at and go what what? I saw a spell for healing in that book and, if I remember correctly, you're supposed to do I can't remember the exact thing that you're supposed to do, but you're supposed to put your sickness into like a stone or a stick and throw it into the river. Yes, and my thought was are you not putting your sickness into the river and causing everything in that river?
Speaker 2:Well, the idea there, the way that works is, is that the nature spirits or the nature energy that's there is greater than that little bit of sickness and it will demolish it.
Speaker 3:I would hope so.
Speaker 2:All right. There's the thought, with stuff like that, that the water itself is going to cleanse that energy away or neutralize it.
Speaker 3:I would hope so, Cause that was my first thought and I was like oh, why would you do this?
Speaker 2:salt and I was like oh, why would you do this? Well, uh, you know, putting a dark bean inside of a charm, then placing that charm inside of a jar and then filling it up with salt, sealing it up and putting it into the water tends to trap things very well yeah, because salt is.
Speaker 2:You know, you're basically insulating it before you even put it into the water before you put it into the water, and then everything together just sort of traps it there. So again a type of spell or something, but you're still using nature as sort of a guard another thing I did well.
Speaker 3:Another problem I have is energy. How do you like tarot card readings and I can tell you your future like, and I've on Etsy like you can have a five card tarot spread and then you'll have it within the hour. And I'm like how accurate is that when you've never met this person?
Speaker 3:or sat down or felt you've never sat down in front of them no so I performed a little experiment okay um, I bought tarot readings from four different people on etsy. Don't worry, I didn't spend a ton of money, I spent like less than ten dollars um, just to prove a point yeah I asked a specific question and I asked will I ever find love? And I asked that specific question because I've been married for almost 20 years.
Speaker 2:I was was about to say I already know the answer to that question.
Speaker 3:I was like is somebody going to have enough intuitiveness?
Speaker 3:to slap these cards down and say you've already found love. Why are you asking this? None of them had that. None of them had that intuitiveness. They all said, oh, you're going to find love and this is the kind of love you're going to have. Now I will say, when they were talking about the kind of love you'll have, it does pretty much describe the kind of relationship I do have with my husband, but in the end they still don't get it right. Now, if I had been directly in front of them, would they have gotten it right?
Speaker 2:See, but I hate to say it this way, not everyone's good at intuition reading. They're not All right, I mean, and learning how to do, I mean we try to teach y'all intuition reading above everything else. And again, it's difficult because you've been a first for a year and a half Over a year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, about a year and a half.
Speaker 2:Year and a half year and a half, and trust me, I I'm sure you're still struggling.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's because you have to find the type of it's divination. Basically, you have to kind of find the type of divination that really speaks to you, and I'm still working on that. I'm still working on the kind of divination that really speaks to me because when you look at the tarot cards and you see there's 72, and you're like I've got to learn a meaning behind 72 different cards, what no?
Speaker 2:it does seem a little daunting it does um.
Speaker 3:And another point, tiktok, because we've kind of been like all of this stuff I found on Etsy but TikTok there is before we leave the subject of Etsy.
Speaker 2:I know something was brought up about that this is for entertainment use only.
Speaker 3:And that that is the biggie.
Speaker 2:I remember this because Lady Keegan was telling me about this, because she has a store on Etsy, and basically what it amounts to is is people were buying spells and of course, they weren't working at the very bottom.
Speaker 3:It always says for entertainment purposes.
Speaker 2:That's where that's where they had to put that as a loophole.
Speaker 3:That way they get less complaints and won't yes and I can understand the legal part of that, yeah, but when you really look at it, it's making the whole craft a joke well, it's making us seem like con artists, yes, like con artists. Magic isn't something to be taken seriously when it very much is and especially when you put money in there yes, it begins to seem a little trivial and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean I'm sure witches back in the day when they had to Lady Santana and stuff where they had to make a living yes made charms and stuff like that and sold them charms to onlookers and basically tourist people type type people. That's all they were ever done. It was never done as a who got you.
Speaker 2:It's just a trinket yeah, selling so I don't think we felt bad about that, because we knew what we were doing. They knew what they were buying yeah I don't think anybody that came to any of the witch shops back in the day really believed that if they just bought a voodoo doll that they had power. No, no.
Speaker 3:I don't know really anything about voodoo, but yeah, I'm sure there's quite a lot of learning behind how a voodoo doll actually works. But as far as TikTok goes, is it kind of a loophole in the law because you can make a video show on a spell and how to do it.
