Sorry Ug The Tribe Has A Problem

In this episode, we dive into long‑standing misconceptions about ancient pagan sacrifice, challenging the assumption that every ritualized death in the archaeological record represents intentional religious killing. They explore how mercy killings, executions, and survival‑driven decisions could easily resemble ritual sacrifice, especially in cultures where ceremony permeated daily life. With only bones and limited contextual evidence, the conversation highlights how modern interpretations often oversimplify or sensationalize pagan practices, creating distorted narratives that ignore nuance and historical reality.

In the second half, the episode shifts to the Wheel of the Year, questioning the accuracy of commonly shared diagrams. We explain how many popular versions actually reflect the southern hemisphere’s seasonal pattern rather than the northern hemisphere’s. By breaking down solstices, equinoxes, and Earth’s tilt, we try to clarify why Sabbat placement matters and how misunderstanding celestial mechanics leads to widespread confusion. This segment offers a grounded, astronomy‑based correction that helps practitioners align their celebrations with the proper seasonal cycle.

Join us on
Discord:  https://discord.gg/MdcMwqUjPZ
Facebook: (7) Life Temple and Seminary | Facebook

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to

Welcome And How To Support

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Pagan Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials. So what's on your mind today?

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Well,

Sorting Fact From Accusation

SPEAKER_03 0:27

I've actually been watching some things and and the whole encusing of pagans of, you know, in the old days of sacrificing humans left and right everywhere. It just Okay. There's some things about it that sort of bothers me.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Bothers you?

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Alright, let's let's get into it a little bit then.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Alright. Well, first of all, I'm not saying human sacrifices did not happen.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

All right. Again, yes, they happened. I just don't think they're as widespread as some of the reports we get.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Well, I don't think so either. I mean, I know in some civilizations like the Mayan cultures, we know that there were human sacrifices.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Right. They wrote about them and explained them and the whole nine yards. That I again I'm back to I I completely understand this actually happened. Right. All right. My problem is the way it's sometimes worded by other religions about our sacrifices. Alright. You know, oh, they were killing babies and whole nine yards. And I'm sorry, even in some of their tech in some of these other religions' texts, they're doing the exact same thing about sacrificing babies and other things too.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Right. There were some instances where that was included, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Alright. But again, it's always made out like pagans did it. So here's my question. How

Sacrifice Versus Mercy Versus Execution

SPEAKER_03 1:45

do we know the difference between a sacrifice, a mercy killing, and an execution?

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

Are you with what I'm saying here? Because again, if it's a mercy killing, again, what we're talking about is, you know, either something, either a baby's sick or got injured or something like that, and or there's no food or whatever. A mercy killing would look almost like a ritual sacrifice. If you're going to commit a fantasy, all right, kill a baby because, well, we're out of food or whatever, you would probably do it with some ritual garb and stuff like that, because you want the passing, you want them to be accepted on the other side to be better off. So there would be some ritual there besides just it not like you're just throwing out the trash.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, yeah, I could totally see that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Are you with what I'm saying? So again, are all the sacrifices that they claim to find around the world, are they actually all sacrifices?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Well, probably not. I mean, i if we look at it just like you said, I mean, there are instances where it's uh where it's more of a mercy killing. It's whoever it is is not gonna survive the winter, could be an elder, right? You know, could be a newborn baby, um, could be livestock, um, it could be anything, but could be if they're not gonna survive the winter, it all it's gonna do is put an extra strain on the tribe.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Why wouldn't you eliminate that? Well, I mean logically speaking, why wouldn't you do that?

SPEAKER_03 3:25

Well, that's just like everybody assuming that, hey, well, they found the most greatest warrior, then they sacrifice them. That don't make sense to me either. You know, you would want your greatest warrior to live long enough to at least have some kids. Right. I mean Yeah. So again, hopefully pass on those genetics. Joe's genetics and that and that training and uh what he's learnt and all that to their kids. Sacrificing your best warriors while you're in the middle of a war or something to please the gods to help them return the doesn't make no sense because you're sort of shooting yourself in the foot.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah. I I understand that you know some cultures might have done this during extreme measures, as if we have no other way of thinking about how in the world to do this famine, plague, the whole world falling apart. Right. To them. And I I can understand maybe sacrificing the best warrior or whatever, but But not during time of war. Not during time of war, not during a time of peace, not just because, well, it's a Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Right. But to me, I mean, to me, that would be kind of like okay, so if we if we look at it, you know, the the king and the land were entwined with each other, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Well, yeah, according to Celtic mythology.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Right, and so if if the king was prospering, so the land prospered.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Right? You wouldn't kill the king during a prosperous time because then your land's gonna go to hell.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Right. I mean, you you're you're coming off the land too.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

So why would you do that?

