Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk is hosted and brought to you by Life Temple & Seminary, a traditional witchcraft coven in Charlotte North Carolina, with a long-standing initiatory tradition. We discuss a wide range of pagan, witch, occult, Crafte, magic, and Wiccan topics from a traditionalist point of view. We also explore running and operating a coven or group, plus the challenges, conduct, and responsibilities of the pagan clergy. New episodes come out weekly. Our show is entirely unscripted, and prone to occasional foul language, and moments of SPM (spontaneous pagan mayhem!) We hope you join us. If you would like to be a guest, we are always seeking authors, traditional heads, and group leaders to join us. If you have a topic suggestion, please let us know in the comments. Check the about section for links to our social media and website. A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: The Morrigan, & Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
A Day Among Pagans at Carolina Pagan Fest 2025
At this annual event just outside of Greenville, SC, Carolina Pagan Fest gives people from parts of North Carolina, South Carolina, and parts of Georgia a chance to come together in celebration.
This year we tried something different. We went with the intention of talking to some of the vendors who also had a purpose other than selling their wares as well as one individual with a slightly different perspective on the Pagan community. Here are the folks we spoke to (please share and support):
Becki Roberts - Free Mom Hugs - scleaders@freemomhugs.org - Facebook Free Mom Hugs – South Carolina
Tony Brown - North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca - NCPCOW - Home
JoAnn Sinclair - North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca - NCPCOW - Home
Monica Evans - Self-professed Christian at a pagan festival
Angelica Herandale - Morningstar Healing and Magick -
ko-fi.com/morningstarhealingandmagick
Jozlyn Bodine - Upstate Ethereal Explorers - (11) Facebook
Jennifer Lesko - Two Crafty Ravens - (11) Facebook
Join us on
Discord: https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook
Welcome to Peggy Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.
SPEAKER_03:Well, Lord Knight, this is a first for Pagan Coffee Talk. We are going to um we're gonna see what happens today. This is an experiment. So we are a big experiment. A big experiment, yeah. So we are at Carolina Pagan Fest um in the suburbs, the woods basically of Greenville, South Carolina.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And we are uh here with Lord Lou's group and um loads and loads of other pagans and vendors, and literally we're in the woods. We're in the woods. Fantastic. Yep. So uh we are going to be doing some recordings and some interviews, and we're gonna try to talk to the people and um yeah, bring the pagans to the podcast. Or the podcast to the pagans. I don't know. We'll go with both.
SPEAKER_02:I know that guy wouldn't go to the mountain, the mountain came in the hammer.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I've heard. That's the rumor.
SPEAKER_02:Let's think that works.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm thinking we're gonna. In case you didn't hear that, the 1130 classes are beginning. Um so we're gonna go ahead and grab some coffee and get this show on the road. Alright.
SPEAKER_10:Wonderful. Hi Maggie.
SPEAKER_02:How are you today?
SPEAKER_10:I'm wonderful. How about yourself? I'm doing great.
SPEAKER_02:So you're here with mom uh three mom hugs, right?
SPEAKER_10:How did you get involved in this? Um, I actually helped start the chapter here in South Carolina six years ago. Um for me, um, I had a couple of friends that had been together for 30 years and they um had been strong together, and their families just wouldn't really acknowledge it. They were a couple.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_10:They'd be like, when are y'all gonna move out from each other's homes and get married and give us some grandchildren? Even though everybody knew ants and the and so when they could get married in 2018, they decided to get married and their well, their family didn't come, and so our group of friends showed up and stood in, and we were their family for the day. So about a year later, I heard about Free Mom hugs, and I knew that it was desperately needed because I had witnessed firsthand how people can be abandoned by their family, ignored, or put on a shell for what they believe in, who they love. And so I wanted to make sure that the upstate community had that.
SPEAKER_02:So so what what does free hugs do? I mean, what what what do y'all actually do?
SPEAKER_10:Okay, so we will stand in at weddings, graduations, baby showers, places where families should be, right, but can't be or won't be, regardless of the reasons. We go and we try to fill in that space. Now we know we can't replace someone's mother. That's a hole that I can't fill, but I can at least offer them a softer place to land during those times. Um, and so we just go, we do that. We're at prod events, events such as this here, offering hugs and support and just letting people know that we love them and we see them, that they're valid, and that we all are, and that we want them to know that they have a community that they can lean on, lean into, and count on.
SPEAKER_02:Well, now I gotta ask, do y'all teach hugging techniques?
SPEAKER_10:Actually, I that's a great question because we do, because first consent is key. You don't go and just hug someone without their permission. Not everyone wants to be touched. So when they don't want to be hugged, we offer fist bumps, elbow bumps, so a good cheer. Um you know, you get different kinds of hugs. There's some people that hug you, that side hug, like you're hugging your stinky ain't Edna. And then we have folks that, you know, are happy and they just it's a joyous hug. And then you reach those folks who really need that space, that sacred space to be inhale, and just that touch that maybe they've not had in a while from someone who they look at as you know, a mother or a grandmother. Uh you don't have to be a mother to hug. No. Um, you can we offer dad dad hugs, gunkle hugs, sibling hugs, because you know, we don't know what you need. You know, you may need a motherly figure, you may need a more fatherly presence, you may need a sibling. So, you know, we try to make sure that there is there's someone there always present for whoever whatever need they may have in that moment, like it be it the joyful or if it's that lean in into. Um to quote Glenn and Doyle, she uh did a word called Brutiful, and it's when the work that you do is brutal and beautiful all at the same time. And so I think this work is it's brutal work, and it's much needed everywhere. Um we started in Oklahoma, and now we have a chapter in all 50 states, Australia and Japan.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_10:So uh this mission grew really fast, faster than anyone would have thought it would. Uh, and in some cases, you know, we grew faster than the infrastructure, and so we have had to, you know, reevaluate as we went through because we didn't, you know, Sarah Cunningham, our founder, had no idea this was going to be what it is. Um, she started when her son came out, and she was trying to reconcile her faith and the love she had for her child. And so she went to a pride parade with them and a handmade button that said free mom hugs, and she stood on the corner at pride and offered hugs that day. And sorry, and it changed sorry, it changed her whole perspective.
SPEAKER_02:Oh what?
