Recognizing and Avoiding Spiritual Ego

In this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, the hosts dive into the often‑misunderstood concept of spiritual ego—the subtle (and sometimes not‑so‑subtle) arrogance that can creep into spiritual practice. Drawing from decades of experience in traditional witchcraft, they explore how ego shows up in the community, from first‑degree arrogance to the belief that initiation or years of study automatically make someone superior. As one speaker notes, “Spirituality is loose enough that anyone can sound good,” a reminder of how easily confidence can slip into ego when humility is lost.

The conversation also tackles the difference between imposter syndrome and genuine ego inflation, emphasizing that insecurity often comes from a lack of understanding, while spiritual ego emerges when someone believes they know more than they actually do. The hosts highlight common red flags—defensiveness, fixation on authority, gatekeeping, and treating leaders as infallible. They stress that true spiritual growth requires curiosity, accountability, and the willingness to be wrong. As they put it, “If you keep these principles alive in your daily life, you’re not gonna have to worry about spiritual ego.”

Grounded in humor, honesty, and traditional practice, this episode offers a candid look at how practitioners can stay humble, avoid elitism, and maintain balance within their craft. Whether you're a solitary witch, a coven member, or simply exploring pagan spirituality, this discussion provides valuable insight into navigating ego, fostering community, and staying rooted in authentic practice.

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Transcript

Welcome And Defining Spiritual Ego

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Welcome to Peggy Coffee Hall. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. All right, so I came across this topic in our little bag of tricks, our bag of goodies. So what is spiritual ego?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Uh I'm not sure how to put that.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

That you're more spiritual than you think you are? Maybe. Because I kind of think of ego as you know, somebody coming along. Well, I do more than anybody else. Or I'm more involved than anybody else. I'm better.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

I guess it really depends on what what what definition of ego is it are the are they referring to? Were they talking about ego as in my personality, or is it ego in me being an arrogant asshole?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Well, I don't know. This was your topic, so that's why I was asking.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Well, again, what my assumption is that we're talking about the arrogance part. That's my assumption. On this, uh, I mean, I just want to put it out there. There are two different things there.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Uh well, so we're not talking, but but just clear, we're not talking about like Youngin or No.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

No, I I think we're we're talking more of ego. Like egotistical arrogant, egotistical than we are, arrogant versus actual personality. You know, even though that could be argued because even Lady Tegan swears up and down that there's like two of me? There's me, and then there's when I become knight and put on that hat.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Now, now for you for for you, I um uh after 30 something years of being together, I'm sure you don't see the difference between the two.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

No, I don't. To me, it was the same.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

You just you just you just see the difference in when I'm acting serious versus when I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Well, yeah, but I mean, otherwise you you act the same regardless.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Right. So again, I don't see that as something we need to talk about because again, you are who you are, so I assume we're talking about the arrogance of being a leader or even those who go around calling themselves just a witch.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Well, I was I was gonna say, do you think it comes from um from like social media? Or do you think social media is being a uh a contributor to that?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Actually, I think it comes from stupidity. Yeah. How so in the same way, stupid people are always the first ones to talk. Stupid people are always the first ones to debate. Smart people, really smart people, normally don't. They normally hold their lip, they normally think about what they're about to say and double check. Most smart people have a problem there because they're too busy. Well, am I right or am I not? Versus the dumb person who just automatically believes that they are right. So again, we're running into the same psychological problem here.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Well, I don't I see, I don't know that I would classify that as stupidity or being dumb. I would say that's misinformed.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Well, again, it is it is that lack of knowledge, it is that lack of self-awareness that you could be wrong.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

So you think this happens more with like solitaires than it does with coven members?

Arrogance And The Certainty Trap

SPEAKER_01 3:57

I I think it happens to everybody to some extent. Okay, so I I I I hate to be this way. It happens to everybody to some extent, yes. Not just solitaires, not just not just beginners either. Not just beginners, all right? Because I mean there is the whole first degree arrogance thing that always seems to happen.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Oh, yeah, we've seen that quite a few times. All right, we've got your first places.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Right. You you you have somebody that becomes a first degree and they think they're all that in a bag of chips. Right. Most first degrees, if you've learned first degrees, that just means you know how to function inside the temple. End of subject.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

The great accomplishment.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

I mean, yes, it is an accomplishment, but and you're on your way to becoming more of a priest or a priestess, but you just even then it's not just, you know, that that was my point earlier when I said it's not just beginners. Um, it happens to seasoned people as well. You know, you get a little cocky every once in a while, and well, let's make it even worse.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

When we're talking about spirituality in general, all right, I mean somebody proved me wrong. All right, because again, spirituality, there's the problem. It's not like science, where there is the bullying point of water, right? Spirituality is a little bit more loose, it's loose enough to where anyone can sound good.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Are you with what I'm trying to say there? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And I I don't know how else to say that. There is a problem with spirituality, it's easy for hence the reason you wind up with con artists and all this other stuff milking people for thousands of dollars. Right. All right, because uh uh a person with a good uh with uh what what is that that perfect type of personality to pull people in and the home nine yards, you got spiritual ego here.