SPEAKER_03 4:56

I mean, and that's just for them to take a message directly to the gods on the other side to come and actually help. Right. Is the idea behind this.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

So why why would you do that?

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Why? I mean, I understand the logic, and I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm just still saying it would have to be something. I mean it's not like our ancestors did not know how to survive. I mean, they've been doing it for for quite a number of years now. I mean So again, I I I I have a problem with this.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Well, I

What Sacrifice Means In Practice

SPEAKER_01 5:31

do too. Um my problem is the way we view sacrifice. I don't know, and I can't say for certainty. We don't have, as far as I know, we don't have any archaeological evidence to support this. But the way I view sacrifice now is to make holy.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

So if I'm sacrificing something, I'm making it holy before the gods. Why would I just randomly do that?

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Well, there's also two different types of sacrifice. What we're talking about, what again in the pagan community, the majority of us are used to an idea of a sacrifice to where, yes, we might use a chicken during a ritual or something, and especially in some voodoo practices and stuff like this, where in the world the chicken winds up being killed or sacrificed during the ritual. Yeah. But it's normally taken away real fast and prepped for dinner.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Right. But no, I'm I'm I'm talking I'm going back to the whole sacrificing like the warrior or sacrificing your you know your baby because it's not gonna make it through the winter. To me, you're doing that for a purpose, and it is to make holy, it's to make something holy. Like you're sacrificing that warrior to make future generations better, right? Better warriors. Right? Or you're sacrificing the baby to make to make that sacrifice. It's a holy sacrifice because it's it's for the betterment of the tribe.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Right. But again, it it again, the way it's told, the way we hear it. I mean, I I'm sorry, it I I have to ask, I mean, again, corporate punishment, I mean, how do we know what the difference is? I mean, just I mean, because they didn't put the body back, you know, they might have put that disact the head and still buried it with the body and all this. Are we sure that was a sacrifice and not corporate punishment?

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Corporal punishment, yeah. I mean, are you are you with what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Are we sure about that?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Well, no, because again, we don't have any archaeological evidence. There's no records to support any of those theories.

When Ritual Looks Like Proof

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Because at the at the end of the day, because I want to bring this up, for us to not see rituals done during no matter what this was, doesn't make any sense to me. Because again, people back then they did a ritual for everything. Yeah, it was part of their mentality. If we didn't do this, it wouldn't go right, and all this. Right. So again, each one of these, while two of these, what we're talking about, aren't real sacrifices, but they would still show what most people would consider signs of a ritual sacrifice.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Right, because there would still be ritual behind it.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

Right. So again, I this is where I have a problem. Are we actually looking at as many sacrifices as we are, or are we looking at something else?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Well, I mean, even even today, if we look at it, people on death row, if they're gonna go be electrocuted or or they're getting, you know, the injection, lethal injection, whatever, they get a last meal.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

That in and of itself is a ritual that we perform all the time to prisoners to prisoners on death row.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

It's a ritual. So even then, yeah, what why wouldn't you expect some ritual to be performed before executing someone?

SPEAKER_03 8:49

Because well, the reason I bring this up is because when I was looking this up and trying to get and I was nosing around about this because I got curious, was is because everybody kept on saying, well, the reason they're sacrificed is because we see signs of ritual. And I'm sitting back going, well, is it really No. But you're you're with what I'm saying. Because you say that, all right, but would it really? Would I would want to do a ceremony if I had to sacrifice my baby to so the whole tribal live? Right. So I don't have to sit there and watch my kid starve to death. I mean, it's one thing if it's the middle of winter when this happens, setting it out for the elements is one thing, but I don't know if I would want to sit my baby out in the middle of spring or something where the wolves would be tearing it apart instead. Right. That don't I I'd would you rather bash his head in and quickly and bury it and instead of leaving it for the elements. Yeah. Are you with what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. I mean, as a parent, I I could see that if I didn't have any other choice, you know, especially if the enemies are, you know, banging at my cave door about to come in and rape all the women and kill everybody and you know, I I could see a parent sitting there doing that. I they they don't want their kids to go through that horror before being killed.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah. I mean it's is it barbaric, yes. But uh I mean we're we're talking about a time in history when things were barbaric.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Right. We're we're we're talking about a time in the world where I I'm sorry, you got the flu, you were probably gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

There's a good chance, I mean.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

And there was probably a good chance that they were just gonna execute you to so that the you didn't use up valuable resources. Resources because they knew you weren't gonna survive.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Right. So again, so I I have a problem where people keep on going well, they sacrifice this, and they w where's your proof?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

I mean, I could see I could see where it could be counted as a sacrifice, but I don't think d surely not everything was a sacrifice.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

I mean, there were laws when laws get broken, people get executed. That's not a sacrifice. That's that's corporate punishment. That's corporal punishment. That's you know You know.

