Pagan Coffee Talk
Pagan Coffee Talk is a modern paganism & witchcraft podcast exploring spiritual practice, community, and clergy experience weekly. Each episode invites listeners into candid, grounded conversations about what it really means to live, practice, and serve within today’s diverse pagan paths. Whether you’re a long‑time practitioner or someone newly curious about earth‑based spirituality, the show offers a welcoming space to learn, question, and grow.
Hosted by experienced pagan clergy, Pagan Coffee Talk blends humor, honesty, and hands‑on wisdom to demystify the realities of practice. The podcast dives into topics such as ritual structure, magical ethics, coven dynamics, and the lived experience of serving a community—always with a focus on accessibility and authenticity. You’ll also hear discussions on the challenges of modern pagan leadership, the evolution of contemporary witchcraft traditions, and how practitioners can build sustainable spiritual habits in everyday life.
Listeners searching for “practical pagan spirituality for beginners” or “real‑world witchcraft guidance from clergy” will find the show especially valuable. Episodes often highlight the difference between pop‑culture witchcraft and grounded, lineage‑informed practice, helping listeners navigate misinformation while strengthening their own spiritual foundations. The hosts also explore seasonal observances, ancestor work, devotional practice, and the importance of community support within pagan traditions.
Pagan Coffee Talk isn’t just a podcast—it’s an ongoing conversation shaped by real questions from real practitioners. By sharing personal stories, hard‑earned lessons, and thoughtful commentary, the hosts aim to foster a sense of connection and clarity for anyone walking a pagan path. Whether you’re brewing your morning coffee or settling in for evening reflection, this podcast offers insight, companionship, and a deeper understanding of modern pagan life.
A special thanks to Darkest Era for the use of their songs: The Morrigan, & Poem to the Gael. Check them out at http://darkestera.net/.
Pagan Coffee Talk
Does Consciousness Create Reality? The Limits of Magic, Manifestation, and Natural Law
Can consciousness reshape the world—or only how we perceive it?
This episode takes a clear‑eyed look at belief, magic, and physics to separate perception from matter and pinpoint where real change actually occurs. Using a simple bonsai metaphor, we move through stage hypnosis, glamours, and the placebo effect to show how willpower can bend experience without breaking nature’s rules. The result is a grounded framework that respects science while giving spirit its full due.
We explore reality through three working layers. In the formed world, fixed laws, biology, and fate set firm boundaries: gravity holds, atoms keep their identities, and bodies require rest and nourishment. In the subtle world, symbols, culture, and psyche shape what we notice and how we respond—where expectation can turn a shadow into a monster or make a non‑alcoholic drink feel intoxicating. In the causal world, the realm of will and astral work, form follows thought, allowing rich inner constructions that influence mood, focus, and behavior when carried back into daily life.
This lens clears up common misconceptions. Magic works cooperatively through persuasion and priming, not brute force. You can become who your structure can sustain—stronger, clearer, more skillful—without pretending to rewrite physics or transform into something you are not. Instead of grandiose claims, we focus on reliable practice: using intention to shape attention, ritual to anchor meaning, and action to honor real‑world constraints.
Curious about power without self‑deception? Press play, grab a fresh cup of coffee, and step into a model that’s as practical as it is mythic. If the conversation resonates, subscribe, share the episode, and leave a review to help others find the show.
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Welcome to Pagan Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. So today we're going to explore the relationship between consciousness and reality. Yay.
Speaker:There is the topic, or there is this concept and occult practices that we create our own realities through our own thoughts. That's how they believe reality is created. Okay. Or at least that's how it's explained in the wider pagan community that we create reality through our thoughts. Unfortunately, I don't think that's exactly how in the world this theory actually went. Okay. Are you with me? And I believe a lot of yeah, a lot of people are misexcruding this that yes, one thing can become another thing if one believes it strong enough.
Speaker 2:Are you with me? Okay. So basically, conscious consciousness can create reality without limits.