Speaker 2:You're not charging anybody but you still make money off the views, off the views let's say that sort of makes me think it's more like what you would see in the books. Either you go, and because you have the option, I can go to a bookstore and buy a book of spells and I don't feel bad about it because, again, I'm more likely in most of these books I'm going to get a little bit of a lesson. You are All right Now, if I'm too stupid and skip it myself, that's my fault. You know, unlike when I'm sitting down with an, you know with a wedge, and they're supposedly supposed to be making a spell and they're not telling me about the witch's pyramid and all this other stuff, or not doing a council, they're just going.
Speaker 2:Oh, here's your spell Give me my $5, go, you know, and it's going to cost you $10 to get all the supplies from me that you need too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, $10. But how much of that supply is really going toward that spell?
Speaker 2:Well, I hate to be this way. How supply is really going toward that spill? Well, I hate to be this way. How many of these people selling moon water?
Speaker 3:is it actually moon water? Who?
Speaker 2:knows, I mean to be quite honest with you. I mean, that's kind of like the spring water. How do you know it's spring?
Speaker 3:and don't even get me started on the moon water, because it's so easy to set a jar out in your backyard and just pick it up before the sun hits it. It's so easy, you can do it for free.
Speaker 2:I know, but yeah, people are selling this moon water.
Speaker 3:They do Everywhere. You can buy it online. You can buy it in some of the witch stores. I don't see it in every store I go in which is okay, like most people know. You know you shouldn't be buying moon water. I feel like that's something that most people know, is that you shouldn't be buying moon water.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, there's always that lazy person that thinks, well, if I just get it from somebody else.
Speaker 3:Yes, but how lazy do you have to be to not set a jar out in your yard? I just You're asking me Really to be, to not set a jar out in your yard.
Speaker 2:You're asking me. Look, look, it's bad out there with the way they sell spells. It is, it really is, and trust me, there are a ton out there that are yes, they're telling you what they want you to hear. Yes, I see it on YouTube with the podcast, where every week, they're talking about a new spell or something else.
Speaker 3:Yes, this is a cure, this is a fix-all. Oh, and that's another thing, is marketing. Magic is a fix-all, magic does not. You don't need magic to fix everything in your life you don't Fix all magic does not.
Speaker 2:You don't need magic to fix everything in your life, you don't. It's a conversation. The subject we've kept on trying to approach on the podcast is because you have to start realizing when reality it's starting to be reality and when your perception, or Because unfortunately, in the pagan community we have this thing that because we perceive reality, we make it and because we make reality as we think of it, that we can change the world to whatever we want.
Speaker 3:Yes, but you don't necessarily need magic to change that world to whatever you want.
Speaker 2:It don't work, it's bull. At some point the real world does insert itself there is no spell that's going to suddenly change a tree into an actual person no there's no spell that's suddenly going to make the earth start to spin backwards nope all right. So that's part of where in the world this is. Where does magic end and when does reality kick in? When does magic don't work?
Speaker 3:You know, I think that would be something that the line is different for everybody. I would think.
Speaker 2:I don't think so I think the line is that it's not the fact that we create reality, it's that we each perceive reality slightly different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we do.
Speaker 2:Reality is still the exact same. It doesn't change for any of us. It's just our perception of it or our understanding of it that changes.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:All right. The only things where our willpower starts to, I believe, starts to actually have real effect over our lives is internally, that we're twisting ourselves to fit into those shapes, to go through those, to get what we need.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, it is better to cast the spell for knowledge and wisdom on how to make money than it would be just to do a spell for money.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 3:Because that knowledge is going to serve you for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:That spell might get you $10 next week Again it's the concept Give a man a fish for a day, he'll eat for a day. You teach him the fish he'll eat for a lifetime. Again, this is still the same concept that we're talking about here. If you learn how to do this stuff and you really do understand it you start manipulating this to your advantage.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:All right, it's that piece of a cake. You just trick yourself into behaving certain ways.
Speaker 3:But really the whole thing is there's no, there's no substitute for learning. That's basically all it is. There's no substitute for learning. That's basically all it is. There's no substitute for learning. I think paying for spells online is just a really quick fix. And most of the time quick fixes. You're like, let's say, something worked, but one week later you're back at your starting point. You're gonna have to just keep fixing it over and over, again, again, until you get to the root of it yeah, it's kind of like the.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like my slight problem with uh reiki. Reiki never actually if reiki restraintens out the energy, but if you don't work on the root of the problem, it's just going to knock right back up yes, it is so there's the solution to this. This is where in the world more, where we're trained people to count some more, to try to get people to realize what they need versus what they actually want yes, a lot of times it's people thinking that, oh, these are witches, they cast all the time.
Speaker 3:They cast all the time.
Speaker 2:We don't actually no, no, I'm trying my best to think of the last spell I cast. I believe it was over a year ago.
Speaker 3:Like we don't, because most of the time we don't really need to.
Speaker 2:Okay, Now taking money and stuff off the table, right.
Speaker 4:What about?
Speaker 2:just casting spells for someone who actually has a need. Do you have a problem with that?
Speaker 3:I do not, because in that case and let me give an example Like that girlfriend who has the ex that really doesn't want to leave him alone. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's a little nervousness there and there's something there you can work with.
Speaker 3:Yes, there is, but the first thing I'm going to do is really talk to this person, yeah, and then, if I figure out that there is something I can do to help them, I'm going to say, well, I am going to help you, but not in the way that you wanted me to initially, and here's why.
Speaker 2:Well, now, first of all, I would look at this person. Well, first of all, here's what we're going to do. If they're really bothering you that much, let's go to, let's go to the police department and see if we can file a restraining order or a police report of some kind.
Speaker 3:Now, I'm not saying we won't cast the spell on top. Yeah, to give it a little extra, but we have to, I would say, in certain situations you have to deal with the mundane first.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean casting a spell to protect your house from thieves are great, but if you don't, but at the same time, a camera system and, yeah, lock in your doors. Yeah, they work just fine in conjunction with and see, that's where I see a lot of people getting the problem with is they don't understand that magic works as a conjunction with other things.
Speaker 3:It does, it's not. I kind of compare their thinking to the Christians who are? What are they? I can't remember what they're called, but they just rely completely on faith, healing Right, no medical interventions whatsoever. They have this thought that God is magically going to touch going to come down from heaven and touch their child.
Speaker 2:There are Christian science.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, no medications. No, nothing. Yes.
Speaker 3:To me that's what that kind of feels like is if pagans expecting magic to solve all their problems when it's not.
Speaker 2:Where it doesn't always work no you know I'm not going to sit there and say people haven't been healed through magic or through faith but it's not the only thing.
Speaker 3:It's not the only thing there, there's other factors it's like, yes, you helped the healing process along, but so did that antibiotic, right so?
Speaker 2:or so you know, or that slight cancer treatment or whatever. Most of the spells actually do work in conjunction with something else going on.
Speaker 3:And a lot of times, when you're purchasing spells online or you're copying a spell you saw on TikTok, you're not realizing that. You're not realizing it's supposed to work in conjunction with something else.
Speaker 2:Now we've pretty much trashed the people that sell spells like this. All right, well, I don't want to.
Speaker 3:I don't want to entirely trash them. I did see a little bit of I'm just going to call it a little bit of glimmer of hope, because I did see some who were offering consultations before they would sell you a spell. Okay, I did see some of that, and I did see 95 of what was being sold online was a digital download and you had to do it yourself all right so a lot of people are realizing that if somebody else does the spell for you, it's really not going to work well, let's explain how in the world we we pretty much train people.
Speaker 2:They expect okay, somebody comes to my house. They want a spell. I'm going to sit down and we'll do some type of reading with them. We're going to do some counseling and then I might do a spell for them all right emphasis on might, might all right, and if I do that, I'm going to send them out and I'm going to tell them to get double of whatever items they need for the spell.
Speaker 2:They're going to come back. I'm going to do the spell. The other half of that items I'm going to keep for my charms To sell later, bartering, go figure. Then that spell. We both know right now that that spell is probably going to land flat or nothing. Oh yeah, expectations. So we go ahead and set it up and tell them say now, when this gets done, in a couple weeks, come back and see us.
Speaker 3:In a couple of weeks. Hey nothing's happening.
Speaker 2:So we sit down, we do another reading, we have another conversation with them. Then we might ask them to go out and get the stuff for another spell.
Speaker 2:With the spell slightly altered, we might ask them to go out and get the stuff for another spell, with the spell slightly altered, with the spell slightly altered, where they help us do the spell, then when that sort of works or not works exactly the way they want to it's going to be the third time that they show up. We're going to have this conversation with them where you're going to give them the spell, tell them what they need to go out and do for the spell, and they're going to do it without us, and I'm going to imagine that most of the time the spell is probably not the same as the first one. Nope.
Speaker 3:Because now you've gotten down to the root of what they actually need.
Speaker 2:And we've really created a real spell for them to go out and do and we've had time to sort of train them and hype them up to have that energy to go out and like just a little bit.
Speaker 3:Just a little bit but the point of this pattern is the chance to counsel these people three or four times yes, because that's really what it is is the chance to counsel, and that's really what you're missing if you're buying spells online or, right, paying people to do spells for you, that's really what you're missing is a lot of magic is found within yourself. Yes, and you're not really looking inward you're just looking for the quick fix. The magic is in you exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean there is a, there is a style of spell that we eventually teach to, where you do nothing but sit down and meditate to cast the spells. So it's just pure energy work.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that is what is missing. That is what is missing.
Speaker 2:Now, like I said, we've pretty much trashed the people that sell this. What about the people buying? I mean, do we have sympathy for them? I would have a little bit of sympathy, I mean.
Speaker 3:Because desperate people do desperate things.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Again, they're off the cuff, thinking I need this, I need this, I need this.
Speaker 2:Versus that woman who has to go get a card reading every week or yes every other week, just because?
Speaker 3:and yeah, um, I don't really feel sorry for the woman who's getting a card reading every other week just because, because at some point, I mean, these are also the same people that are casting spell like every day for something, because at some point like you have to stop, like why are you letting somebody else try to tell you how to live your life? Go live your life.
Speaker 2:Nobody else, the cards don't need to dictate your entire life no, no, but some people get into those patterns, some people they do some people rely on their faith a little too much they do.
Speaker 3:It's like having faith in the outside power. They again have yet to realize that power's in you, it's not out there.
Speaker 2:No, it's somewhere deep inside of you and it comes from your feelings. Yes, all right. If you don't feel, you're really not going to do very good at casting a spell.
Speaker 3:No, and really a person who needs to go get card readings that often you have to wonder how shut off they are from themselves.
Speaker 2:Well, does this not show, how much self-doubt they have?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they do.
Speaker 2:I mean because willpower and being very confident in oneself in craft is a very important key.
Speaker 3:It is you have to really know. It's basically really knowing yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's being somebody who needs a card reading is so very disconnected from themselves. And when you're that disconnected from yourself, yeah, you're not going to trust yourself. No.
Speaker 2:No, you're always going to doubt yourself. You're always going to sort of think or always question did I make the right choice, Did I not?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and then you get too wrapped up in it to see where in the world you're going.
Speaker 3:And I've seen people like that. I've seen people like, just, you ask them how they feel about something and they can't really answer you. And then you ask them again and they still can't answer you. And I just think, gosh, this person is really disconnected from themselves.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of people like that. I think that's a different subject. Yeah, that's a different topic and I want to cover that one, but not right now. Anything else about selling spells you'd like to?
Speaker 3:Not really. Like I said, I think at some point we may get to a balance where people are realizing hey, I don't, I mean this, maybe I need something different. It's like when I first came to temple, I was reading, reading, reading, reading all these books, but I knew there was something missing. I think eventually, all these people who are buying these spells all the time, maybe they'll realize that something is missing. Maybe, but who knows, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:This is a problem that has been going on for. Ever, Forever, and it's not anything that's going to be solved overnight. Yeah, all right, people are going to buy spells and again, we can't stop people.
Speaker 3:No, you can't All again. We can't stop people.
Speaker 2:No, you can't All right, I can't stop people from selling. You know, there's no grand witch council. So again, all we can do is sit here and state what the world of viewpoint is. Knowing that there are other people out there. No, no, I'm going to sell a spell anyway, All right.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's on you. You're the one who has to pay that balance. I'm just saying. But on the other hand, I mean you have all of these Wiccan shops out here selling the ingredients for spells, selling candles, selling this, that and the other.
Speaker 2:Well, I've seen them sell the spell in a box when it's a box and it's a pre-made spell with everything in there.
Speaker 3:But the thing is you still have to pick that up off the shelf and go talk to and go say, hey, I want to buy this right. But you have the chance to get counseled on that spell maybe, maybe you know.
Speaker 3:Um, I don't really have so much of a problem with that, because not everybody can take herbs, for instance. Not everybody has the time to grow their own herbs, so it's convenient. It's convenient and selling that stuff online. Not everybody has the ability to get out and go to a store and buy that stuff, so there's. I look at it as it's a blessing and a curse.
Speaker 2:At the same time.
Speaker 3:At the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So there is a good side to all of this being online, but then there's the bad side.
Speaker 2:You can get a little shady there.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Human nature inserts itself and people are always going to try to push the limits of everything, and there will always be people who abuse their power, you know, I mean always.
Speaker 2:Again, it's kind of like those people who go oh, here I'm going to do this fifty thousand dollar spell, but it's on sale for just ten dollars oh, it's on sale for just ten dollars, and I'm only offering it one time this year.
Speaker 3:Like the immortality spell, it's going to be the only one available for this year. For this year $20,000 for immortality, never mind the fact that our bodies are made to expire.
Speaker 2:Not if you inject them with coffee.
Speaker 3:You know what Sounds like a good idea? It?
Speaker 2:does.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pagan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at lifetempleseminaryorg for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, discord, twitter, youtube and Reddit.
Speaker 4:We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our day. So walk with me till morning breaks, the End of Our Days.