SPEAKER_10:So she she made a Facebook post that said, you know, if your family won't come to your same-sex wedding, uh, I'll be there. I'll be your biggest fan, I'll even bring the bubbles. That post went viral, and four months later there were chapters in 30 states.
SPEAKER_02:So, what's your hope for the future for this?
SPEAKER_10:A year ago, my hope was that I would hug myself out of a position that I would not be needed. I want I want my goal would be to be obsolete. Okay, but that is not where we are right now.
SPEAKER_02:No, but it's a good goal to have. I agree with you there. I like that. So, how long have you been in this community? Pagan community-ish?
SPEAKER_10:Uh, last year was my first pagan fest, and um I fell in love. I did not realize that this community was here. I had been by myself practicing for a decade. And so when we heard about Pagan Fest, I was like, I want us to be there too. And so I reached out and they offered us a space last year, yeah, and they've not been able to get rid of me since I love that. Um but we we just want to be where we're needed, and that's everywhere. It really is, it's everywhere.
SPEAKER_02:Is there anything else you'd like to tell our listeners about the organization or yourself?
SPEAKER_10:Um I would just want people to love their people, to just love them, love them, accept them, and don't ostracize people who are different than you because you don't understand. Take time to know people and just to offer them that love and that acceptance because you don't know where whether or not they're getting it in their own circles.
SPEAKER_02:I can believe that.
SPEAKER_03:We gotta get Becky some coffee.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Becky, thank you. And thank you. Hey, hey, hey, I haven't seen you in so long.
SPEAKER_04:I know, I know.
SPEAKER_02:So, I mean, this is like the second event we've came to. Yeah, sorry. All right, let's talk. What's going on?
SPEAKER_06:Well, uh what you see around you. We got uh got our church booth set up over there, uh, and when we saw each other last, we were at Hearth Fire in Gastonia, and that's a project that I've been working on that I'm very pleased with.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, can we hear a little bit more about that?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it's uh it's a day event uh that uh it's uh you can compare it to the old uh pagan pride day events that used to really be ubiquitous, but uh we don't see as many of them anymore. Uh especially in the in the Charlotte area. Right. Uh so it felt like there was a need for something that would let people from different groups, people uh individuals that aren't affiliated, to have something where they could come together and really connect with their community. Um so we we searched around for some imagery for some mythic hook that could could draw draw us in. And it was just right there, the hearth. Right. To pull people together. Um and that's what we did. We uh last year we did it. Uh we did tried it in September and it was too hot. And uh it was a little warm. It was a little warm. Uh and it was uh we we've tweaked the formula a little bit. Uh we've tried to restrict the number of vendors so that it was so that the focus of the group didn't become just another pop-up market. Right. We wanted it to really be um geared toward and focused on the building of community with workshops and rituals, and uh the big goal is to have people from different parts of the pagan community who don't always see each other. That's it was so good to see you there because it had been a long time since I'd seen you. But it was great because there you were. And you know, it was it was just wonderful to reconnect and to see people with fresh faces that had never been part of the community before. True, it has. So I I'm I'm very excited about the Hearth Fire project.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_06:It's which is not uh not technically a Church of Wicca uh project, although the church was in uh involved, uh, was served as one of the sponsors, but I want it to be grassroots, I want the community to own the festival rather than it being something that one group does for everybody. I want it to be something that everyone comes together and does together. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So what's going on with your church then?
SPEAKER_06:Well, the church is going. The church is uh is going out game busters. So we just last year paid off the mortgage on our land.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_06:So we are a a landed organization. Uh it it and it what pleases me about it is that the uh acreage that we own is in the church's name. It's not something that one of the members owns and we get to use. The church owns it. So that even when I'm gone, when everyone else is gone, and it's a whole new crop of people, it's still there. There. And uh so that's lovely. Oh, that's really exciting. Uh we don't we don't have a building, but I don't know that we ever want one. We we want to worship outdoors. We'll uh eventually get some amenities in, uh better, some better parking situation, uh uh a covered area. I think of it as like an open air chapel would be nice. Uh something that is uh just just a presence.
SPEAKER_04:All right.
SPEAKER_06:And uh it's it's uh it's been good. I'm proud of us. Uh you you know, you because you you were with us. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I I would say when you first got seen us. You were.
SPEAKER_06:You you you you saw us in our infancy. And that was a long time ago. Oh god, yes. Uh to the best of my knowledge, we were the first legally incorporated Wiccan church in the state. Yes. And that's it's uh there's a distinction that I think is important. There were uh obviously we weren't the first Wiccan group, we were not not the biggest, not the most active, but we we made an impression in a legal sense that I think is important and brought us forward. So I'm I'm proud of us in that regard. And I'm proud of our longevity. Oh god, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Because y'all y'all have been around quite a while. So, anything else going on? What are we looking at in the future?
SPEAKER_06:And let's see, the the future, I hope more hearth fire, uh more things for the church to do. Um we uh are doing monthly uh uh discussion groups, monthly book clubs. I I'm hoping, and we've been working on this for a long time, is uh is a teaching program that will be open to people outside of the organization. Okay. Uh the uh the idea of it is to provide uh in PDF form lessons that people can take and work through on their own. Uh uh sort of uh like a year in a day program. But more like self-study at the same time. But more like self-study at the same time. Something that'll give people access to to solid information. Uh because you know, you look around and the younger generation coming up, they don't have they don't have the organizations that we had. They don't have the they don't have access to things that that we did in the same way that we did. They rely on resources that that maybe they don't have the discernment to to navigate. Right. You know, we we're looking at witch talk and a lot of social media information. And we would like to give them, you know, a baseline so that they can can work on something.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean there's something to be said to that face-to-face. There's absolutely too. I mean, don't get me wrong, social media has its place, but face-to-face like me and you are right now is a whole lot different than any of that stuff, and there's a little bit more spiritual to me.
SPEAKER_06:Agreed, and there's no substitute for it. No, but the the point is is people are gonna get information regardless, and I can't complain about them thinking weird stuff unless I give them an alternative.
SPEAKER_02:I can understand that. Anything else you'd like to talk about, right?