Speaker:Right. It's sort of the way it's that that's their argument, right? That's their argument, but that's not what the theory is. Okay. To some extent. All right. And and here, let me give you an example. I can raise a tree and do the whole bonsai thing and get it the shape and make it look like a dog, right?
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But at no point will it become ever really become a living, breathing mammal. Are you with me? It won't actually become a, no matter how much I believe in it, no matter how often I go talk to it, the whole nine yards. Yes, you can do this and create a fault form, which isn't necessarily against the rules of physics and the laws of nature. Because it sort of lives on a different plane and it can sort of interact with ours, but again, it won't become a dog. Right? I'm sorry, the whole concept of changing lead and the gold isn't quite like what people think it is.
Speaker 2:All right. So um, where do you personally draw the line between what consciousness can influence and what it can't?
Speaker:Well, it can influence most of the spirit realms and the emotional and mental state. This is the realm, this is what causes glamours to happen. Okay. What you're doing is you're not changing reality. What you're doing is changing people's viewpoints of it or how they're perceiving it. Okay, so it's changing a perception. It's changing the perception. It's not changing reality. Think of it this way: think about the stage magicians or the um the not magicians, the um the people that do the whole entire hypnotism tricks. This is literally what they're doing. The hypnotist is in placing their will upon other people to change their perception of reality.
Speaker 2:So you don't think they're actually hypnotizing these people? They're just changing their perception of what is what is considered hypnosis?
Speaker:To some extent. Okay. Okay, because the participants are allowing this person access to change their perception. Hence the reason why they get up on stage and do all this weird stuff. Gotcha. Because to them, this is what they're seeing, it's not what's real.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker:This is something we can control.
Speaker 2:Well, then let me ask you this: have you ever believed that consciousness could do more or less than what you believe now? And what changed your mind?
Speaker:Well, consciousness, consciousness can do some things. There is a placebo effect, but this is internal. Where in the world you think you're sick or you think you have a problem, so therefore it is.
Speaker 2:Right. But I'm asking, like in the past, did you believe differently than you do now? And if you and if so, what changed your mind?
Speaker:Well, uh well, again, uh you sit there and you keep on trying to say, okay, the stick is the snake and it never changes. When I used to believe that, my only problem was is it never would happen. Hmm, okay. All right. When you test the theory, when I was younger and I actually tested the theory, it never happened. Nothing ever changed physically.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you've kind of always been the person to basically take everything from a scientific point of view and kind of test out and see what actually does and doesn't work and to to some extent.
Speaker:Okay. Yeah. All right. Because again, I I I don't I do not believe in the supernatural. There's nothing that can override nature itself. I believe even the gods are constrained on the realm that they live in by their physics and logic on their plane of ram uh of existence. They're restrained just like we are.
Speaker 2:Okay, so they have they have their limits just like we do.
Speaker:Totally right. Again, nothing works outside of the framework of natural laws. You know, I mean, just because we decide gravity's not a real thing, you jump off a building, you're gonna hit the ground.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, speaking of laws then, I well, I was gonna say speaking of laws, let's look at um, now this is all stuff that uh you wrote a paper and and I'm just taking questions from from this paper, right? And you mentioned the three orders of reality. You've got the formed world, which includes fixed laws, biology, and fate. So let's let's look at that one.
Speaker:Yes. All right, well, I mean, that's just the physical world. You know, at the end of the day, if you're born a human, you stay a human, you're not going to suddenly transform into a dog.
Speaker 2:Okay, but um you you said fixed laws, biology, these are physics and fate. So how do these fit into this conversation?
Speaker:Well, again, these are things can't be changed, no matter what in the world you do. All right. Again, gravity works. There there's as of right now, there's no theory or technology that allows us to not be influenced by gravity. Are you are you with me?
Speaker 2:Well, then talk a little bit about the subtle the subtle world, which is symbol, psyche, and meaning.
