Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk is a modern paganism & witchcraft podcast exploring spiritual practice, community, and clergy experience weekly. Each episode invites listeners into candid, grounded conversations about what it really means to live, practice, and serve within today’s diverse pagan paths. Whether you’re a long‑time practitioner or someone newly curious about earth‑based spirituality, the show offers a welcoming space to learn, question, and grow.
Hosted by experienced pagan clergy, Pagan Coffee Talk blends humor, honesty, and hands‑on wisdom to demystify the realities of practice. The podcast dives into topics such as ritual structure, magical ethics, coven dynamics, and the lived experience of serving a community—always with a focus on accessibility and authenticity. You’ll also hear discussions on the challenges of modern pagan leadership, the evolution of contemporary witchcraft traditions, and how practitioners can build sustainable spiritual habits in everyday life.
Listeners searching for “practical pagan spirituality for beginners” or “real‑world witchcraft guidance from clergy” will find the show especially valuable. Episodes often highlight the difference between pop‑culture witchcraft and grounded, lineage‑informed practice, helping listeners navigate misinformation while strengthening their own spiritual foundations. The hosts also explore seasonal observances, ancestor work, devotional practice, and the importance of community support within pagan traditions.
Pagan Coffee Talk isn’t just a podcast—it’s an ongoing conversation shaped by real questions from real practitioners. By sharing personal stories, hard‑earned lessons, and thoughtful commentary, the hosts aim to foster a sense of connection and clarity for anyone walking a pagan path. Whether you’re brewing your morning coffee or settling in for evening reflection, this podcast offers insight, companionship, and a deeper understanding of modern pagan life.
A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: The Morrigan, & Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Why Faith Alone Doesn’t Make You Part of a Tradition
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Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. So came across a topic.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:Belief is not the same as belonging. Okay. So what exactly does this mean?
Speaker 1:Just because you believe in something doesn't mean you're a part of it. Right. You know, just because you believe in the revolution doesn't mean you're out there actually doing it. Right. You know, or or how it was said back in the 80s, I believe we need a red revolution. I'm just afraid I won't find any good moisturizer afterwards.
Speaker 4:Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1:So yeah, just because you believe in something, I don't think it actually makes you part of that group.
Speaker 4:Okay. Yeah, well, that that was gonna that was gonna be my question to start it off is can you can you actually believe in something like wholeheartedly without belonging to something?
Speaker 1:Well, put it to you this way, I could believe generally in Christianity. I might not believe with all the the local Southern Baptist church up here, right? I might not agree with everything, right? I can go in there, listen, sit down, but I'm not part of them because I don't believe enough to be a part of them.
Speaker 4:Okay, but let me let me try to rephrase the question. If you don't belong to something, is it possible to like truly deeply believe in something? Like a like like if you're not a part of a church, any particular sect of Christianity, uh can you truly, deeply and honestly believe in Christianity? Yes.
Speaker 1:I believe you can believe in it, but it doesn't necessarily make you part of the group.
Speaker 4:Are you are you with what I'm saying? No, no, I get that. I get that. I'm just I was just curious if it was you know, if it was possible to just because, you know, just because you're not part of a group.
Speaker 1:I I think of it like this. I mean, of course, you know, we're pagan. I I can get sitting at church all day on day long. I'm not bursting in the flames or anything like that. I'm not being ran out. Well, true, but then again, we don't truly believe in it. I I don't truly believe in it, but it you know, I don't hate it either, and I don't disagree with some of the stuff that they talk about, right? Right. But it doesn't make me a Christian.
Speaker 4:Well, let's let's relate it more back to um back to pagan. All right. So let's take a very particular sect of paganism that requires group participation, right? Right. So let's look at well, ours doesn't really require group participation, we encourage it. But let's look at like Gardnarian or Alexandrian. Right. Okay, so can you be a solitaire gardenarian?
Speaker 1:Well, I I think you could. You're just not gonna know the mysteries or the details from an act that like you would if you were part of an actual coven. Well, no, I get that, but I mean I that but to me, there's where that guideline is. You're you just don't know those traditional mysteries, you're guessing.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:And if it was me, I'd be honest about it. Hey, look, I practice this belief, but no, I'm not initiated. Right. If we have any problems from this, is going to be that person that goes, Hey, I practice voodoo, and then stops there, but never sits there and goes, I've never actually been formally trained or initiated or anything like this. All my authority comes from me. And if I've misinterpreted something from a book or from what I heard or from TV, well, that's just the way it is.
Speaker 4:So I guess it boils down to you can have the belief, you just can't have the status.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:I I do not know many solitaires that go around going, oh yeah, I'm a first degree solitaire. Huh? True. All right, or I'm a second degree, or you know, I again I I can see where a solitaire might be, hey, look, I'm part of a group and I act as the high priestess. Or I'm the high priest. Right. That I understand. Again, there is a little bit of authority there because there is a group there, and this is slowly wrapped around probably what you believe. But does it make you a gardenarian because you haven't really been trained in that tradition?