Imposter Syndrome And Honest Limits

SPEAKER_02 6:07

So would you say and I'm gonna ask this, but uh because it comes from my opinion on this. Would you say that um this is kind of where for some people the imposter syndrome comes in? Because sometimes we run across those people, including ourselves at times. Well, like for me personally, I I feel like I have imposter syndrome because I feel like I'm not qualified to talk about a lot of things, and then people come to me about these things, and I'm don't do that, I don't deserve this conversation. And do you think that that's kind of where that sort of happens?

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I I think what causes the imposture syndrome is our lack of knowledge in a specific subject. Instead of sitting there trying to admit that we just don't know and doing like what you just did, that this is not a conversation. I'm you you've talked you're barking up the wrong tree here to have this conversation with me. That ends the imposture syndrome. So again, that's what makes me think that those who have it, they're they're they're sort of they know they're bullshitting themselves, they know they're bullshitting other people when they're talking about these subjects because they don't understand them that much.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Right. Well, see, like for me, for me, it's tricky because I feel like I'm qualified to talk about a lot of things. And I'm qualified to do a lot of things. But it's like even in my work, people put me up on a pedestal, and sometimes I just feel like that's not you don't need to be doing this. I know what you're talking about there because again, and that may not be total imposter syndrome, but right.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

I mean, I had a job there where I ran around like a chicken with my head cut off half the damn day, and everybody thought I did miracles and walked on water. I just but that's not what actually happened. So it was easy for me to keep myself a little bit more humbled on those situations because even though they would sit there and run their mouth going, Oh, you're you're so wonderful, great, great, great. You you did something, nobody no, I didn't. I just lucked out. Right. You didn't see the five hours of hard work that went into getting this accomplished, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:33

But you know, with that being said, I think this is this is where it's one of the things that contributes to the spiritual ego thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

It's the pressure, it's the pressure that other people put on you.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Well, no, when you get praised for things a lot, it feels good, and people just you know, and then you just kind of absorb that and you start getting cocky, and that ego, that egotistical attitude starts coming out, and then then it's you know, all of a sudden, you know, you you're looking at people and be like, Well, you just don't know shit, do you?

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I I'm not gonna sit here and say I haven't ever had those moments in which you're talking about, but every time I've ever had them moments, like five seconds later, after I had that moment, there's a slap down that comes really hard after that for me.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Usually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Usually somewhere I mean, yeah, somewhere alone there. All right. But again, if you if you truly, there's a difference between knowing something and understanding something. Absolutely, yeah. If you know something, you can use it, all right. If you understand it, you can manipulate it to your advantage.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Understanding is more, it's more than just how is this done.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Right. All right. It's me sitting here going, okay, well, because I understand how a microwave works, we can take these components, pull them out, and turn it into a uh a microwave gun.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Right. That's that's understanding.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Because now I'm taking stuff and manipulating it to my advantage. Right. If you don't know that and you're asked about a subject and you kind of bullshit your way through it, that to me is what causes that imposter central because you know you're bullshitting your way through. Right. Instead of just being honest about it. I don't think that's spiritual ego. Okay. I think spiritual ego is when you actually believe you know a lot about a subject and you don't.