Speaker:This isn't the stuff where things start getting a little bit more iffy. We're a little bit more into the psychology of people in into that semi-inner world where things have to be questioned. So, do we behave this way because we're programmed to, or do we because that's the way we think we should behave? Those are all interesting questions. All right. And again, this is this is where in the world we're starting to get into the realms of that stuff that's you know, well, what behavior does a dog have? Well, unfortunately, humans can mimic those behaviors. So are they really that dissimilar? So this is where this realm is. It's that stuff to where it don't quite fit the picture or the mold. There is a little bit of flexibility there.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, then what about the casual world? This is uh will, intention, and magical causation.
Speaker:This is that line. This is the complete spiritual world. You have two modes, all right? Here you have it to where form fits function. Okay. In the spiritual world, it's the other way around. Form follows thought in the spiritual world, in the physical world, it's the other way around. In other words, we're limited by a chair, is always a chair. It its function is already declared by its form. Are you with me? Yeah. When we're on the spiritual realm or in the astral plane, it's the other way around. You can literally create whatever you want and it will become form in front of you. You just can't do it in this reality. Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. So on the on the astral plane, yeah, we can do this all day. You can create chairs and stuff that don't exist in this world. So those those freaky models that that one guy made.
Speaker 2:Okay. So uh after a little bit of technical difficulties, you were talking about um the guy who made the freaky models.
Speaker:Yeah, the the the the the 3D optical illusion papers, drawings, you know what I'm talking about? I think so, yeah. In in this realm, these things are possible because we can just imagine it. It will happen.
Speaker 2:All right. So, how do you see each of these shaping our lived reality?
Speaker:Well, again, we we have to pull apart from what is in this world, what in the world we cannot affect. There's no spell to make the earth rotate backwards. Are you with me? When we do magic and stuff, and we're talking about on this, we can only do magic within the laws of nature here. Because again, there's nothing more greater than nature itself, so supernatural doesn't actually exist. I know nobody can break those laws.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so basically it's our consciousness can influence reality not where anything, not where anything is fixed, but where it's a little more flexible.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay. Now in your paper you use the term plastic. What did you mean by plastic? It's piable, it's easy to remove. Oh, okay. So yeah, flexible.
Speaker:It's easy. There are places in the world where yes, the laws can we while we can't break the laws at times we can maybe bend them a little bit, but we can't actually completely break them.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, then here's a question for you, out of curiosity, since you brought this up. Have you ever tried to change something that you thought was pliable or flexible, and it turned out to be something that was fixed?
Speaker:Oh god, who has it?
Speaker 2:Like what? Could you give us an example?
Speaker:Lord, your hair color, your eye color. Uh you name it. Okay. Think of all the spells that teenagers do. Well, true. You know, pick something, you know. I mean, if you really want to be honest, you know, you know how hard it is to sit there and hold a cigarette in your hand going, no, it's something else. It's not really tobacco, it's something else. And then it doesn't change. Then it don't change. All right. I'm just saying. And yes, if everybody puts their mind in the right place, y'all know what I'm talking about here.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think most everybody's gonna figure that out really quick.
Speaker:But again, here's your point, here's my point. Not a big leap. We're we're changing one plant for another plant, but it doesn't work. Gotcha. All right. Now, to get them just to confuse and muddy the water just a little bit more, you empty out a tobacco or you empty out a cigarette, you roll it up into a paper, and you tell someone it's this, that it is marijuana, they smoke it, then they start acting like it is. That's pliable. Okay, but well, it's the same thing that happens when you get when they take a group of kids or a group of uh young adults and give them non-alcoholic beer and tell them it's alcoholic. The individuals think they're doing something else and start to act as if they have been drinking or doing drugs.
Speaker 2:Okay, but in that case Because they believe it to be so. But in that case, I think it works because it tastes like beer. Yeah. Tobacco tastes nothing like the other tobacco.
Speaker:I'm just saying, again, the psychological again, all we're doing is a placebo effect. To some extent. Are are you with what I'm saying? I mean, I suppose it could work, yeah. So again, here's something that's a little bit plastic in our lives. And again, it actually does affect you.
Speaker 2:Okay, so on on that note, would you say that magic is cooperative?
Speaker:I'm gonna say it depends on again, magic depends on the will. If my will is stronger than yours, if I can convince you what I'm telling you is reality, you're going to act that way. Okay. It doesn't change reality itself.
Speaker 2:But does but it doesn't act by brute force, does it?
Speaker:Well, no. Well, let's think about it a different way, all right? Let's think shape shifters. I do not believe at any time anyone can shape shift into a different thing. All right, the werewolves and the skinwalkers do not physically change. What happens here? What what what causes this? All right. Let's take an 18th-century man who is deathly afraid, just like most people, of actual wild animals. You can't look at this as modern people because we've sort of lost that fear response. Right. Because we're not around animals as much. All right. You're out in the woods. It's a partial full moon, right? Let's say it's a quarter full moon. It's still quite dark, but there's enough light there to maybe see stuff, and you have shadows upon shadows. You have howling in the background and other what other beasts sounds like, and you're out there trying to hunt down what you believe is some type of monster, right? Okay, yeah. Now, on the other side, the monster is just the guy. Pick what you want, magic mushrooms, insanity, whatever. For whatever reason, believes he's turned into a monster. He behaves, growls, and the whole nine yards as if he was that monster, right? Okay. 100% believes it. He is putting out psychic energy at that point to have everybody perceive him as an animal because he's behaving as one and he thinks of himself as one. This is the basic understanding of a glamour. The guy that's afraid, hunting this down, is already primed. His defenses are down. Why? Because he's already scared. He's already looking for monsters. So when the guy attacks him, he sees a monster. He sees a wolf. He sees some type of creature. He does not see the man. And he kills the guy. Uh the illusion that the guy was casting then ends because he's dead. Emotions calm back down and reality starts to set back in, and suddenly the beast turns into a man. There was no real transformation. The illusion just broke. That's all. Are you with what I'm saying there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's it's kind of like and I hate to kind of put it this way, but so you're you're saying it's kind of predatory in nature because it it feeds off of existing fears and existing traumas and whatever else that lowers your defenses.
Speaker:Well, let's just say it it depends on your mindset versus just fear. All right. If you're sitting there and you're you're expecting to go into a place and see an elf, you're gonna see an elf. Doesn't matter that the person's not. I guess so. That that basically our expectations sometimes cloud our judgment of what we actually see.
Speaker 2:See, I just I don't know. I guess because I'm more of a logical person, I kind of find this this topic a little irrational. Right. Do I want to see an elf? Yes. Am I going to? No.
Speaker:Well again, if you're primed. Well again, if if you're primed, if if you're living in a world that's not ours where there's still a mystique about certain things. Okay, yeah. All right. See, there there's my point about this is you have to be steeped in this culture for these things to happen.
Speaker 2:That makes sense because not too long ago I just saw a video of um uh an Irish lady um talking about fairies, and she, you know, and somebody asked her, Do you truly believe that they exist? And she was like, Oh yes. Just not how you think they do. Right. Um, but yeah, she and and she you know, she was an older lady, so she was she came through all of that, and she she was basically, like you said, she's all in it. She was brought up in it.
Speaker:It was her way of life. Well, again, just just like I said on my example about the shape shifters. I had to go back to the 18th century where we were more fighting with animals, you know, on a regular basis. It was common to get torn up by wolves and other beasts out in the for no other reason than you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. We don't live in that world no more. No, we don't. So again, that fear is sort of lost. I mean, nowadays people go to zoos and and these wild animals, lions and tigers, will sit there and attack and people don't flinch because, well, there's this barrier there protecting them. Right. And you know, and then unfortunately, and I'm gonna say this not nicely, but sort of, you know, unfortunately, a lot of people still have the idea of Disney in their head when it comes to these animals. Yes, yes, they do. To some extent, people don't fear wild animals like they should nowadays.
Speaker 2:Well, and even even those in the zoo, people need to realize that yeah, the barriers are there, but barriers have been crossed. Right. And they're still wild animals. I mean, right.
Speaker:I mean, uh every park and everywhere it says all this stuff. These are wild animals. Be careful. If you're feeding them, be careful, they can attack. Right. I mean, we like to think that deers are all fluffy and nice and sweet and all this. No, they're not. They're not. Bucks with them, the bucks and them antlers are dangerous things. They are very dangerous, yes. They can hurt and kill you with them things. Oh, easily. All right. So, our like I said, our fear response is that again, when you're living in those environments and stuff, it's a little bit different. It's easier for those things to happen. It's harder for us to imagine that. All right, all right, but again, it it's no more different than you sitting there watching a scary movie at night about aliens or something, then having a dream about and then having a nightmare about them a few hours later. Right. It technically is the same process going on. Technically, at least in your head, it your your brain perceives it as reality. Are you are you with me? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So, with with that thought in mind, um, has reality ever pushed back? Can you recall any time in in your practice and your journey when you did something and re reality forced your conversation?
Speaker:Yeah, that happens all the time. You know. Oh, here, I'm gonna cast a spell to make myself stronger so I can pick up this log that I normally couldn't. Right. How often does that actually work?
Speaker 2:Well, it might work temporarily, but your body's still gonna pay for it.
Speaker:Again, again, it's an illusion, it's a trick, but are you with what I'm saying? Reality really wasn't affected. Right. You know, you just happen to be just barely strong enough to move it, but it takes time, it takes effort, and yes, there's a price to pay afterwards. You're gonna be sore.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. You're gonna be sore, you might actually have pulled a muscle.
Speaker:And you might have actually hurt yourself. But at the time, no, you don't experience any of that. Right. If you've ever been in an accident and you think you're okay, and then the very then you go home and you go to bed and you wake up the next day, stiff as all get out and can't move. Right. So again, you you have that problem, and people tend not to think about that.
Speaker 2:When it is something we should be thinking about.
Speaker:When it is something we should be thinking about, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. So I have another question for you. Are there any magical misunderstandings that come from compute confusing symbol or symbolic truth with literal truth?
Speaker:I think this is where we fall more into this whole entire manifesting destiny. Okay. Where in the world, just by pure, oh, I'm gonna be a good person, good things are gonna happen to me. The world's a whole lot more random than that.
Speaker 2:All right. So you think that's that's more along the lines of a symbolic truth, and the literal truth is that it's just it just doesn't work that way.
Speaker:Right. Well, well, again, the the idea here is that you know, sometimes good things happen to bad people, and sometimes bad things happen to good people. Okay. And just because you haven't experienced that yet doesn't mean it won't happen to you. You know, eventually someone will die, a pet will die, something, somebody in your family, and the whole entire illusion starts to fall apart. Oh, but I imagine believed for years that my family would be great for years to come, and why didn't it manifest? Because that's not reality.
Speaker 2:Are there are there any ways that we can avoid or change our perception of that and maybe not mistake symbolic truth for literal truth?
Speaker:Well, first of all, we have to learn what the difference is between the two. Okay. All right, you have to figure out okay, this is form, it cannot change. All right, whatsoever. The desk in front of you, the computer screen, if you're driving in the car, that steering wheel in front of you cannot physically change. So you need to have some common sense, you need to have some logic. Right. You need to have some logic there on what is possible versus what's not possible. Okay. We still have to operate within this reality. All right, this is part of our life. At the end of the day, you're gonna get hungry. At the end of the day, you're gonna get sleepy, you're gonna get thirsty at some time. No matter what spell you do is not gonna change any of this. You don't eat long enough, you're gonna die. You're just gonna waste away. You don't drink, you'll eventually die of dehydration. Okay. These are hard, steady facts. No matter what you do, it's not gonna change it. Can you? I mean, again, but I hate to be this way. Yeah, you can get away with it for a little while, but you can't do it for your whole entire life. Are you are you with me?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, no, I mean, it's it's gonna break down at some point.
Speaker:Right. We have to be reasonable about what we can actually affect and what we can't affect.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, now you you ended your your little paper. Uh I say little paper, but it was it was uh very thought-provoking to be sure. Um you ended it uh with a statement and you said you can become who you are capable of being, but not what you are not structurally designed to be.
Speaker:What does that mean? Everyone has potential to become a scientist, everyone has the potential to become the parent president. That potential doesn't change, but you changing who you are physically without going through extreme measures doesn't change. Okay. Okay. All right, and in other words, yes, you can go to the gym, you can work out, and you can transform your body, but you're not actually transforming your body, you're just hyping up your muscles versus everything else. You're not changing, you're not physically changing the structure of your muscles, you're just making them bigger. Gotcha, yeah. So again, once you're in that form, that's it. It doesn't change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so to put it a little more clearly, you're not changing the shape of your muscle necessarily. Changing the volume. You're changing the volume.
Speaker:And even then, this is not happening mysteriously. You're you're you're taking in food and your body's replacing these things, so it's not like this is coming out of nowhere. The way everybody wants to describe this is yes, it I I can become a werewolf. Right. I can physically change into a beast. I don't think that's possible.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, we have vivid imaginations as humans, or we have the capability of having that, but like you said, it doesn't it doesn't mean that we can actually change our physical structure. We might we can change we might be able to visualize it.
Speaker:Well, we might be able to change our consciousness and behave like one. Well, sure, but not our physical structure. Not our physical structure. Again, the tree can never become the dog.
Speaker 2:So it's yeah, so it's another thing. You need to approach it with some logic, some common sense. Yeah.
Speaker:Mm-hmm. And be a little bit rational, be a little bit more grounded in earth on this. This is not this is not that complicated. This is not that far out idea.
Speaker 2:Right. And we're also we're also not saying don't have some fun with it. But but understand the difference there.
Speaker:Right. Right. In other words, you yes, you can you can mess with people with this concept, their their their view of reality, but you can't change reality. Right. Okay. I mean, an oxygen uh you you will never change we will never be able to magically change an oxygen atom into something else. Yeah, are you with me? It's not possible. It's not possible. I mean, are there other things we can do in science with this? Yeah. And can we create new elements? Yeah, but it takes a lot of energy and effort, and the majority of them aren't stable. Right. So a little plastic, but not completely. I hope that helps people. I hope so. I hope so. Because again, like I said, I see a lot of this in the pagan community where people took this concept and ran with it and and it want to claim all this miraculous stuff that it can do and the thought, but at some point it clashes with reality. And we we we we can't sit there and muddle this up because again, I think it's confusing some people, and it's making them believe that we believe we can turn people into werewolves, we can create things out of thin air. This is not happening. Right. Can it happen on the astral? Yes, because that's what the astral plane is, it's pure thought.
Speaker 2:Well, and and so with that, I mean, pure thought, like you said, you can you can imagine some funky chair that doesn't function as a chair.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker 2:Well, again, well, but we can't do that in reality.
Speaker:Right. On the astral plane, I sit down, I meditate, and on the astral plane, I can sit there and gather up as much energy as I want. I don't have to wait for the full moon. Why? Because again, on the astral plane, time really don't exist. I can just move to when the full moon is full. Right. But my body, my physical body's not going anywhere. It's just my soul. Right. So again, we we we have to realize what these two different states are, and unfortunately, I think a lot of people want to overlap them when they talk about this stuff, and it sort of confuses people and makes them think that there are things that we can do that we really can't.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully, this gives people something to think about and something to work through and become a little bit more grounded.
Speaker:Hopefully.
Speaker 2:Send us your comments, your re gestures. Um, leave us a review. Fan mail. Yeah, fan mail, share, like, all that good stuff. Otherwise, let's go get let's go get some more coffee. Let's go get some coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media. Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.
Speaker 1:We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a deal blazing pyro. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning break. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning break.
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