Speaker 4:Right. Well, then uh, you know, I'm kind of wondering why do so many people fund this offensive.
Speaker 1:Well, mainly, mainly I think it's because people are are get affronted from because and like our tradition, we require you certain things for you to move on in the game. Keep it, you you gotta you gotta keep up with their our ethics and morals. You have to keep up with what in the world we believe in and stuff like this. If you don't function that way, are you with me? Or you see any of this as a hurdle or something to get over instead of, hey, this is a tool for me to put on my table, you're not gonna do it. And I think that's where the problem is. People think what we're doing is giving people hurdles to go through or hoops to jump through, versus, hey, we're trying to teach you tools. We're trying to teach you responsibility with this stuff. We're trying to teach you when not to put your foot in your mouth. Right. All right. Basically, what we're doing, we're we're trying to teach people okay, we don't want your mouth to write a check here that your ass can't cover. So I'm sorry, sometimes that just takes a little bit of extra training and somebody from the outside going, hey, no, you might want to look at this too. Right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's uh it's not really saying that you can't believe in something if you don't belong to a particular tradition or a particular group. It's just that you're you're not getting the full benefit from it because you don't have the instruction, you don't have the mentorship.
Speaker 1:And you don't have the authority, you don't have anybody that you can go to, hey, is this person? Yes, this person is a first degree, I was there at their initiation. Right. Yes, this person is a second degree. How do I know? I was there at their initiation. I've observed it. Right. And and again, and not not kicking solitaires, but no, not at all. Here's the problem. Hey, you did your initi you did your so-called self-initiation by yourself somewhere. Nobody was there to observe it. Nobody was there to go, hey, yeah, you're ready for this. You understand all the consequences that you're doing to yourself here. It's all the power without any of the responsibility. All right. So you're going around and you're claiming you're a priest or a priestess. People come up to you and sort of asking for your advice. And you ain't got a clue what in the world you're doing. You're giving bad advice out to people. That's causing harm.
Speaker 4:Right, because you haven't you haven't been trained, you haven't been instructed, you don't have the knowledge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't have any philosophy or anything to back up on besides what in the world you read out of a book, and we hope it's right.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:Or at least your translation of what in the world you read.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's even like listen to the podcast. People listen to these podcasts and stuff like that. I'm only responsible for what I say, not what you hear. You you've seen this, you've seen us teaching classes where in class somebody starts to get something or starts to misunderstand one of our concepts. I have time to say, no, this is what we're doing. Here's what we're doing. This is, and I'm correcting it there on the fly. So I'm stopping a problem before it even starts. Right. Here's what the concept says. This is what you need to think of. Here's how in the world keeping your word and not keeping your word affects you physically, mentally, emotionally, and why in the world we think it works.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:Why in the world the curse of the warlock to us is real. And without those understandings, I I'm sorry. You you're you're a guy who read a book and now going, hey, I can operate on hearts.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it don't work that way.
Speaker 1:Or like that commercial was, hey, I slept in this end. Hey, I can take care, I can take care of this plane and fly.
Speaker 4:I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV.
Speaker 1:TV. So therefore, hey, let me come in here and do that. What? I mean, to me, this is the same thing.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right? Am I going to sit there and say, I'll solitary? No, there, I'm sure there are solitaries that are are a whole lot more ethical and stuff like that, and don't give out bad advice. And even some that might even be therapists themselves. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the people that come out and barely have the tiger by the tail, but then they're coming out, ooh, I'm a guru.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. It took me how many years to learn and to absorb what in the world I've absorbed this long? But hey, you went out a week ago and read a book.
Speaker 4:I know, but you know, but even then we can't it's not like we have a council. You know, it's not like we have it's not like we have a um you know a board of witches who monitors everything, and if you step out of line, hey, you're getting a citation.
Speaker 1:But it began sitting here, bringing up awareness so people can pay attention and listen more. Hey, is this person full of shit or not?
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, and I think that comes that comes to uh part in the conversation, you know, be wary of who you're talking to. Yeah. Take everything with a grain of salt. I don't know how many times we've said that. Sometimes it takes a whole salt shaker, sometimes it takes a bag of salt, you know. Um, but you know, uh, just be wary of who you're talking to and who you take advice from. Um, if something, if something feels off with what somebody's telling you or what you're hearing, or what you're seeing, trust it.
Speaker 1:I'm back to the old saying that this this is the time and this is the type of conversation where we need to reinforce speaky little, listen much. People will tell them themselves you listen to them long enough. If they're a bad influence, they're going to at some point go, they're gonna contradict themselves, they're gonna say something else, something else is gonna happen. It will make itself obvious. Yeah, people tattle on themselves all the time the more they talk.
Speaker 4:And that again, that's something we've said time and time before. But it bears repeating, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, it bears repeating. I mean, I'm not saying that these people, I'm not saying these people are coming out here and purposely coming out here doing bad things. No, I'm sure they're coming out here and they're doing these podcasts and they're talking to these people in the communities and stuff. Fully, I I I feel like I'm doing something. I I'm they're they're doing it with the best intentions. But again, the road to hell was filled with best intentions.
Speaker 4:Well, now if if we go back to um belief and being part of a group, like even in our group, you don't necessarily have to believe the same way we do as far as like spirituality goes. No, and we encourage people to follow that on path um as far as that goes. What we uh do want you to do and believe in the same as us is our ethics, our morals, our you know our basic framework. Right. Because why it works, and we know it works, it works for us, right? No, we and and we and we admit it's not gonna work for everybody, but we still encourage it, you know.
Speaker 1:We still encourage it. We we want people to do that, you know. Well, again, I mean that's like us sitting here going, hey, our our classes are free. You know, we do that to relieve a pressure. It's not, hey, I spent this much money and I didn't get my first degree. Well, you weren't ready, but I paid all this money for this class.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, how do I put a price on that class?
Speaker 4:Right. How do you put a price on knowledge?
Speaker 1:Right. And even then, you can come, you can take the whole entire entire first degree class and all that, look at us and go, I don't want to get initiated and walk out the door.
Speaker 4:Yep, that's perfectly fun too.
Speaker 1:Okay, what do you get this way? You get the knowledge of what we'll be told, but you don't have any of our authority behind it.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:None of our you have no recognized authority whatsoever. Anybody goes, hey, is this person no, they're not initiated. Sorry.
Speaker 4:Right. I mean, the only thing that you that you are able to say is that yeah, you took you took a first degree class from us.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:That's all you can say because why you do you chose not to go any further?
Speaker 1:You you chose, not me, not my fault. Sometimes people choose not to get initiated. It does happen.
Speaker 4:Right. But that's also that's also the other part of why why we tell students or prospective students that just because you finish doesn't mean you will be initiated. Right. That goes one of two ways. Either we don't feel like you're spiritually ready, or you decide you're not ready. Right. It works both ways.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So there's a two-way street here, all right? To sit there and to believe in something, again, who are you to stop that? How would you even stop that? I mean, again, if you if you took away all my tools and all this other stuff, I'm still a witch at the end of the day. You know, I I still practice witchcraft, I still follow this path. You're you're not changing what's in my head. You can force me to go to church, it still doesn't change what I actually believe.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:So again, I don't see how in the world we can stop someone from saying, hey, I believe in this. Okay. Well thing I would say about it is let's at least try to be a little bit honest about it. Well, yeah, talking in public.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was gonna say we can we can have a conversation about it. And it's not that we're trying to judge anybody because of their belief. No, let's just let's just talk about it because there's something we see something off, and we're trying to understand.
Speaker 1:Right. Or we see something a little bit in a different way than you, right? So you know, let's have a conversation. No, but I mean the the bad part about all this is you know, you you do you get those individuals that come up and sit there and go, Well, oh, y'all are terrible because y'all believe in X, Y, and Z. Okay. You don't have to.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we never said you had to, and we never, you know, honestly, we didn't ask for your opinion on what we believe.
Speaker 1:Well, we we didn't ask for our I d we're not asking for our beliefs to be inserted into all traditions either. No, absolutely not. There's the problem. We're not asking for representation in a circle we're not involved in. Why should you ask us to do the same?
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:Again, this is it's not disrespect, it's not anything like that. Is the priests and priestess we put out are trained. They should know what in the world they're doing. They should. They should have a good grasp on what's going on. They should be able to help you without harming and in the process, teach you, help you to grow as a person versus cleaning up your mess for you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and all all I was gonna say is if they don't, then I don't know, that's not necessarily our fault. I mean, we have we have to claim some responsibility because we taught them. But yeah, it again, that's a two-way street as well. We have, you know, we have to hold the other person responsible because they didn't fucking learn.
Speaker 1:Well, again, if you're gonna be counting, well, first of all, if you're gonna be counseling anybody, you're gonna be second degree, and trust me, you're gonna go through enough counseling training, you're gonna be like, I if I hear this one more time, I'm gonna die. So again, you're trained. You we've beat this into your head repeatedly on how in the world you counsel and what to do and how to avoid and try your best to avoid certain pitfalls.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:I can't sit there and say we're we avoid everything.
Speaker 4:No, there's always some risk.
Speaker 1:There's always some risk.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's the there's the difference becoming from a group versus not a group. True. And especially a traditional group, because you're going to be trained to function as a priest or a priestess before you are trained to be a witch.
Speaker 4:Well, it's that it's that mentorship that I spoke of earlier. It's yeah, when you have a mentor, mentors go beyond just teaching from a book or reading what's on a page to a student. Mentorship is actual advice, it's instruction on how to do things.
Speaker 1:You know, it it's me passing my experience or my wisdom on to someone else. Right. Here's what happens when I did A and B and I got this. Don't do this. This is why.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, again, uh learn from my failures and move on.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you won't make them and make different ones and learn something else in the process.
Speaker 4:And you'll be able to pass that along to whoever you teach. Right.
Speaker 1:So again, that by the time you've done all this and I reincarnate, hey, I got a better system to walk into. There you go. With more wisdom behind it.
Speaker 4:Exactly. Which is the hope, you know. That's the hope. That's the goal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's to continually make better people, you know. Right. Or help or help, yeah, and help people make better choices, exactly.
Speaker 1:This is your spirituality. Where do you want to take it? Where do you want to go? What makes you a what makes you want to be a better person? All right. That's supposed to, from my understanding and my belief, that's what religion's supposed to do. Now, what you consider a better person is up for interpretation.
Speaker 4:That's, you know, that's that's one of those ideas and concepts. It's again, yeah, you're right. It's up for interpretation.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean, I our thought is hey, uh, the the the higher up they go, the more responsibility and ethics and stuff you have to put. With and the restraints seem a little bit more confining versus when I was in first degree. So that's just the way we do stuff.
Speaker 4:Right. Well, and the hope is that those responsibilities will make you realize what it is you need to do to make yourself better.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:That's I mean, it's a continual improvement. It always is. You never, if you've become stagnant in in making yourself a quote unquote better person, then something's wrong.
Speaker 1:There's always improvements we can make. Trust me. I've been making improvements for 55 years.
Speaker 4:Right. There's always improvements. There's always some something you didn't know, some new knowledge, some new wisdom. I don't think that list has gotten any shorter for me. No, I don't believe it has. It just seems like it gets longer.
Speaker 1:Longer and longer. I got more stuff to work on.
Speaker 4:So, but yeah, just know that we're not trying to judge anybody. And I don't think anybody else should either. Um, that's definitely not something that I encourage in my day-to-day conversations with people.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker 4:Just because somebody believes differently than you, that's that's not a right to judge anybody.
Speaker 1:I I I do see there's a difference between believing in something and being part of a group. Oh, absolutely. All right, because being a part of a group means you're trying to control your behavior to the way all these other people do. Well, yes. To some extent in your belief.
Speaker 4:I was gonna say, but it's not about full on conformity. I it's a little weird. Well, it's something else that you know, it's a balancing act, and there's that balance again.
Speaker 1:You can't get away from it.
Speaker 4:It's it is, but it is it's a balancing act, it's um it's coming into a group mind, but still having your own autonomy.
Speaker 1:Right. I mean, if I'm I'm sorry, if you see a group of people, and every time you see them, they're growing and becoming more spiritual and seem to have more knowledge and wisdom. Maybe something's going on there that could help you.
Speaker 5:Right.
Speaker 1:Maybe you should quit looking at these things as that were asked that traditionalists asked from you as less of hurdles and more of steps or tools to help you get to where the world we are.
Speaker 4:Well, and then too, I mean, you know, if you're a gamer, you can look at it as a challenge, you know. Somebody somebody's giving you uh a hurdle that you have to figure out how to get over.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:Um, but for most people, don't look at it that way because that's just that's too negative for a lot of people. And that's not what we that's not the goal here.
Speaker 1:No. So the goal here is to educate and try to inspire, not compress, apartmentalize, box in or bind people.
Speaker 4:Right. The important thing is that these this is a positive thing that we're trying to get you to achieve. Yes. And you should look at it in a positive light.
Speaker 1:You know, uh struggle, struggle helps. You know, I put it to you this way, but it's kind of like lifting weights. No pain, no gain. There's a reason that's thing. There's a reason for that. Right. All right, for you to actually grow, for you to actually change. There there has to be some friction. You have to strive and fight and work your way through things.
Speaker 4:It don't just does it suck sometimes? Yeah, I know, but does it suck sometimes? Yes, it does. Oh god, yes. It sucks all the time when you're talking about some of the times.
Speaker:All right, well, let's get some coffee. Let's get some coffee. Hey, like, share, subscribe. There you go, yep. Uh-uh.
Speaker 1:Give give uh give a uh give a thumbs up, yep, give a review.
Speaker 4:Send us a message. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at life templeseminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media: Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.
Speaker 2:We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing fires. And so it is the end of our days, to walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning break, morning.
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