Common Signs You Are Posturing

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Okay, so that would be Did you see the difference there? All right, well, let's let let's dive in, let's dive into that a little bit more. So now we're talking about signs of spiritual ego, right? Right. So something like that would be, I guess it would be more like um uh a fixation with authority. Right. Well, I know this, therefore I'm better than you.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yes, right. Or I've gone through this, so therefore I am better than you. Right. I'm initiated, you're not. Or or is that whole entire, you know, hey, you know, I've studied for 20 years, you haven't, so I've read this many books, you haven't. Right. Right. I mean, just because you've read the books don't mean you understand the books, but no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

But I also think it's uh it, you know, if you've got people who are reacting defensively to some type of a disagreement or some type of correction on something, then yeah, that's that's another sign.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, I mean, if you see people getting, if you're sitting there and you're talking to somebody about stuff and they start getting a little bit irritated with you, yeah, the majority of the times I consider that a sign that you don't know what in the world you're talking about. You're getting irritated because I keep on pointing to those sections. I've seen people do that and not realize that they're poking holes in the other person's theory, right, left and right, because they're having to change what in the world they're saying every other time. And they're too busy wrapped up in the conversation to even know what's going on. Right. You know, you sit there on the outside going, you really want to tap I've seen this before, and I really want to tap in the person going, look, they don't know what they're talking about. You've already gone two levels above them. Right. Hence the reason when you're not getting any answers, and hence the reason that that that that look is on their face. Right. They're trying to figure out how to end the conversation and get away from you. Right. But again, here's what I'm gonna say. If we're doing our meditations, if we're honest with ourselves, if we're doing our rituals, right? If we're doing these things and following the patterns and attuning ourselves to nature and all this other stuff, this becomes less and less of a problem.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Right. Well, and I I think we can I can sum that up in one word humility. And I'm not talking about just performative, I'm talking absolute humility. Humidity. Like when when you know, when people say, God, you're so knowledgeable, and I bet this and I bet that, I bet you know all this. And I'm like, no, hold on. No, I can tell you right now, I don't know as much as you think I do.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I know my field of expertise.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

And even then, there's things I don't know. So don't do that. Don't, don't, don't that's humility.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, that's humility. And again, it's knowing what you do and don't know. And again, I know you hated this at the beginning, but stupid people tend to open their mouths first and can keep on talking. Really smart people are the ones sitting back going, uh no, this ain't my field, or I'm not 100% sure, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. Right. All right, and and and for as much as everybody wants to go, oh, he's being made I'm I'm sorry, this is the verifiable fact of nature of human nature. Right. All right, it's been studied a hundred times.

Pagan Leadership And Infallibility Myths

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Well, when we when we so we've discussed some signs of uh of what it is and how to identify it, just in general, let's discuss some that is more specific to the pagan community.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah, ouch. Um, this is gonna hurt some folks, and I'm you know I'm sorry, but I'm not. So yeah, we we've said it once before that you know, just because you're initiated does not make you better than anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

No.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

And if you're one of those people, then you need your spiritual ego and check.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Well, uh well, again, it if you were trained well in the whole nine yards, you realize as you go up that ladder, it only gets worse.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Right, it only gets worse.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Um it only gets worse because there's more responsibility, there's more things you have to think about, there's more stuff, and there's enough stuff there to make sure you stay humble.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Um, another thing of uh that is if you're if your leaders are being treated as infallible or unquestionable, there's some spiritual ego that needs to be in check somewhere around in there. Yes, you need to watch out for that.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Don't do it to as a spiritual leader. I here's what I would ask the community stop doing this to us. Right. All right. Now, again, why I have a warm spot for our elder, he was still an elder, he was still a man, right, and he had his mistakes, right? All right, no, me and that man did not always get along. No, you didn't, but I still respect him for what he did. I'm not gonna put him up there on a D D spot as if, ooh, oh right, and all that. Are are you with me? So again, we have to keep that in check. Yes, I'm gonna say that, yeah, you should listen to third degrees. At least if you ask us for our advice, we're gonna tell you what we think.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

And right, and realize that for most of you know, most of those third degrees, I can't say most of us because I'm not a third degree, but for most of those folks, it comes from uh uh you know experience, and they didn't just get their degree overnight. It took many years to get to that point, so there's some experience level there. Um you don't even have to follow it, just heed the advice, you know. Just okay, well, they said that. I might that's something I might want to think about.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Well, well, again, I I'm gonna be sitting there if if you're part of a temple or a group or just a group in general, and everybody in the sort of has this, well, you know, you really shouldn't be questioning this person or that that's a red flag to me.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah, that's a huge red flag.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

That's a huge red flag. All right. When when you're not allowed to question or to bring up other viewpoints that might even counteract others, because I've seen that happen. Oh, yeah. You know, where well you you bring up the long read, and they're like, well, we're only gonna use the short read. So the long read never existed. So right. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 17:16

You know, there's too many words in there, we're not gonna use that.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

But again, sitting there going it being against bringing in the long read and let people read it or at least know about it, that to me is a red flag there.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, I'm not saying you adopt it into your tradition, but it's the whole withholding information.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

