Where Is Our Dr. Evil With A Moon Laser?

In this episode, the hosts dive into the logic—and illogic—behind historical witchcraft accusations, questioning whether it ever made sense for so‑called witches to harm their own tightly knit communities. Drawing from the witch trials, mob mentality, and human survival instincts, they explore how fear, power struggles, and social pressure shaped accusations far more than actual magic. The conversation challenges long‑held assumptions about evil witches, community dynamics, and the stories we inherit about harm and intention.

The discussion then shifts to what “evil” really means within modern Pagan practice. Are there truly destructive practitioners, or just people acting out of ignorance, ego, or emotional imbalance? The hosts unpack the blurry line between unethical behavior, manipulation, and the mythical “wicked witch,” ultimately suggesting that pure evil—destruction for its own sake—defies human logic. Instead, they highlight the importance of balance, personal responsibility, and understanding the motivations behind human actions.

Finally, the episode grounds these ideas in practical Pagan living, emphasizing survival skills, connection to nature, and critical thinking over fear‑based narratives. By reframing witchcraft, ethics, and the concept of evil, the hosts invite listeners to rethink cultural myths and examine how human nature shapes both past and present beliefs.

Join us on
Discord:  https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook

Transcript

Welcome And Support The Show

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome to Taking Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. Got a question for you. All right. All right. I got an answer, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Maybe.

Witch Trials Logic In Small Towns

SPEAKER_02 0:29

All right. During the witch trials, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

These witches would normally get tried for something bad. They would have cursed someone or did a hex on someone's cow or made them sick or anything like that. But yet these communities were small enough that everybody knew each other. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Everybody relied on each other. If the blacksmith did not work, nobody was getting any blacksmithing stuff. I mean, you're the bread maker didn't work. Nobody's getting any bread.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

So why cast a spell on your community when it's going to hurt you? How does this make sense? Which brings up the question. So is there such a thing as a real wicked witch of the West? Someone who's just going to destroy a community because they can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Right. Just baneful magic all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

All the time for no other reason but to because again, this is basically how the stories go, or for some petty vengeance thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Well, those are the ones we hear. I don't know that that's actually the case, because I mean, like you said, why would you purposely do that when that's going to affect you as well?

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

I mean, unless you just really look at it and say, well, you know, it's my sacrifice. I'm willing to do it because it's going to hurt all these other people.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I mean, how mad would you have to be at a whole community to injure yourself in the process? I mean, are you with what I'm saying though? Because again, I am.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

I think you'd have to be pretty mad. Really, really, really mad.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

But yet, when we look at the stuff from the witch trials, the arguments and stuff were pretty petty. Oh, yeah. I think. It was never anything, you know, it wasn't, hey, you know, you you you killed my kid. It's, you know, hey, you you you flirted with my husband, or you flirted with my wife, or, you know, you stole my cow, so I cursed your whole entire land. Are you with me?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

It didn't I am, but we all know that the witch trials, especially in Salem, I don't know about all you know, all the rest of the places, but especially in Salem, it was more about land. It was more about control, it was more about power than it was anything else. So if you didn't like somebody or you wanted their or you know, you feel like, well, I could do more with their land than they're doing, you get rid of them.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

I'm still back to, yeah, but the less people you have in the community, the less chances you got. You cannot be uh again, you you can't be a community of one. I mean, you're gonna die in these times. Well, I'm I'm but I'm still talking about just the logic. The logic that was placed there that witches would go out and harm their own community just for a grudge, that they would place their own lives in jeopardy of survival.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, I don't I don't think that's true.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

You know, the the person down the road's cow. I don't understand the logic there. I've never understood it.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Well, I don't either. You know, and I don't I don't think that's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

So well, I mean, according to the when we look at the rich trials and stuff like that, that's what the majority of the stuff was. It was all petty stuff. Right. Which still don't make no sense. But I'm just me the fact that people fell for the logic of that these people were going out and trying to hurt their own town, which would wind up hurting