SPEAKER_06:Um no, I want to say that I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be. I would really appreciate it if you told anybody how to get a hold of you in your organization. You can reach the Church of Wicca uh through our website, www.churchofwicca.org. Uh-huh. Uh, we're also active on Facebook. Uh if you're interested in Hearthfire, and I hope you are, it's an event local to Gastonia, North Carolina, but we pull people in from uh upstate South Carolina, uh the the entire uh Metrolina region. Uh and you can reach us at www.hearthfire-festival.com. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:All right.
SPEAKER_03:Talk to some about um the church itself. I mean really the journey to get to journey. My goodness. There's a history.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, there is a history there. Well, the what started the church is uh years ago, my wife and I were looking for a group to belong to. We wanted to practice and we didn't want to practice on our own. Uh and we looked at some covens, uh, we looked at some different uh groups, and uh the the barriers to meeting uh were substantial. Uh sometimes you know you had to drive a long way, sometimes the commitments involved were beyond what we could make. Uh this and I I in Shelby, North Carolina, I'm standing around and I notice that on every street corner there is a Christian church. And if you walk, if you come into any town in the South and you're a Christian and you want to connect to your community and your faith, then you can slide into the back pew of any Baptist church one Sunday morning, and before two o'clock that afternoon, you know a mechanic, you know, you know a dentist, there's a lady giving you a pie and a plate of biscuits, and and that's and I wanted Wiccans and Pagans to have access to at least some small slice of that. I wanted to uh I wanted something that was accessible, something that did not make a lot of demands up front, something that uh someone who was curious or seeking could slide into at their own level, contribute what they could and take from it what they needed. And uh I ran into a man named Baden Hill, whom you might may have remembered meeting. This was a long time ago. It was a long time ago, but he had uh talked uh with a lawyer and had worked up some uh basic bylaws for a church structure and had started an organization in South Carolina, and he was kind enough to give us access to those resources, and we uh put a call out for people who are interested in starting that kind of organization. We ended up where there were maybe half a dozen of us in in the back meeting room of a Quincy's. I remember that here in Shelby, North Carolina, and we went through those bylaws article by article, and things we liked we kept, and things we wanted to change we changed, and things that we didn't like we we threw out. And we had a document that represented everybody there and what they saw as their vision of the church. So with that collective ownership, we passed the hat and came up with the I think 60 bucks that it takes to uh to do the file to file in North Carolina at the time, and we did. And uh before the I think before the in-bulk of that year, uh we had uh our uh incorporation all settled out and we uh celebrated our first Sabbath together and uh we just went ahead from there. And then it's been how many years now? Uh that was in 1999. So it has been a while. It has been a while. I don't remember being that young.
SPEAKER_02:I do remember being in the back of that Quincy's.
SPEAKER_06:Well, what I liked about it is you could uh get a steak and the buffet on the side. I just remember liking the rolls. Oh god, those rolls were so good. Thank you. Why why can't they do that anymore? What happened to Quincy's? What happened to the rolls?
SPEAKER_04:Clearly, you gentlemen are hungry.
SPEAKER_06:I'm just saying they were they were good rolls. They were good rolls. But I know since then we've one of the things that has driven us is the idea of a uh smooth and frequent transitions in leadership.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_06:So we have you know term limits built in on the the business side of things. Our chancellor uh changes uh changes hands uh uh every three years is the term, and they're term limited to two terms. Uh so we're on our fifth, sixth, seventh, I don't know how how far in uh chancellor. Uh I uh think we're on our third high priest or fourth or fifth high priestess, and we we move from those positions to other positions, and that it keeps us from building up around a personality. Right. With this uh we we work on the structure and the organization above that. Right. So the membership selects the council, the council ordains the clergy, and so it's the the hand of everyone involved up to the highest level. It's grassroots uh up uh rather than a uh top-down philosophy. And that's and I'm I'm not being critical of any other structures. No, that's fine.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just saying that it uh again, it's the way y'all operate, it's not the way everybody does. Exactly.
SPEAKER_06:It was important to me to see that vision, and I'm so pleased that it that it's happened.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, again, with you saying that, I mean, I I tell people all the time, religion's just like shoes. Uh huh. We all need a pair, it's just finding the right pair of the fit. Exactly. Exactly. Again, not everybody's gonna go our way, and not everybody's gonna go. Exactly. But it's nice to know people like you. So when they come to us and they go, and I go, no, you might want to go see these guys instead.
SPEAKER_06:And and vice versa. People like this is not what I expected. I'm like, well, there are other things. Other groups that's different. There are worlds other than these. Because none of us have the way. Exactly. But we can all get together. Events like this. Yeah, I love I love what's happening here today because you and I we're 10 feet apart. Uh there's another group, uh, Caddy Corner to us, that uh runs a community group completely free of path sensor. That they are uh a multi-path, non-uh doctrinal uh community group, and that's wonderful. Yeah. That there's a free mom's hug. There's everything here, and we're all together working together for a common goal. Yes. It's God, it pleases me so much.
SPEAKER_05:It does make it so I really do appreciate that. So good.
SPEAKER_03:So Joanna, uh wait a moment is that. I'm up there yourself. Sinclair. Yes. NCP.
SPEAKER_12:I just got divorced on Thursday.
SPEAKER_02:So we're talking about divorce.
SPEAKER_03:So you are how are you related to Tony?
SPEAKER_12:So I yeah, I've been with the Church of Wicca for almost 10 years now.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:I've been the chancellor for the past two or three years. Two or three years? Two or three years, yeah. Um Tony Brown was the first person from the Church of Wicca that I met. I back when we do an event called Wicca Wednesday, where we just kind of chill and we talk about witchy things on the first Wednesday of every month. But back then it was pagans in the park.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_12:And I attended that for the that was like the first Wiccan event that I ever went to uh since moving back to North Carolina. And I went in and I sat down with Tony Brown and I said, I don't like Wicca. I identified as a pagan. I've been a practicing pagan since I was about 13. My introduction to paganism was Scott Cunningham.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:Um but my experience with Wicca up north was not a very good one. Lots of very traditional Gardinarian Wiccans were there. Um I went and I sat down with Tony Brown and I said, I don't really like Wicca, but changed my mind. And we talked about every book that I've read, and I just happened to have read a lot of books that he read, and I just kept going to their events, and now here I am.
SPEAKER_02:So did you ever change your view on Wicca?
SPEAKER_12:I did, yeah, I did. I identify more as an eclectic Wiccan, I think, not so traditional.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_12:Um, I think a lot of the people in the Church of Wicca identify as eclectic more than anything else. I uh am polytheistic, I work with eight deities.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:On a more personal level, I uh the first deities that I started working with were Gaia and Ornos.
SPEAKER_04:Alright.
SPEAKER_12:So a lot of the deities I work with are more Greek. Um Tony Brown is Dionysus all the way, so we've had many, many, many, many, many conversations about that as well. Um in my personal practice at home, I still kind of follow that more eclectic vibe. I don't, a lot of my stuff is herbal based.
SPEAKER_02:Alright. Now, as the Chancellor of Piedmont Church of Wicca, if I showed up, what am I gonna what am I getting?
SPEAKER_12:So, if you came to one of our rituals.
SPEAKER_02:If I came to one of your rituals, give me kind of a little bit of a low down. What am I gonna get?
SPEAKER_12:So we do we meet once a month, so we meet for the S-bots and the Sabbaths.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:If you come to an S-bot, it's a little more relaxed, a little more um not so structured as our Sabbaths are, I would say. For our S-bots, we schedule them with the phase of the moon. Right. And we do different, lots of different things for our S-bots. But when you come to a ritual, what you can expect is to find a bunch of pagans hanging out in the woods, and for a while we just hang out, we socialize, we do a potluck, and then we do circle. And our circle, our rituals do follow a more um wicken outline. We get in the circle, we cast the circle, we call on the god and the goddess, and we encourage our everyone that's in circle to call on their own personal deities in that moment. The high priest and the high priestess will call the god and the goddess, but you can fill that in with your own personal deities. And we'll do a little ritual, we'll do cakes and ale, we do prayers where we walk in the circle. Everyone can say a prayer, but you don't have to. Um and then we close the circle. We call on the elements, dismiss the elements. It's not super, super formal, but there's still that formality to it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So in uh any other services, weddings, funerals, I mean.
SPEAKER_12:Yes, yes. I well, being chancellor, I am not clergy. Okay, as chancellor, I handle more of uh the business part of the church. I lead the council in our meetings. Our business meetings are also open to the public, so we encourage lots of people to come to those, see how we operate. Um as chancellor, I represent the church in a more businessy manner, I would say. As not being clergy, I still counsel people as needed. Um but I do not perform weddings. However, our clergy do perform weddings, and I've been to many of them.
SPEAKER_02:Well, then what would it take to become a clergy through one of the yeah?
SPEAKER_12:So to be clergy, we have a whole educational program that's led by our by our high priest and high priestess, and we are also working on a more formal educational program. I have written many pieces for that. Um to be clergy, we do do the year and a day. And it's led by our high priest, so he will give you him and the high priestess will give you different homework assignments, basically.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:And then after that year and a day, you they either recommend you to be clergy then or they say, actually, we're gonna keep going with your training and we'll get you there. If you come to us and you say you want to be clergy, our goal is to get you there.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Anything else you'd like to tell us about your self, your temple, any organizations, uh we're also involved in?
SPEAKER_12:I don't know. Ask me questions. I'm better at answering questions.
SPEAKER_02:We're all better at answering questions.
SPEAKER_03:I think it would be interesting to go back to what you were saying about your experience versus.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah. So I'm originally from Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:And it's a huge, huge city, lots of different stuff. Um my experience with pagan groups up north was really not great. And it could have been a different it was a different time. I was very, very young. And a lot of the people in those groups were significantly older than me, and they did not, I don't think they appreciated my input very much. Like there, I didn't move south until 18. So I was a child. They had no right to listen to me anyway. But I had read so much and I had so many questions, and they did not, they didn't seem like they wanted to answer those questions. And when it came to finding specifically Wiccan groups, I found that they were more traditional to Gardner.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_12:So they weren't very affirming as far as people within the LGBTQ community. They were not very open to um different beliefs that didn't follow their strict structure. Right. And I did not follow that strict structure at all. So it was it's very different, and it could be super different now too. I haven't looked into any groups up north in many, many, many years, but it was a huge, huge difference. I spent a lot of time being a solitary practitioner. I've always come at paganism and at witchcraft from a very academic point of view. Um I study psychology, so my spirituality. My spirituality and my uh academia kind of go hand in hand a lot sometimes. That's all good. Um I lived in Hawaii for a long time, and I was a pay a practicing pagan in Hawaii, and I spent a long time learning the uh native traditions there, and I never brought those into my own personal practice because I felt like that'd be kind of weird disrespectful, but I appreciated learning about it a lot. And that's kind of how I come at being a pagan. I enjoy learning other people's practice, practice, you see, yeah. Yeah, I really like talking to people and learning how they incorporate their spirituality into other areas in their life.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Trying to explain to people how in the world this is my life is really hard to explain to people. Like, you know, it does sort of take over every aspect of your life before you know it.
SPEAKER_12:It does, it does, it definitely does. I have an 11-year-old, and he has been raised in that pagan household since he was born.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_12:So that's been a journey too. When he was much younger, um making things more magical was easier because now he's 11. Um, but when he was little, we did a lot of where we had fairy houses and we would do offerings. Like my offerings were much more regular when my kid was little and I could involve him more, and he was more, yeah, my mom's so cool. Now I'm not cool because he's 11. But um that's been interesting too. Um, raising a child that has no idea what that being brought up in Christianity is.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_12:That's been a fun thing.
SPEAKER_02:Alright. What what other things have you done raising a son like this? Um that might be out of the unusual. For for you with the, you know, what would you consider more the pagan way of growing up against the other?
SPEAKER_12:So I would say as far as raising kids with that pagan framework is more like I'm not we we don't he's he's growing up without any kind of religious trauma. He's very educated in not just paganism, but he is also very educated in Christianity and Judaism and Catholicism and several other religion and spiritual paths. He's been raised in a way that we practice this.
unknown:How the hell did you do all that?
SPEAKER_12:I read way too much. Listen, I read so much, but he's aware that these other religions and these other belief systems exist, and that gives him the opportunity to kind of just have that baseline respect for all of these other different practices because he's grown up in the pagan community, so he knows we do it this way at home, we do it this way at church, and other people do it this way, and there's nothing wrong with that. No, the differences are what makes it beautiful.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think it's what makes it fun.
SPEAKER_12:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it'd be kind of boring if we're all the same, right?
SPEAKER_12:Right. So he's very aware of the different paths within paganism. For the longest time, he was obsessed with Zeus and Thor at the same time. And I was like, hey man, that's kind of weird, but I dig it. Yeah, yeah. And then, like, also had a statue of Kali in his room for the longest time, and he would do his own little offerings, and he's just been being a pagan parent's been interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Lady Keegan's oldest boy used to associate Lulal Gifies with Lulu Lou the Skywalker. Oh, because they both lost the norm.
SPEAKER_12:I think that he's yeah, like and he also knows like again, my practice is rooted in herbalism a whole bunch. Right. So, like my kid, when he gets sick, it's not like let's drink all the Tylenol in the world. It's oh no, mom's gonna make me drink that gross fire cider again. So, like, it's things like that, or it's things like our holidays. Our holidays are kind of different. Yes. And when he was smaller, he was able to stay home from school for to celebrate the Sabbaths at home because we would do our own thing at home. And his school couldn't really argue with me, so that made a difference too.
SPEAKER_02:That made a difference, didn't they?
SPEAKER_12:It did make a difference with the school system for sure. They had they learned a couple things for sure. He's also the kid that will take a pentagram to show and tell. So that's been fun. A fun journey, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Anything else you'd like to discuss?
SPEAKER_12:Um, not that I can think of. Do you have any questions?
SPEAKER_02:I I don't have any questions to say for how can people get a hold of you?
SPEAKER_12:Yes, you can find me on Facebook, look my name up, Joanne Sinclair, because I just got divorced. Um, I'm also on the North Carolina Piedmont Church of Wicca Facebook somewhere. But yeah, I'm super easy to get a hold of. I promise. I'm super findable online. Um, I'm also super active in every other part of the community in Shelby. So I'm the president of the local Pride group as well. So you can find me through Shelby Pride. You can find me through I organize community gardens in Shelby. So anything associated with Shelby that's more progressive and calm-y sounding, I'm probably part of it.
SPEAKER_02:All right.
SPEAKER_12:So that's how you can find me.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, it was nice having you.
SPEAKER_12:Nice thing, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_11:Hi Monica, how are you? Um I'm good. All right how about you?
SPEAKER_02:I'm great. And tell me about yourself.
SPEAKER_11:Well, um, born and raised in upstate South Carolina.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_11:Uh went to school at Clemson and um have been here just about all of my life except for four years when I was in New Jersey, which needs to be chiseled off the United States of America and floated out as an island.
SPEAKER_02:All right. I'll take your word for that. I was born in North Carolina.
SPEAKER_11:North Carolina, South Carolina, we're all Carolina.
SPEAKER_02:Just saying. So this is kind of funny because you're at a pagan event, but you're not pagan.
SPEAKER_11:I am I am not pagan, but I have a belief in the concept of doing no harm. Okay. Because I believe that's just a different way of what Jesus said. Uh love God, love others. And so how how can you love others? The best is do no harm.
SPEAKER_02:Do no harm. I completely agree with that.
SPEAKER_11:Um, raised Christian, United Methodist, um, currently in a church Baptist in Greenville, South Carolina, that actually is LBGTQ friendly. We were kicked out of the Southern Conference because we marry people that want to love who they want to love. And the first time I pastor married two men, the Southern Conference said you can no longer be affiliated with us, but we still call ourselves the Baptist Church. All right. Very a third of the congregation is um in the uh LBGTQ. Okay. Third.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_11:Couples with kids, it's really wonderful. It's a wonderful environment to be at. I really love my church.
SPEAKER_02:All right. It seems like a rather large church.
SPEAKER_11:It is, it is a very large church. In fact, we're getting ready to rebuild because we've grown so much.
SPEAKER_02:So, what brings you out here to the pagan event hanging out with us weirdos?
SPEAKER_11:Well, my husband actually is the medic for the event.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and we do appreciate that.
SPEAKER_11:Yeah, and he's very good at what he does, so y'all are very fortunate.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_11:But um mostly, you know, just to be around people of like-minded and uh to see how happy everyone is and how how helpful, how appreciative, how um just uh accepting. And um I I wish our world could be more like that. And I'm not saying that it you should someone should practice one religion or another.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_11:I just the concept of do no harm. Imagine how different our world would be if we did that, if all of us thought that. Now, I I was talking to um one of your friends that asked me about how how, yeah, Lady Alba, how how are you here? You know, how are you here? And I'm like, well, let me tell you, make sure we understand. I am a Christian professed by faith. Um, however, I do believe in Mother Earth. I believe that God is both male and female, and the reason I believe that is because all life starts as female, and it either becomes a male or it stays a female.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_11:So in that case, if we're created in God's image, which I believe means that we all have a soul, not that we look like God, but we all have a soul, then God must have created us as both, but he created us, he separated us to procreate.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_11:Because he had to do that. So this the whole concept of the separation of uh belief in Mother Earth and the belief in Christianity, I I just I don't I don't get it. I I'm not saying that there aren't differences, but you know what? There's difference between us, us and Catholics too.
SPEAKER_02:True. Big differences. There's some big differences there. Big difference. Virgin Mary, yes.
SPEAKER_11:I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that, should I?
SPEAKER_02:I was raised Southern Baptist, I've been down that path before. So I know where you are again, accent.
SPEAKER_11:Right, right. We do have that, don't we?
SPEAKER_02:We do, don't we? Southern. I am very proud of my accent at this point.
SPEAKER_11:I am too. I pull it out every once in a while when I need to.
SPEAKER_02:Especially when I'm up north.
SPEAKER_11:Everybody looks at you going, they're they're looking I did it one time when I was in London traveling.
SPEAKER_02:Oh god.
SPEAKER_11:And uh my um my cab driver was like, Are you are you from America? I said, Yes, I am. What part? He said, I I said Southeast. She said, like John Wayne type of talk. Did you talk like that? And then I started and he was like, Oh my god, can I record you?
SPEAKER_02:I I got a job up in Maryland, and like I walked into my first restaurant up there, and I looked at him and said, What fixings come with that? And the woman looking at me going, What are you talking?
