Guard The Core, Bend The Edges

Traditions don’t just happen; they accumulate meaning across time. Our conversation centers on the why. When someone suggests a change—like swapping a time‑honored incense blend—we ask for purpose, not permission. If the new choice better expresses the symbol or season, it belongs. If there’s no clear reason, it’s just noise. That lens helps us separate flexible edges from non‑negotiable cores. Initiations and death rites sit in a different category altogether: they carry shared mysteries and must remain consistent to preserve continuity and communal trust.

We also talk about polarity, the mirrored dualities many rites enact, and how each repeated gesture reminds us of the beliefs beneath it. Knowing the why builds conviction without turning brittle; it tempers strength with adaptability. Change is inevitable—history shows every major tradition evolves—but drift is optional when communities steward their practices with clarity. If future generations revisit these rites, we want them to find a steady core and thoughtful updates at the edges, not a hollow shell. Listen for a practical framework to evaluate change, keep your center, and evolve with integrity. If this conversation resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to help others find us.

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Chapters

• 0:15 Defining Tradition Versus Routine
• 1:34 Timing And Meaning In Traditions
• 2:08 How Traditions Change
• 3:48 Protecting Core Beliefs
• 5:11 The Why Behind Ritual Practice
• 7:36 Personalization In Weddings
• 8:53 Fixed Rites And Shared Mysteries
• 10:08 Pillars, Polarity, And Adaptation
• 12:18 Traditions Across Religions Evolve
• 14:52 Closing And Community Links

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

Welcome to Peggy and Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.

SPEAKER_03: 0:25

What would you call a tradition?

SPEAKER_02: 0:28

Um well, I mean, t tradition to me is um you know it's something that you do all the time. It is uh it's handed down, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 0:43

I mean well, I we well you said it that way, so what? Daily, monthly, yearly.

SPEAKER_02: 0:49

Um well, I mean, you know, it could be any of those. I think I think more I think more along the lines of oh Lord, well, look at it a couple of different ways. One is like a tradition, it's something that you do every year. So think Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, typical things that you do around those times.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13

I I guess I can see where there could be some traditions of things you know you do every morning.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19

I I don't know if it would be more routine, but Well, I think I think if it's daily, then yeah, it's more of a routine. Alright.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30

What about monthly?

SPEAKER_02: 1:32

Monthly, yeah, I could kind of see that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:34

Well, I mean, again, in in our tradition, we meet once a month at the full moon, so you know, that's our traditional time to meet and worship and right. Yeah, so I think so there is a little bit uh there is something a little bit about timing there. Traditions are something sort of spread out.

SPEAKER_02: 1:57

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:59

More than something you would do every day.

SPEAKER_02: 2:02

Again, I think daily is more of a routine than a tradition type thing.

SPEAKER_03: 2:08

All right. Um, what about changing traditions?

SPEAKER_02: 2:12

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03: 2:14

Well I mean again, again, example here, you know, where you you read the night before Christmas every year. I mean, at what point do you quit watching or reading it and start listening to an audiobook of it or uh or a you know a play or a or a TV show or a video?

SPEAKER_02: 2:36

Oh that I you know, that I don't know. I think that depends on um the the family or the group, you know, that's that's doing that. Maybe it's you and your friends get together and read the story. Maybe I'll decide, okay, well, we can't really do this this time, so we're just gonna agree to listen to the book, you know, or the poem or whatever. That's a tough question.

SPEAKER_03: 3:04

I mean, I mean, and how much does a tradition change to where it's no longer the original tradition to begin with?

SPEAKER_02: 3:12

Well, I think as long as as long as the core belief is there, then uh see, I don't know if I can really say that or not.

SPEAKER_03: 3:25

Because again, I because cause you know my next because you know my next question is how do you how do we identify that core?

SPEAKER_02: 3:31

Right. The core belief is is what's there, it's what we've founded everything on, it's what we've based everything on. And if you go and change that, then you've changed everything, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03: 3:46

You know, but at what point is that? I mean, again, like I said, we are we we believe in our tradition that it takes a witch to make a witch, so we believe in initiation. When we don't frown upon self-initiation or whatever, we just it's there, whatever. Right. But when I pass away and someone takes my place, if that priest goes, Oh, well, you know, I don't think this is as important as Knight thought it was, so we're not gonna worry about this anymore. Is that changing our course?

SPEAKER_02: 4:19

Is that Yeah. Yeah, it is. Um and again, I I may be a little on the old-fashioned side of things. I don't um I don't think you can change that part of what we do.

SPEAKER_03: 4:33

But yeah, you wouldn't have a problem if somebody goes, oh, here I got this different incense for this Sabbath. I know we'd typically use this. Can we try this? You probably wouldn't think twice about that, would you?

SPEAKER_02: 4:45

No. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_03: 4:48

So what what where's the difference? I mean, again, it we traditionally use, okay, for for the sake of argument, okay, let's say at a particular grand, pick one, we always use frankincense myrrh and sandalwood.

SPEAKER_02: 5:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 5:04

And then somebody comes up one day and goes, hey, let's try this blend instead. Well, I mean I know you I know you've been coming here and you've for 20-something years, and we've done this for 20-something years, but I want to do something different.

SPEAKER_02: 5:19

If we if we have a reason for using those herbs as part of that incense, then I think they're gonna have to make an argument about it and give me, you know, say I'm the elder, they would have to give me a reason to make that change.

SPEAKER_03: 5:37

So as long as there's a why, right? If I'm saying that right, if you so you believe as long as there's a why behind it, we should keep it.

SPEAKER_02: 5:46

Well, yes and no. I think if we can't explain the why, then we need to figure out we need to figure that out. Except for what?

SPEAKER_03: 5:59

Or or except for interpretation.

SPEAKER_02: 6:02

Right. Yeah, if it's that way, then yeah, we need to make we need to make some changes, we need to uh make some considerations and figure out the why. But now if somebody, say like with the incense, if somebody comes up and says, Hey, I want to try this particular blend of incense, tell me why. And if it fits, then hey, okay, well, now we've got another option for incense for the Sabbath. You following me?

SPEAKER_03: 6:34

I I'm with you. I know I'm with you. And I think that's I mean, because again, because I'd also have to ask the question, you know, like there are certain rituals that we do, you know, like um weddings and stuff like that, but a lot of people want their weddings more personalized now versus a more traditional way of doing it. So again, sitting there and write going through the trouble of writing out the traditional wedding thing is not necessarily good. You know what I mean? Because again, somebody's gonna come along and go, Well, you know, it is my wedding, so are my hand found are you are you with me? Yeah. Versus somebody coming along and changing our death rights.

SPEAKER_02: 7:18

All right, well I mean again, these are still significant things, but I think as far as like the death rights go, that to me, that is a specific thing that we do. Right. If we are going to change any part of that, then I think it needs to be a decision among the members.

SPEAKER_03: 7:44

Right. Well, see, the because for like an example, our initiations, we all get it's the exact same ritual for all of us. It does not suddenly just change because there's somebody there. Right. I mean, certain aspects might change, but not the ritual itself. Right. You ready? I mean, you with me because there's sometimes men do things if it's a woman initiation versus a male in it. Again, that's all polarities and stuff like that. Right. Other than those things, yes, everybody gets the same initiation. Right. And it's something we will all sit there and go, no, no, this can never change or anything because it brings on this experience that we cannot explain.

SPEAKER_02: 8:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03: 8:31

All right, it reveals a mystery that you will never be able to tell anyone or describe whatsoever. And we would all agree to that. But again, I'm back to the wedding, though, we're like, oh, what's the harm? I mean, and how much of that needs to be in there? Do we still need to do O's? Do we not?

SPEAKER_02: 8:53

Is it just Well, I think as far as that goes, we can, and we have every right to do this, we can sit back and say, all right, there are you want this wedding, these are the elements that we do.

SPEAKER_03: 9:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 9:10

The rest of it we can customize to you. But these elements will be included, and I think I think that is that's more of the traditional part. But then, you know, but then we can also we could just do the opposite and we could say, okay, well, we can just customize this whole thing for you, right?

SPEAKER_03: 9:35

You know, I just think it's funny how certain rituals we would automatically go, no, you can't, but other rituals were kind of a little bit more, eh, whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 9:44

When it does seem like it, we would want it to be the same, but well, again, I want to go you can customize the majority of it if you want to, but then you can literally say, Well, these are the elements that we do as a tradition. So if you want this done and you're part of our tradition, this is this is the way it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_03: 10:05

Right. Well, let's get back to this concept why. All right, because it I mean it is quite important to us to understand why we do this stuff the way we do it and not just and to never do it just because we were told so.