Hysteria And Mob Survival Instincts

SPEAKER_02 4:19

them.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, but I mean, in the hysteria of everything, it's not something you really think about.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Well, no, not at the time. But you know, you we're not talking. I know we like to sit here and pretend that these were dumb, ignorant people. A lot of times back in those times. But but they weren't. These were not dumb people, they were smart, intelligent, rational people just like us.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, sure they were, but I mean, people get caught up in the craziness.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Right. And I I guess there's my point there is should pagans nowadays should we be the ones that get caught up in that? Or would we be the people that sit back and go, whoa, wait a minute. Because again, you're still talking about human nature.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Right. And as humans, we have an instinct for survival.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

So But we also have mob mentality, too.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Well, yeah. But I think but I think that ties into survival. If you know, if the if the biggest group of people is doing something, we want to be a part of that because we feel like that's going to help us survive, for lack of a better word.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Right, because we'll we're in a more safer because again, we're with the crowd.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Safety in numbers.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

But I'm just saying, it it it I mean, don't get me wrong. I I have heard stories uh, you know, over the years where there were people during the witch trials that stood up and went, Well, wait a minute, y'all. Something about this don't make sense. And they were pointing out some of the irrational thoughts here. Now, right now, again, people didn't listen, but again, I'm not going to sit here and say it was this complete political move either.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Because let's admit it, most of the people that were probably killed during the witch trials weren't real witches, what we think of now.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Well, no.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So, but now I have to go back.

Do Truly Wicked Witches Exist?

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Now, what about to our original question? Is there such a thing as a real bad witch? Is there a wicked witch of the West? Do you think they exist? Do you think they exist?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

I mean, for me, that's like asking me if unicorns exist.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Well, you want to think of a rhino as a unicorn, yes. Yeah, I mean, I suppose so. You know?

SPEAKER_01 6:52

No, I'm talking about I'm talking about the you know, the mythical unicorn, the the horse.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

I know you are.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

But I don't think so. I mean, I've run across some nasty people.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Bad attitudes, um, just mad at everything. But I don't think even they are up to doing damage, all-out damage to anybody and everybody who crosses their path.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Well, I mean, but that's just like those uh people you run across that are normally the ones that do it, those that are half going around half cocky thinking they know something. And they've only learned a little bit of something.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

And then they go around and thinking they're hot shit and they try to manipulate everybody they meet.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, there are those people.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

So I guess technically that's the closest I think we actually get to the whole bad witch trope. Yeah, those people that do that. And even then, I wouldn't necessarily consider those people actual witches, they're more on the fringes of learned just enough to be dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Long enough to start a cult or conto money or something like that, move on to the next city.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

You know, yeah, I can teach you all about witchcraft for $9.95.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Right. That's not $9.95.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

You know, I think that's the closest we actually come to this.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

I think so, because like I said, I think I think even for even for most of the and I don't really want to call them nasty people, but like I said before, those those people who are just they're always mad about something or mad at somebody, or you know, they just have that bad attitude. I don't most of the time I don't see those people as willing or even motivated enough to do harm or damage to anything and everything that crosses their path.

When Does A Witch Turn Bad?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Well, let's ask this question then. All right, at what point does somebody become a quote unquote bad witch? What the first curse, the second curse, or is it the third one? Or are you with my question? At what point, what is it that actually starts to push you into that category?

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Well, I think at that point it's it's a mental thing, you know? It's like you have a mental break and it just and it's hard to tell what it's hard to tell what triggers it, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

So again, I have to ask that question. Yeah, at what point? Where is that line? What are we actually talking about here?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

I don't think there is a definitive thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

What is I don't think there is either. I don't think anybody's actually defined it. We're just going around not acting moral or ethical. Yeah, I have a problem with that. All right. Unfortunately, no, there's nothing you can do to stop it. They're gonna have to behave and deal with their own consequences.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

It it happens, but yeah, where is that line? When when does it become unethical to listen to someone?

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Well, again, I don't I don't think you can I don't think you can define that.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Because I I I'd sit there, you know, as soon as I caught somebody, you know, lying or not keeping their word or something like that, I'm not gonna really listen to them anymore. I'm gonna kind of walk away and go, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, I'm gonna call them out for it though.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Yeah. But that's not really evil, like what we're talking about here.

Defining Evil Without Lazy Labels

SPEAKER_01 10:46

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

So, you know, I mean, I guess my question is, how would you define evil? I guess would be our first question is what is it? I mean, we use the word like crazy, so but I mean because uh Christians would call us evil, but again, I'm back to some of the stuff we preach and stuff is sort of the same things that they preach, we just don't say it the same way they do.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

You know, I would say evil is kind of like and you're gonna hate me for this. Evil's like Ursula from the Little Mermaid. Just downright conniving and just here, sign this. Don't worry about what it says. Oh, it's nothing.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

You know, I'm not actually in love with the prince. I don't really want to marry the prince, but I want to do it because you can't have that, makes it so you can't have them.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

But I don't know anyone who actually lives their life that way.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

No, I don't either.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Do people get mad at each other? Yes. All right, do people want to have revenge on each other? Yes. Oh, yeah, all the time. I don't see behavior like this. I don't see anybody out there. I cursed them because they were there.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

What? Right. Well, why'd you do that? Just because.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Just because. I could. I mean, again, this is the mindset of what we're supposed to believe evil is. That it really that it has no other agenda but destruction. I mean, even when we look at like classic cases like, you know, Lucifer or the devil, it still don't make no sense. You you're deceiving us from what? And why we're doing and why? What's what's the real reason? Where's what's the real motivation behind this? What's the purpose? Why? And because even then that still don't make no sense to me because there's not it's the whole story. Basically, it sounds like to me, I have daddy issues.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

I'm bringing the whole world down with me. That makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, that's not a reason.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

That's not a reason. That's an excuse.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Well, and I think ultimately that's what it comes down to. There really are no reasons for anything, they're just excuses.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

You really think so?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Well, I mean, when you when you ask people why why they do things or why did they think this way, nine times out of ten with a hero in their own story, right? And whatever they're giving you is just it's an excuse for believing that way or acting out that way. It's um I mean there are exceptions to that rule, and well, I don't even know if it's a rule, but there are exceptions to that, for sure. You know, if you can give me a valid reason for something, then I'll take it. And yes, that's from my perspective. I'm I'm judging what's valid and what's not.

Why Pure Evil Makes No Sense

SPEAKER_02 14:13

If we had this evil in the world, like they keep on talking about, where's our Dr. Evil?

unknown 14:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Are you gonna try to tell me somebody has not okay, besides Hitler, try to come up and try to take over the world? What country hasn't tried to do that at some point? So ignoring conquering the world, but I mean, again, I've never heard of a Dr. Evil putting a laser on the moon and threatening to blow up the whole earth if we don't give them all the money in the world.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

No.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Which I'm sort of looking at the guy going, Well, how does this make sense? Because you'll be killing yourself too.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Just I just well, I'm sure there's uh there's some sort of uh escape plan there.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

So yeah, something. Like all that money's gonna make a whole lot of difference then now.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I mean Well, it could.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

But I mean, but we don't have people like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

No, we don't.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

I mean, uh again, we yes, we have what we consider bad people in the world, and that they do, and we perceive them as doing bad things, but that really depends on which side of the uh conflict you're on at

Right And Wrong Depend On Sides

SPEAKER_02 15:20

the time.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Well, yeah, and that goes that goes back to what we teach in class, which just like you said, it depends on what side of the river you're on.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

On what's wrong or right.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Because from from my side, if you build that dam, you may be cutting off my water supply.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Might be.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

But if I'm on the other side, building that dam may be helping my crops, or it might be flooding your crops completely. Right. Like I said, it may be helping my crops, maybe you know, cutting off some of that water so it doesn't flood.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Where do we draw that line? Where do we make it? Because again, don't get

Protest Slogans Versus Real Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_02 16:01

me wrong. When I was when I sit here and say this, I don't have a problem with people going out protesting and stuff, but you protest this stuff, and then when people ask you questions like this, y'all look, they look at you like they got deer caught in a headlight. Like, what are you gonna do about this? You know, they'll they'll come out and they'll go, Oh, we need to stop using oil. Okay, what about all these people who need medications that need to be safe refrigerated? We need power to generate from the coal and the gas and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well, then if we're Are you just gonna let them die? Well, and then take it one step further. If we're gonna stop using oil, then that means your clothes don't get manufactured.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

No.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

So what are we gonna do? Just everybody walk around naked all the time?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Well, again, well, again, what about the signs you made? And there goes your cell phone, there goes your computer, there goes the internet, there goes your AI.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yep. So, how far are you willing to take it if you want to stop, you know, whatever it is.

Disaster Skills And Nature Connection

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Because let me let me let me remind everybody, okay? Katrina hit, and how many people died in the aftermath of that because people did not know what in the world to do without power?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

I hate to be that way. Yeah, majority of these catastrophes and stuff like that is because people don't know what to do during a catastrophe and how to actually take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

The catastrophe, but the catastrophe, I believe the majority of Americans are actually quite easily can get a went round, all right? I'm sorry, if I lived in Tornado Alley, me dealing with a tornado would probably be another Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Living here in North Carolina, how often do we get hurricanes?

SPEAKER_01 17:46

I mean, not often, but they do happen.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

They do have they happen enough to where we know what to do and we don't panic, but we don't freak out either.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

So Yeah. Well, and I think I think that's something that especially as well, I say especially as pagans, but I think that's something that we need to get back to is it doesn't matter where you live, um, you need to get back in touch with with nature and all of that and figure out what am I gonna do if disaster hits. Yeah, how how am I gonna survive? Start learning your techniques, start learning how to survive.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Quit worrying about some big bat over the hill and worry more about that, and I think you'd be better off than thinking there's something coming over the hill.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Well, and if you do that, look at it as um look at it as a learning experience. You're gonna put yourself in more in touch with nature, which is kind of our goal anyway, right? I mean, we're a nature religion.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So by learning how to survive and learning how to do these things on a more rugged framework.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Or doing yourself, there's a lot to be learnt there about nature and what in the world's going on there.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Right.

Balance Between Destruction And Creation

SPEAKER_02 19:16

But I'm still back to this. We have this weird humanity in general, I think has this weird concept of evil, and it's not what we think it is.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Right. No, no, it's definitely not what we think it is.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

You know, that that's just like, you know, that we easily can imagine something that's pure good to some extent, but we have a hard time imagining pure evil. I mean, the motivation behind it makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Right. You know, it's it defies it defies human logic.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

The way I'm looking at it is if we're going to look at these in the purest essence, evil is nothing more than just destruction for destruction's sake. Are you are you with me? It it does nothing else but destroy just to destroy. But then that means that you would also have to put it this way that the light half or the other side of that would be creation just for creation. As you wind up with the platypus.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Oh well, I was gonna say again, kind of defies logic.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Kind of defies logic. Because you can't, because here's the sad part is is we we sit there and we see this other side as bad, but you can't have one without the other.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Because if you're just creating without destroying, all you're gonna do is just wind up with a crowded room that nobody can do anything in.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Absolutely. Yeah, it's uh it's back to the whole balance thing that we always talk about.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Oh, us talk about balance? No, no.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

No, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I I spoke wrong.

Closing And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_02 20:52

All right, I think I'm ready for some coffee.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

All right. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing fires. And so it is the end of our days, to walk with me till morning break. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning break.