SPEAKER_11:I when I was in New Jersey, I went in a store and asked for a buggy. And they said, Huh? I said, You know, a buggy that you push around, put a buggy. Oh, you mean a cart? I said, Well, yeah, I guess you can call it that, but it's a buggy. Do you have any?
SPEAKER_02:But you know, you think there's small differences like that in real world that we find funny, but when we look at religion, not understanding some of these words sometimes can cause a whole lot of problem.
SPEAKER_11:You know what? And a lack of being willing to even understand and learn. Um when I think of paganism, and what I I invited a great many people. We were at an upstate Renaissance fair recently here in um, it was in Gringle.
SPEAKER_04:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_11:And everybody I met, I'm like, hey, do you know about the pagan festival? Like, pagan. I said, wait a minute. Not not the horns and tails and stuff. I said, this is a connection to Mother Earth. I invited everybody that I talked to to this event because you know, we're really good friends with Clint Ken Clarkey. My husband's been with uh the festival as a medic since 2012. So we've been here a long time.
SPEAKER_05:Oh God.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't realize it had been him this whole entire time.
SPEAKER_11:It's been him this whole entire time.
SPEAKER_02:Because we've been coming off and on over the years.
SPEAKER_11:Well, I'm glad y'all are here today.
SPEAKER_02:I am glad we are here too.
SPEAKER_11:You see my book I just got? Soul Lessons and Soul Purpose. And you know what? There's a whole lot in here that can be leaked straight to Jesus Christ. I went on Amazon to look it up to see how much it cost. About 15, 14, 15 bucks. Use six, so I went and bought it. And I'm gonna read it. Now and I read my Bible now. Let's get it right. All right, but at the stop at the same time, I I believe that there is uh there's room for love in other places as well. Okay. But I I am I am a professed Christian of faith.
SPEAKER_02:So it was so nice to meet you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_11:Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate your opportunity to to speak with you.
SPEAKER_02:Um I can't wait for people to hear what you got to say.
SPEAKER_11:I hope they like it too. Hi, welcome.
SPEAKER_08:Hello!
SPEAKER_02:Can you introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_08:So my name is Angelica Herendale, and I own uh Morningstar Healing and Magic.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. And what else?
SPEAKER_08:Um, you know. Um, so we do a lot of deity work, central work. Uh so the newest item is kind of the um mini travel altars for different deities. Uh, and it has custom artwork that I made and custom prayers. And it has a small little chaplet in there, a couple herbs, and then um a tea light. And so you can travel with it and it's fun.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, so mainly you just own a shop and you're up here doing your shop, right?
SPEAKER_08:Yes, I also do readings, um, but I do them because I'm not from around here. I'm uh based in Charlotte, uh in North Carolina. Oh, perfect! See? We're in Concord. I I only say Charlotte because most people are like the Concord. You know the Concord, I love that. Um so I go to the Bag Lady and I read there every third Sunday. Um and I do tarot and then whatever comes through with spirit, but yeah, so I have a couple different traditions, but I try to follow Which one?
SPEAKER_02:What is your main tradition that you follow?
SPEAKER_08:I don't have a main one. I I do work with a lot of different deities and spirits. Um so I work with infernals, I work with Greek deities, I work with Santa Morte, like it's just a kind of a modge of all of them. So um, yeah, they kind of direct me and kind of where I need to go. So I work with Lucifer, uh, and his light has been very bright in my life, and when I was rebranding from um, I used to it used to be named Angel Dream Creations when I was rebranding, I made sure that my logo had um Lucifer, Hekate, and Loki in it, um, and they were represented. And then when I was thinking of a name, I wanted healing to be in there because I always aim for people to feel better going out of a terror meeting than coming in. And I'm also a Reiki practitioner, so I like to make sure that everyone's you know all good and being able to hold the space for them. Uh so when I was looking for the name, that's when he was like, you should use Morningstar, and I'm like, okay. Because I like to be that that light for people.
SPEAKER_02:So now with working with Morningstar, I guess we need to go through the whole entire thing. Can you please give all the disclaimers and so when you were So you know what I'm saying? That we're not talking about the people that everybody thinks we're not here. Yeah, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_08:So Lucifer Morningstar is not um, he is an infernal. It is not based in the Christian pantheon, if you call it a pantheon, uh Christian realm. But uh if you want to work with infernals, you have to be careful when approaching them. Um you have to know what you're getting into. And a lot of it is experience-based type work because there's not a lot of books, like how-to books out there, even though I wish there was. So it's a lot of learning, a lot of learning through like trial and error and just being kind of open to learning those lessons. So if you're not open to learning lessons, then you probably shouldn't work with infernals right away. Um, I didn't start working with infernals until probably within the past year. What brought you to working with the fam more than um, so I got a reading with um, I'm calling her my business partner today because uh we bend together. Um, and this was like way before like we were friends, and I got a reading from her, and she's like, hey, you know, Lucifer's coming in, like he wants to work with you. Um apparently he's like ancestral for me. And I was like, Oh, okay. I know nothing about that, but like I'm open to you know, seeing, and um that's when I kind of just I was like, sure, why not? So um that's kind of my first one was Hecate, and then just kind of slowly they've gone in and out, depending on um, because I worked with Persephone at one point. So it just I mean, with when you're doing deity work, it's not all of them are going to be permanent, like all the time.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, I mean they're gonna change as you change and you grow up and yes, yes.
SPEAKER_08:And I mean they're there definitely there to teach you lessons. I mean, there's um even working with like Santa Muerte, like she she is a saint for everybody, but again, you need to know like what you're getting into with her. She is not one that you can just be it's not when you should be like, oh my god, I'm just gonna work with her today. No, you need to make sure you know what you're getting into so that you are not breaking any promises that you make to them.
SPEAKER_03:It's about a relationship, yes.
SPEAKER_08:Yes. Um they are not transactional, I do not believe especially her, but they are not transactional deities. It is building that relationship of um understanding them and having them understand you as well, because it's that back and forth. So um so in a typical instance, uh like with the more well-known pantheons like Greek, um Celtic, uh Norse, like those ones, there's a lot of books out there. Norse you have to be careful because there are white supremacists in that, so be careful. Um but research, research, research, and research more. Like research. Uh more so just because you want to know kind of what drives them and what drives you to work with them. So, like with Hekate, she is definitely that torch that guides me through like darker times. Loki is my chaos manager.
SPEAKER_03:I think he accepts the title.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah, he he definitely helps kind of like when chaotic things come my way. Like, you know, I used to not be able to handle those changes so quickly, and now like when the change comes, I'm like, alright, what's next? Um, but definitely just being open to like sitting with them and understanding I I definitely think understanding what drives them the most is the biggest thing. Um and just being able to have that time uh like set aside to uh have a candle at their altar and even if you can't have an altar or like a candle, uh, because you don't need the stuff, you just need them and your well, you just need you and your relationship to them. Um but if you can have a candle, then it's great to give them light. Um but yeah, it's it's really just I mean, it's how you build a relationship with a person, right? So it's just sitting there and learn and think.
SPEAKER_03:Do you have an actual shop in California?
SPEAKER_09:Oh yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_08:Uh so I don't have a physical shop, but I have a Ko-Fi, which is it's Morningstar Healing and Magic under the Ko-Fi. Um, and then I am at the Bag Lady every third Sunday from most of the time one to five reading tarot. So, um yeah, those are the two places and at festivals randomly. So the next one that we're gonna have is the witch's bazaar in Salisbury. Um, and then there's one at Traust Brewery in November, I believe. So, yeah. I'm around. Well, we look forward to it. Yes, thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. Hi, um, my name is Jocelyn. Um, I'm the co-founder of Upstate Ethereal Explorers. Um, I live in Greer, but our group is based in Greenville, South Carolina. Okay.
SPEAKER_13:Yeah. All right, well, tell me more about your group.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so uh the Upstate Ethereals are basically a non-dogmatic um kind of social group. Uh, we like to put on social events to help people expand their spirituality while also building community and giving them that space um from deconstruction of uh suppressive organized religious structures to finding what works for them and kind of expanding from that. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What do you do we what kind of activities do y'all do?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we um we host events like we have our our main event is called Tarot Tuesday, right um, where we go to Southernside Brewing um in Greenville, South Carolina, and people of all experience levels of tarot come. Um we even get people who have never done tarot before or don't even know what tarot is, but they're just interested. And we always love those curious explorers. And I mean that's that's in our name, explorers. We want people who are seeking, we want people who are always curious and always wanting to know more. Um and so we like bridging the gaps of people who don't know anything about this kind of stuff, meeting people who have been in practice for 20, 30 years.
SPEAKER_02:So y'all have some workshops too?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, um, so we occasionally do workshops. Um, one of the most recent ones we did is a um ritual and modern life uh workshop where it's kind of helping people understand that in the busy hustle-bustle of late-stage capitalism, um they can do ritual, even if it's the mundane, even if it's brushing your teeth and you know, having the intention of I'm going to communicate clearly and properly and with full authenticity today. That's ritual. You know, ritual you can have planned out, intensive, thorough ritual, but it can also just be the mundane. There can be magical in the mundane throughout your daily life, and that's just kind of what that ritual is about. But yeah.
SPEAKER_13:So let me ask you, what inspired you to start such a group? Oh my gosh. Yeah. So Where did this come from? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I'm originally from Charlotte, North Carolina, and um there was a little social event there where we lived, my wife and I, she's the other co-founder, um, Rin. And um, it was also called Tarot Tuesday, and it was just kind of a little gathering of pagans in Charlotte. Um, and we really enjoyed it. We found community there, and we found people that we really resonate with. Um we moved to Greer, South Carolina, um, almost two years ago, and there wasn't anything like that here. We kind of missed our weekly gathering of just people that are kindred spirits, people who practice the same thing that we do. And so why not make it ourselves? You know?
SPEAKER_02:Let's ask that question. What do y'all practice? What do you what do you believe in? I assume your group don't really believe it. Yes, of course. Everybody's a little different.
SPEAKER_00:What do you believe in? So, my personal I I fall under many different labels. I am a witch, I am a Celtic pagan, um, I'm a sp I'm a spiritualist. I mean, I I that's the thing I love about my group is that there's so many different kinds of practices in our sphere that a lot of things resonate. You know, the more you expose yourself to, the more you think, oh, I resonate with that. I I like that practice. I want to adopt a little bit of that into my life. And I don't think there's I I just I can't call myself one thing, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Well what what kind of faith do you follow?
SPEAKER_00:I mean Oh, absolutely. I think that it's hard to pick one. I mean, I I I worship um the Morgan as as as my deity. And I also follow a lot of Celtic paganism, and at the same time, I have just different spiritual beliefs about reincarnation. Um I believe in multiple lives, I believe in different forms of the afterlife, and I think that I find resonance with a lot of different religions, and so I can't just call myself one thing. I think that you can take bits and pieces of many different religions and say no one is completely incorrect.
SPEAKER_02:Nobody's completely right either.
SPEAKER_00:That's correct, yeah. And that's why I can't call myself one thing, you know? Yeah, yeah. But and it's that kind of exploration that I found myself in my own practice that is part of the reason we tell everyone to just keep exploring. We're never done learning, you know?
SPEAKER_13:No, we're never, we never are. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_02:We've we've heard this throughout this same theme throughout the day. Everybody can believe different stuff and still get along. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:I think that one of the things that's been most powerful about our group and what I have enjoyed the most is seeing people of different generations also come together. I've seen a lot of people that are still in college, you know, and are just finding their footing in their own spirituality, meeting with people who are in their 50s and 60s, and they're friends, and they can talk about similar things because of spirituality, even though they're complete from completely different worlds.
SPEAKER_02:It also helps when you know the younger people realize this older people were just as confused as they are at some point. Absolutely, yeah. And you don't get that by not talking about it. No, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and that's the thing, like, there's so much to learn from. I mean, like, there's so much to learn from the older generations, and the older generations can learn from the younger generations, and it just makes me just so thrilled to see people coming together from different backgrounds and different creeds and different practices, and even if something doesn't resonate for someone else, just the knowledge of oh, that's a really interesting practice that I've never heard of, you know?
SPEAKER_02:I I can understand that there's a lot of them out there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, reverence and respect. That's what we're all about.
SPEAKER_02:But how can anybody find your group or information on your group?
SPEAKER_00:So uh we're primarily on Facebook at uh upstate ethereals. Uh That's our handle. Um, you can also find us on Linktree uh at Linktree uh forward slash Upstate Ethereals. And yeah, you can also find us on Instagram, TikTok, um, and we're also building a website right now, and that's gonna be upstateethereals.com. Okay, great. Yeah, nice to meet you. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, well let's start off by introducing yourself.
SPEAKER_09:Um, well, my name is Jennifer. Um, like like was stated, I'm my husband and I started two crafty ravens about eight years ago, just because we wanted something a little extra, a little fun to do.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_09:Um, you know, side hustle, make a little extra money. And we've been doing it for eight years now. So we're doing something right.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_09:Pretty much everybody in the community knows us.
SPEAKER_04:Alright.
SPEAKER_09:Um and it's been a lot of fun. No, a lot of trial and error with things, but I think we've kind of gotten it down to like we can unload quickly, set up, get done.
SPEAKER_02:We can dance with science.
SPEAKER_09:Oh, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Now, knowing all of this, you happen to have seen a problem in the community, you think? Well, we are I don't want to say a problem, but an issue that should be addressed.
SPEAKER_09:Yes, definitely. Um being part practitioners of the Norse path, um, one of the things that we notice is that a lot of white supremacists, uh racists, they like to use symbols that they just take from other places, as we've seen through history. Um and more recently, people going around carrying Nazi flags right next to rune flags, and you know, claiming to be Viking and all this other stuff, and how it's you can't be Viking if you're not white.
SPEAKER_02:And it's very difficult to be pagan and use certain symbols without any backlash.
SPEAKER_09:Exactly. There's like a whole list of them.
SPEAKER_02:So all right, in which again, I think the symbols need to be redeemed back to what they were.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, we need them back. They're they're not they're not to be used for hate. I don't know which other don't.
SPEAKER_02:So but you started this program. So tell me about this program.
SPEAKER_09:What what is I wouldn't say necessarily it's a program so much as just we we saw this and we were just like, you know what? I saw on Facebook Thor hates racists.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_09:And I reached out to them and I asked if I could use their symbolism when we were vending because our community, we wanted to make sure that in the Norse community at least, it was very apparent that we did not support that. We would not accept racists, we would not that were intolerant of intolerance. Right. So and they said, yeah, absolutely. So if you see our booth, you'll see a poster in the back that says Freya hates racists. It was their design there, and I used it with their permission, and bottom it even says used by permission. Um, and from that it just kind of spiraled into I started seeing things like you know, none no Nazis in Valhalla, and I'm like, oh, I can make a sticker for that. I'm a graphic designer by trade.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_09:Um and I did, uh Freya hates racists, I turned that into a bumper sticker. And the no Nazis in Valhalla, he's called the all father, not the some father. Um, and people really, really like the bumper stickers, but being where we are, a lot of people were a little hesitant to put a big, huge bumper sticker like that on their car. So I started making little two-inch round stickers that we just give out when we're vending, um, of all of those, just to say we we feel very strongly about the message and we want it everywhere.
SPEAKER_02:Has anybody started to ask for bigger stickers yet?
SPEAKER_09:Um no, actually, more recently we've been selling more of the bumper stickers. And which is a little surprising considering how everything has been lately. I would think people would be a little more hesitant, but people are more vocal about it, and I'm just like, I'm all for it. Go for it. Great. Yeah. Um, and I'm just I run out of the little giveaway stickers. We did Renfair a couple weeks ago, and we literally ran out of all of them.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm assuming the overall response to the campaign. I guess I guess that's the campaign y'all we're doing is has actually been received positive.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, people absolutely love it. People love the idea. They come in, they tell us, I'm so glad that you do this. You know, I'm glad that there's people that say this that are standing up for this.
SPEAKER_02:Um Have you heard from the opposite of the I gotta I'm sorry, I do have to ask the question because as Monday next one is have you had any backlash or well we have a three by five, three by five, two by six, a very large um pride flag hanging in the back of our booth.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_09:So we haven't really had people walk in that aren't open-minded, that aren't going to be accepting of what we're saying. We make it very apparent that if you are that type of a person, you will not feel comfortable in here because we won't allow racists and things like that.
SPEAKER_02:Now, again, in that situation, and again, situations like this, no, I don't expect that here.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Online, have you seen any backlash to some of the things you're promoting on this?
SPEAKER_09:No, and our Facebook page, we do have a lot of things posted about, you know, very strongly with all of this, you know, anti-hate, um, and have never had any kind of a backlash on that.
SPEAKER_02:Not one of them, sure, but thankfully.
SPEAKER_09:Um, but I mean we're not, you know, nationally broadcast anywhere, so it's not we're probably not on a lot of people's radar.
SPEAKER_02:So now yeah, yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_09:But hopefully hopefully it'll make pe just get people to understand that it's just we don't tolerate hate.
SPEAKER_02:What what what would you like people to get from your message mainly? Uh most of all.
SPEAKER_09:Most of all is that first and foremost, pagans are different, but I've always thought the idea that there are many paths to the top of the mountain.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_09:No one path is right, no one path is wrong. Just get to the top of the mountain however you feel comfortable. But for us specifically, with the Norse path, it's we will not allow people to co-opt it for hate.
SPEAKER_02:I I completely agree with you there. You know, that's that's a little bit different for me.
SPEAKER_09:So well, thank you so much. I really appreciate um giving this, given being given this opportunity. I appreciate it very much.
SPEAKER_02:I hope the message gets out there and more people will help and pick it up. Definitely continue on. It would be nice to know that halfway across the country someone's doing the same thing now.
SPEAKER_09:And not just in the city. I pull up, someone pulls up next to me next uh at a stoplight, and they're like, hey, two crafty ravens, because we have it on the back of our vehicles, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So how can people get in touch with you or um check out your products?
SPEAKER_09:We are on Facebook. Our Facebook page is the number two, Crafty Ravens. Um we do also have a website that's two spelled out, TWO, Crafty Ravens. Um, it's kind of under construction, so it may or may not be updated, but Facebook is always updated with um events that we're doing, thoughts that we have, things like that.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Well, I hope you get some followers off of this.
SPEAKER_09:Thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at life temple seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.
SPEAKER_07:We travel down this trodden path, a maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a sea of blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our days, so walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our days, so walk with me till morning breaks.