SPEAKER_02: 10:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 10:20

That this is the big concept actually in craft and other people I know. We have to know why. If we don't have that why, we can we we oftentimes do consider it frivolous or not really worth debating or whatever. And we can use it as a throwaway thing. Do you think it's harder? When you know why, do you think it's harder to give up those beliefs? Unlike someone who doesn't understand it, it's easy for them to change their beliefs at a drop of a hat.

SPEAKER_02: 10:50

I I think that plays an important part of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 10:53

I mean, because I'm saying I don't yeah, I don't know if I said that enough to not confuse people.

SPEAKER_02: 10:58

Well, the why is it's the reason for the particular belief or the particular practice. I mean, it's the definition of that practice. Right. And once you've finded it solidifies it, and and that's where for people who know the whys, it's not that they're not accepting to change, but they have they have a firmer foundation in what they believe.

SPEAKER_03: 11:27

Well, every time you do this, regardless of what it is, what every time you do this specific task or action, it reminds you of why you're doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 11:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 11:40

They're continuously always re-linked to each other, so they're always reinforced to that this is a belief. I'm doing this, you know, I hold my athem up this way because of XYZ.

SPEAKER_02: 11:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 11:54

Because I've been trained to do that, that that doing that action always reinforces the why behind it, which I think reinforces the belief in that too.

SPEAKER_02: 12:04

Well, yeah. I mean, that's that's a better explanation of of what I said, you know, that it solidifies that right.

SPEAKER_03: 12:12

I mean, it I was just gonna say it just seems like a discycle that feeds in on itself over and over again.

SPEAKER_02: 12:18

Well, it does. And, you know, for those people who don't have that definition, they don't it's easier to just change things up on a whim because nothing nothing's turned into concrete for them, you know what I mean? Right. And it's not it's not always a bad thing, but uh it's I rather enjoy having that uh having that solid foundation.

SPEAKER_03: 12:43

Well, I I think you need to have some pillars like this in a tradition to hold it together. If if you don't, it moves too far off its foundations. Absolutely. It moves too far away, it starts to move too far away from that core belief of here's what we believe. You know, that the universe is divided up in duality and all this other stuff, and we we have to mimic that too. And for a simple reason, you know, of some of the stuff that we do that not revealing mysteries.

SPEAKER_02: 13:15

We have to be careful.

SPEAKER_03: 13:17

Gotta be careful, you know. But uh, but again, because it is a belief and it is something there, when we look at these things in ritual, when we're doing them in ritual, it reinforces that these polarities exist around us and in us. So it's very important to know the why of why you believe what the world you do believe in. Because it gives you a whole lot more grounded foundation to stand upon. But again, like you said, it's kind of like a sword that's been hardened but not tempered yet. While it might be strong and all this, but it's very brittle and easy to shatter, and it's got to have a little bit of flexibility there.

SPEAKER_02: 14:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 14:01

So you got to tamper it.

SPEAKER_02: 14:03

I I love that analogy. It it speaks to the heart of this conversation. So we have to be adaptable to some extent. Right. Um, and so I think traditions can change, they can they can be altered, you know, to fit the needs.

SPEAKER_03: 14:22

I don't think any religion nowadays is exactly what it was in the beginning. Oh, no. Christianity's changed over the years, Buddha uh Buddhism's changed over the years. No, yeah. I I'm sure it has. I mean, for as long as some of these have been around, you know, I'm sure Judaism is not the exact same as what they used to practice in the old days. So we know these change because we can pretty much see it through timelines and again new um new branches of traditions opening up because people will reject certain things and keep other ideas. So it makes me wonder, you know, hey, if I was able to come back in a hundred years and remember everything I know now, um Will I be sitting there looking, you know, standing in front of, you know, Life Templar and Seminary one day going, what the hell did y'all do?

SPEAKER_02: 15:17

What the what in the hell is this? What the hell is this? This is not what I told you. I mean, it's a it's a possibility. We we know that I mean history has shown us that yes, things change and sometimes drastically over the years, and but I think to some extent they still hold a lot, if not all, of the same core beliefs. It's just the way they do it now, is different.

SPEAKER_03: 15:51

All right. Let's go get some coffee. All right.

SPEAKER_02: 15:56

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Tempelseminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing fires. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning break.