It's gatekeeping, it's um that's more of the gatekeeping that everybody's talking about. Where they're this is probably where in the world you're if you're following someone and they do this, this is probably where they have that imposter syndrome because they don't know the subject, so they don't want the subject brought up, right? So they really don't understand it or the concept of it, so they don't want to bring it up because again, that will point out the fact that they're not as knowledgeable as they're probably going around and claiming, right? So why not? No, that's not part of our tradition. We're not even gonna talk about it, we're just gonna ignore it.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Well, no, I mean, uh well, and you know, for that matter, there's a lot of things that aren't part of our tradition, but we're more than willing to talk about it because we you know, we want to learn, you know. Oh, that's interesting. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

No, no, no, let's forget learn, let's forget learning for one second. You know, I would sit there and talk witchcraft for hours on end if I could.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It doesn't matter what it's about.

Gatekeeping Claims And Real Witch Tests

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Won't matter what it's about. Uh you've seen me and Lord Minn and me and other people do that for years. Oh, yeah. Any subject.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Well, and and and I'll and you know, and I'll tell you this. I I think um something else that's a probably a good sign of a spiritual ego is um anybody, anybody who sits around and says, Well, real witches do this. If you don't do this, you're not a witch.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Well, I have a problem with that. Uh I do, but I don't because I want to say the following. All real witches meditate.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Well, yeah, but that also comes from a traditional place as well, because well, but again, that's what we believe, it's what we practice.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

So again, I'm gonna sit there. Yeah, I'll all real witches meditate of some form or another.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

So okay, so you might have a little bit of spiritual ego going on. I don't just kick it. Okay, maybe. Let's say the uh the the first step to uh uh recovery is admitting you have a problem.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

I dad did yes, I have a problem with meditation, yes. Everyone should be doing that too.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Um yeah, yeah. Well, I mean that comes from experience, and we've we've seen people's lives be completely transformed because they started meditating. So um, you know, it works.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I'm just putting that joke out there. I'm just gonna sit there and say that. But again, there's where my list ends, all right? Right. And it begins right there.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

So something else I think is uh is that us versus them.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

So like anybody, you know, anybody who says, well, just because you're not part of witchcraft. Or you're not part of our tradition. Right. I'm better than you. You're not worthy.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I get I get again. I have never admit, I will never admit or anything to having the teaching the way. Right. I teach a way.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Right. Right. We do not have we do not have access to some special destiny or power or anything like that. This is this is just a way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Well, that's kind of like the most of the mysteries that we that we don't talk about and stuff like that, outside our traditions, they're absolutely useless. Uh to be quite honest with you, why in the world people choose us of gatekeeping? If you're not following our tradition, why do you even care? Right. They're only relevant there. Because again, at the end of the day, what gatekeeping of magic is everybody actually doing? How many books are there? Yeah. I'm just saying. Very true. People gatekeep religion, not magic. And most people can complain about us gatekeeping magic. I don't see no gatekeeping going on when it comes to magic.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

No, no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Something I said just the other day. I can only teach you what I believe, and either you listen to me or you don't.

Humility Practices Ethics And Closing

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Well, and and that's that's something that uh this type of attitude. And and you know, I said humility earlier. These are things that help keep you from being this elitist, you know, having that spiritual ego. Stay curious. Stay curious. Stay open to being wrong. Oh, beg to be wrong. Right? Please be accountable. Welcome feedback. You learn more when you're wrong than when you're right. Right, which is why we tell the listeners all the time, we need your feedback. You know? Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Well, I'm gonna go back to our three forms of ethics. Why do you think we sit here and tell people to keep your word, accept responsibility for your actions, and try to maintain balance? Yep. The three things will help try to keep you hung humble and will keep that ego, help you keep you that ego under check. Right. At the end of the day, those who want to break these or want to trick people or whatever, eventually their true colors will show through. Eventually they will. No matter what in the world happens, or either that or they're gonna be pretending their whole entire lives and doing the correct thing anyway. Right. Well, we still wind up in the same place. We do, we sure do. Good figure. I it's just the way I look at it. These are the things we should do, these are the things we should believe in. Right. Like I said, if you if you keep these principles alive in your daily life, you're not gonna have to worry about spiritual ego. No, no, you're not. Do you meditations?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

All right. On that note, share like feedback, feedback, comment.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Meditate.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Please share. And we're gonna go get some more coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media: Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning.