Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk is hosted and brought to you by Life Temple & Seminary, a traditional witchcraft coven in Charlotte North Carolina, with a long-standing initiatory tradition. We discuss a wide range of pagan, witch, occult, Crafte, magic, and Wiccan topics from a traditionalist point of view. We also explore running and operating a coven or group, plus the challenges, conduct, and responsibilities of the pagan clergy. New episodes come out weekly. Our show is entirely unscripted, and prone to occasional foul language, and moments of SPM (spontaneous pagan mayhem!) We hope you join us. If you would like to be a guest, we are always seeking authors, traditional heads, and group leaders to join us. If you have a topic suggestion, please let us know in the comments. Check the about section for links to our social media and website. A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: The Morrigan, & Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Broomsticks & Bestsellers: When Pop Culture Meets Paganism
The magical world of witches has captivated audiences for generations, but how accurately does Hollywood portray the reality of witchcraft?
Remember the cackling hag from Snow White or the Wicked Witch of the West? These early portrayals established witches as figures to be feared and reviled. Fast forward to Bewitched's Samantha Stevens, who used her nose-twitching powers while living as a suburban housewife, marking a significant shift toward more sympathetic representations. Modern shows like The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and Agatha All Along have further transformed witches into powerful, fashionable icons that viewers aspire to emulate.
While Hollywood focuses on spectacular magical powers and dramatic spellcasting, real witchcraft centers on knowledge, wisdom, and religious devotion. Surprisingly, the most accurate portrayal might be the seemingly boring "The Good Witch," precisely because it depicts a witch using intuition and wisdom rather than flashy magic.
This disconnect between media representation and reality creates unrealistic expectations. What's needed isn't less magic in media but more acknowledgment of the religious context in which these practices exist.
Curious about authentic witchcraft beyond Hollywood's glamorized version? Connect with us through our social channels and discover the fascinating reality behind the myths. The truth may be less spectacular than fiction, but it's infinitely more meaningful.
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SPEAKER_04:Let's talk about witches in the news.
SPEAKER_03:Let's just talk about witchcraft and medium. Alright?
SPEAKER_04:Well, what's the difference? What do you what are you thinking?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I'm I'm I'm thinking, okay, well, the first witch we saw on the screen was Wizard of Oz. Oh, you mean media?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, wow. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, again, what was the bet what do you think the best show that represents witchcraft? Yepes. Let's let's talk about this. I mean, what you got hold on. Let's let's name off the shows. You got what? First of all, you got Wizard of Oz.
SPEAKER_04:Oh man.
SPEAKER_03:Then then you brought Bewitched. Uh Tucker's Wife. All right. Tucker's Wife was about a witch that I don't remember it, but yeah. Yeah, they they solved crimes.
SPEAKER_04:Technically, you could put I Dream of Jeannie.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Um, oh my gosh. The craft, the movie, obviously.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, don't forget. The Good Witch.
SPEAKER_04:The Good Witch. Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Cartoon and Practical Magic.
SPEAKER_03:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04:Um, The Witches of East Witch. Okay, we can keep going, Hellbater. I mean, there's a lot of things. Oh boy. All right.
SPEAKER_03:So which ones were good? And then again, and we still have Agnes all along. So which ones, which what was actually good? What was bad? Oh practical. We're talking practical magic and I'm not even bringing anime in advance.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, you have um oh, there's so many. This is crazy. Um, okay, so let's let's all right. So you start, let's go back to the origin. All right, so the first okay, so the first vision I have in my head of a witch is not the Wizard of Oz. It's Snow White. It is the Snow White cartoon, and it is the old hag with the apple.
SPEAKER_03:Funny, when I think of witches, the first thing I think of is Narnia and the White Witch at the beginning.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Yeah, I think cartoons. I mean, the other one I picture is, you know, from Warner Brothers. Yada.
SPEAKER_03:She, you know, was Yeah, the old the the old Lindy Tune Witch.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and she was trying to cook Bugs Money. Um good God. So which ones are good, which ones are bad?
SPEAKER_03:Um are you ready for this? I want to tell you, the the the show I think actually gave the best of what we really are, the good witch.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:The most boring show ever. Interesting. The good witch is actually probably closer to what where we actually are versus any of the others.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I think that the newer stuff has definitely gotten better.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I think that the newer material, especially the mythological, has really gotten a lot of it right. You know, like I just finished watching The Sandman on Netflix. Oh, God. And oh, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I again watching anything Vikings now, the myths are a whole lot more for sure. And anything Celtic, it's a little bit better than what it used to be.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. You know, and obviously, because people have such a different view of magic and witchcraft now, we've gone from it.
SPEAKER_03:Used to be the hag, the old, crotchety, ugly, the green space, the jealousy, and the nose.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, she was always angry and full of vengeance, and you know, she used her magic poorly.
SPEAKER_03:And now we have this complete opposite end of the spectrum, which is this glorification of a witch not only as beautiful and powerful, and you know, as the heroine, uh it's sort of turned up to silky suede to the point to where okay, just watching it gives me a cavity.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I don't know about that. I think it's just again, it's it's that glorification. We went from it. Used to be like for kids at Halloween, if you were gonna be a witch, you accepted the ugliness of it. You accepted the fact that it wasn't, and this sounds weird when we're talking about kids, but right, it wasn't a sexy costume. Not now it is. Now it's it's all glamour, right? Right.
SPEAKER_03:So those kids grown up and we have the sexy witch costumes now.
SPEAKER_04:So I don't know. Um gosh, there's so I mean, there's so much to pull from. You're killing me with this.
SPEAKER_03:Uh raising up Ravda Duck. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I I mean I've watched like the new Sabrina the Witch.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I do think that some of it's kind of accurate.
SPEAKER_03:Some of it's not.
SPEAKER_04:Some of it's very off-based.
SPEAKER_03:Um I it's definitely from a certain point of view, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:But remember, it always like you know, annoys me a little bit that it's like this was an archie comic.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, you know, yeah, it's hard to believe that that was part of the archie universe.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, the craft, as much as not the movie, the TV show. The TV show was had some very accurate moments and ideas, but they never took it far enough. No, they didn't. And the movie, I look, I love the movie, but the movie was not. I mean, come on. There's they made up an entity that doesn't even exist, right? Right? Like, I mean, I can't remember.
SPEAKER_03:And and don't even get me started on the second one because a remake is even worse.
SPEAKER_04:That was terrible. Um, but Buffy the Vampire Slayer did a pretty good job.
SPEAKER_03:I Willow was a really good example. You you are right.
SPEAKER_04:I think she is a good example of yeah, I think the reason Willow is such a good example is because her trajectory, her development in craft is actually very accurate.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:The nerdy bookie research, you know, she was very, very astutely intellectual in her search of craft. The only problem is we're still back to none of these portrayed as a religion. No, it's strictly a magical practice.
SPEAKER_03:Well, even in practical magic, which I love this and I love the book.
SPEAKER_04:Which, by the way, is being remade.
SPEAKER_03:Again, it is?
SPEAKER_04:Yep, there's a new practical magic. Oh my god. I don't even know if it's a remake or just a part two, but they're different.
SPEAKER_03:Well, look, after the after Gilmore, after Happy Gilmore 2, I'm sorry, is there anything new going to actually come out?
unknown:I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Probably not.
SPEAKER_03:I just yeah, different issue. But why? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Because I mean, witches are popular. I mean, look, they did um what are the Sanders Sisters? What is the name of that one? Oh, it drives me nuts. Um a lot of people love that one too, and I know I was never a fan of.
SPEAKER_03:What's the latest the musical that just came out? Wicked. Wicked.
SPEAKER_04:Wicked's been around a long time and now it's a movie, and now you know that movie is gonna be probably at least a trilogy. Um, and now we've also gotten into this, you know, the magical school, the witch school is such a gigantic trope in so many ways. And I find that hilarious because the truth of a magical school is it's a bunch of people in plain clothes sitting around someone's dining room table, yeah, drinking coffee and talking about theology and mythology and history. History, yeah, not at all what it's portrayed as.
SPEAKER_03:Um a lot of us wish it was, but it's not.
SPEAKER_04:I think I think that's really my issue with so much of it, is it's washed the religious aspect is washed out entirely. And it is, and I don't think there's an irony there because I don't think the masses would accept it as much if it was presented in that way.
SPEAKER_03:Well, well, again, they they they they wash away our knowledge, they wash away our experience and our wisdom on a lot of this. Yeah, because when we look at the older stories, when we looked at like the Merlins and the stuff like that, when we look at the these people came to us for our knowledge and our wisdom, not our access to magic. Right. And now all the stories seem to be about the access of magic and not the access of knowledge, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that's why I like The Good Witch because they're the only they're the only show that I saw that actually did it the other way around.
SPEAKER_04:Which is why it was so boring. Thank you. I know, I know, because the truth is it's not that exciting. It's not. We give advice, that's it. Yeah, I mean, it yeah, there's something to be said for the spectacle, the show. I mean, and people, you know, people like it. It's look, it's but but it's the same way if you extracted Christianity, if you extracted the dogma, if you extracted all, if you took Jesus out of the Bible, right? Right and told his story and told about the magic and the feats and the different, it'd be freaking cool. It would. But it's not faith-based anymore. No, it's just about the use of magic and trickery. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Special powers you don't.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And that's the thing about it is that it's the specialness, the otherness that everybody wants to achieve. And therein lies the problem. There's no otherness about us.
SPEAKER_03:There's nothing we're not we while we may be the star of our own stories, is our story, not everybody else's. Nobody else cares about my story.
SPEAKER_04:No, it's and it's not that fanciful. No. There's Agatha was not bad. There's a lot of elements of Agatha I liked from the trial standpoint. Um there are elements of both the Scarlet Witch and the Agatha story that I mean again, but they're we're talking about tiny pieces, tiny little like things that make a real witch giggle and go, I know what they did there. Yeah, you know, but that's it. The rest goes over people's heads mainly. Right. So it's like, I think they have advisors. Now, this is something fun because I don't know if you know this. A lot of people don't. The original Sabrina the Teenage Witch, the one from the 90s, right, where Salem was a decrepitly horrific, right, animatronic cat that was terrifying. Do you know, right, that most of it was written by and the advisor for the show was Silver Ravenwolf.
SPEAKER_03:Does not surprise me.
SPEAKER_04:She was a major, major component of that program because they felt like they needed something to make it a little more credible and a little more modern.
SPEAKER_03:I don't think they actually achieved that.
SPEAKER_04:I don't think so either. I mean, it was a comedy. It was a comedy and it was cute and it was silly.
SPEAKER_03:I again, I don't hate the show. I would sit here and watch it.
SPEAKER_04:But when you compare it to the new one, you see how we've gone for something much more darker, very sinister, again, very sexy. Like when you look at this, this was the thing I did respect about the original Sabrina. She was just a girl. Yes, she was an average, everyday teenage girl for that time period.
SPEAKER_03:With this thing that was something extra that I needed to either just work around or it was also why I always loved Bewitched.
SPEAKER_04:It was the same thing. She was just a typical housewife.
SPEAKER_03:I'm not trying to be on the surface. I just want to be a housewife. That's fine.
SPEAKER_04:Now but okay, so with Sabrina, uh well, hold on. So with Bewitched, then you had the mother-in-law. She was right hilarious because she represented the otherness, right? She represented this idea of this much more profound character, and her daughter was rebelling against it.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_04:But now you look at you compare the modern Sabrina to the original Sabrina, and it's like she is not the average teenager, she does not in any way, shape, or form look like the typical teenage girl. There's again something much more stylized about the whole thing.
SPEAKER_03:More grandiose. Yeah. What would really be for sure.
SPEAKER_04:There's a part of me that thinks Harry Potter would have actually been a better story if you took the three kids and extrapolated them, pulled them out of Hogwarts and put them into our world.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And you have to figure out this in this world and not get there's a better level of which makes it a little more like Stranger Things.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. But yet Stranger Things doesn't claim that anybody's a witch. You know what I mean? There's yes, there's magic.
SPEAKER_03:There's magic and there's might as well be, but but there's no actual definition of it. Well, see, my my only problem with Stranger Things is it just shows that communication goes a long freaking way.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. For real. But it's you know, it's like anything else. We've gotta make it glamorous, we've gotta make it more intriguing, we have to make it bigger, batter, more.
SPEAKER_03:We're not, I'm not gonna sit here and say that I haven't stopped and watched an episode of Bewitched just because it happened to be on TV and it's bewitched. I enjoy the show for the show itself. I don't enjoy it for its relationship of witchcraft necessarily. Are you are you with me?
SPEAKER_04:No, because her to call her a witch wasn't even remotely accurate. No, I mean she was a superhero effectively. She just had magic powers. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's a funny thing, and I think that the trend will continue. We're gonna see more of this. Oh, there was a show. There was one I really enjoyed. Um, but again, the magicians, not at all, but I mean, I think very well done.
SPEAKER_03:Well, again, just like the order, by the time you got done watching new order, it was all about the magic and not about the religious, even though you saw where they maybe try to insert maybe some of those ethics and morals, yep. But they still don't quite get there. So I don't think anybody's going to go around and make a show about a witch shop and the stupidity that goes on. No, I why it would be funny.
SPEAKER_04:I do think, I do think this is what's gonna happen. I think at some point we are gonna see two things potentially take place. The first is we are gonna get a major motion picture of one of the primary founders. We're gonna get Alistair Crowley's, you know, or Gardner or, you know, one of those. It's going to be a movie. Right. And I think that that could really shed some light on things. It will also potentially freak people out a little bit.
SPEAKER_03:Well, do do you ever think we'll get into like places like with soap hoppers and stuff where they'll actually have characters who follow the religion, not the magic, but the religion. Maybe where we get where we start getting characters maybe like this, where we actually have people following.
SPEAKER_04:I think that's gonna come in cartoon form first and pave the way for that. Maybe because I don't think people are ready for that from its realness.
SPEAKER_03:Because I again I would personally love to see a witch character where it was about the religion and not about the magic.
SPEAKER_04:Now, I do think where the potential for that might exist. I am shocked that it hasn't already been done, especially with the popularity of ghost hunting and you know, all of that. Um, and and things like you know, the the Warrens and you know, the conjuring. And I am shocked there is not a reality TV show centered around a witch shop. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Again, what what was that? Uh pawn stars.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, pawn stars.
SPEAKER_03:Like, yeah, there's I'm I'm with you there.
SPEAKER_04:Reality TV covers everything else. But that it's it's due, and I think that it's realistically that's something we're probably gonna see in the next 10 years.
SPEAKER_03:Because I would love to say this if it's one of the New Orleans.
SPEAKER_04:Well, but here's the thing we already kind of have some of that happening in the sense that with Witch Talk, you have a ton of store owners that are documenting their day-to-day and that are documenting, you know, certain things. But I think to turn that into something a little bit more prime time or mainstream would be really interesting. Now, I unlike you, I disagree about the New Orleans connection, unfortunately. Oh. Because the majority of the shops in New Orleans are unfortunately owned by people who at this point are just in it to make money.
SPEAKER_03:So we're talking tourist traps.
SPEAKER_04:Mainly. The biggest one is Hex. And Hex is actually Hex has two locations. Hex has one in Salem, and it has multiple locations in New Orleans. And Hex is owned by uh, I can't remember his name, but it's one of Lori Cabot's children.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And Lori Cabot, of course, being the uh the the resident witch of Salem. Um, you know, she's still around. She's very old now, but she's still around. But Lori Cabot, I think, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if her or one of her people had a hand in something like that. But my issue is they've become a farce. This is gonna sound really bad, but I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Lori Cabot and her crew, they're mostly what I would call star fuckers. Okay. They are people who strictly follow whatever is gonna get them the most attention, the most views, the most publicity.
SPEAKER_03:Um so so the so you're putting them in the same categories as the late 80s psychic absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:You know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_04:The the whole yeah, Lori Cabot for me, I lost all respect for her when she appeared in a God Smack video. Oh god. Because Sully, the lead singer of Godsmack, who is a practicing pagan and who is openly of craft, I believe, or at least he calls himself pagan, whatever, he is an initiate of Lori Cabot. And so, or an honorary initiate, one or the other. But either way, Lori Cabot and her coven appeared in the God Smack video voodoo. And I was like, I'm out, I'm out, I'm done, because that is something craft would never do. We would never make a mockery of our circle and our sacred rites and put it in a for a freaking music video, right? It was disgusting. Now, if you want to do a documentary and you want to act fine, great, educate people, but it was it was all for show.
SPEAKER_03:Um, you know so, so so or well, let me ask you in this case, because you know more about media than I do, all right. Are we talking or are witches not allowed to use any publicity is good publicity? Are you are you with me? Oh, yeah. I mean I mean so we're not allowed to do that, but yet all the other I don't think it's a matter of look.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, that's like saying, you know, the righteous gemstones, which has been a wildly popular show right now on HBO, and you know, they just wrapped the final season, and you know, Danny McBride is the creator. That would be like saying that that show put the Christian mega churches in a good light because it certainly did not. It made for great television, it was very funny, but come on, I mean, it it literally it's a mockery of what those things actually are, and I mean, not you know, I have my own opinions about those, but it took it to a next level. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:So you don't actually believe that any media any media attention is necessarily good.
SPEAKER_04:No, no, because it's it's the same way I feel about Harry Potter. Harry Potter upsets me simply because you have children running around with magic wands and with their, you know, uh Hogwarts cloaks and right, I'm a witch, I'm a witch, but like there's no there's nothing behind what they're doing, they have no concept of the act of what it actually represents.
SPEAKER_03:They don't have that why behind there, exactly.
SPEAKER_04:And without that, it's just for show. So yeah, it kind of it kind of upsets me. I don't, I don't like it. Does it does it make us more accepted? Sure, but it also makes us more accepted in the sense that people go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The there, there's a witch, you know, there's a group of witches in town, or there's a covenant, whatever. They're just you know, they're just running around with their wand. They think it really is Harry Potter. They think that we're a bunch of adults who are making up nonsense words in Latin and you know, pointing wands at things. It's like, no.
SPEAKER_03:No, that's not so so I now I have to ask. Now I said what my favorite one was. What about yours? What was your favorite show, the show to which? That you think maybe put us in the best light.
SPEAKER_04:Um put me on the spot. I don't I don't know. I really liked the way Vikings, the show Vikings perceived the seer.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:I thought that that was really pretty accurate.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Um creepy, but accurate. I'm trying to think if there's something recently that's really made a big impression on me like that. And I think outside of the just, you know, again, enjoying a particular program for its entertainment value, I don't uh there's not a lot. No, there's not there's not any one particular one that makes me go, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:That's a great way to look at what we do. Yeah. Not really.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_04:Kind of sad.
SPEAKER_03:It is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:All right.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Tempelseminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.
SPEAKER_00:We travel down this trodden path a maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres, and so it is the end of our days, so walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our days, so walk with me till morning breaks.