SPEAKER_03 11:07

Well, I mean, again, banishing people from the tribe was basically signing the death warrant because you're out there alone. Nobody can survive out in the wilderness by themselves. Right. Especially back in these days.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Again, not a sacrifice, not a sacrifice, corporate punishment.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

I I'm sorry that they died and they couldn't survive on their own, but they can't stay in the tribe. Right. When you have people like that in tribes, you trust me, you feel their effects a whole lot more than living in a big city or something like that that where you got and it don't really affect you.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

So are we really thinking about all this correctly? Probably not. So that's the only thing I bring up. That's the only reason I bring this up because I I it sort of gives me the wheelies the wrong way. Because again, w when we talk about sacrifices now, we're we're talking about things that are probably gonna be eaten. Right. Where other religions, for some reason, we're gonna sacrifice something, we have to burn the carcage to where there's nothing left whatsoever.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

That that seems more of a waste to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I mean, uh yeah, I mean, I would think if we're gonna sacrifice an animal which we don't, but you know, whatever. If we were going to, I would think that it would be more along the lines of you slaughter the animal in a ritual. Right. And then it gets prepped. Right. And then it the food the meat will either get cured or it goes on to the fire and it's a you know in a kettle or whatever, and it gets cooked and then it's eaten.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Because it's been blessed.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Well well, again, because here here here's probably what these people did. There's probably a they probably do a ritual before going to hunt. Then they catch something. There probably a ritual for when they actually catch something. Yes. Then when they bring it back and slaughter it, there's probably another ritual. Yes. I mean, again, because it it's this concept of why people pray before meals. The people the the reason they you we pray before meals is to keep us from getting sick from food poisoning. Because back in the day, food poisoning was quite common. Right. Because they didn't have the safety prep and stuff we know now.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Right. Food preparation was not what it is now.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

No, no, no. It was done to prevent you, it was done as a preventative thing to Right. So again, this is how these people thought about rituals and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

That this would this would be the equivalent of us taking airborne.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Yeah. And I don't think people understand that anymore. How these how we used to think in the past on this. When we sit there and we say our religion was was their life. That all these things had to be done. If not, you're gonna get sick or you could get sick or Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

This this wasn't just something like a lot of religion is for a lot of people is for now, well, nowadays, where it's something we do once a month, or we do it once or twice a week, or whatever. For them, it was it's just like you said, it was all it was intertwined with daily life.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

It was if if it wasn't done, this would be like you not taking your vitamins or not having. It's like you getting up in the morning and going to work without your coffee. Right. Or your drink or whatever that you had first thing in the morning. Right. As soon as that happens, your day's messed up. Right. Anybody that had to go to the doctor and get blood work done knows exactly what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

That whole day is just sort of It's off because you've had to fast and you've had no coffee.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Your whole your your your your morning ritual was disturbed. Right, it's been interrupted. So the rest of the day don't feel right. Right. This is the same thing for these people. It wasn't any different. If we didn't do it, how can I put it's it's Mars on retrograde, or what is it?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Mercury retrograde.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Mercury retrograde. All right, I didn't do my prayers this morning. I forgot to do my incense. I forgot to to to tell the ancestors to watch over me today, so therefore I'm gonna have a bad day.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

This and I know we find this silly, but we honestly believe this.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah, and I mean honestly, it's it it's one of those things. If you if you look at it when you if you look at it this way, when you do something on a regular basis, just like we've been saying, and I know it feels like we're running around in circles, but when you do it on a regular basis, it's it goes beyond being a habit. Right. It becomes a part of your day, it becomes a part of everything that you do.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Right. It is it's like getting a tooth pulled or something like that, and you're right.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

And you spend time with your tongue just up in that empty spot, you know. For no reason. No reason at all.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

You you really shouldn't be doing it anyway, but we all do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Right, we all do it. All right. So, you know, I mean, it's just I don't know, it's just so weird to think that people can't grasp this concept.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Well, the wrong reason I bring this up is because this is why I think there would be ritual for these other things too.

Bones Can Not Tell Intent

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Well, sure, yeah. If we're doing rituals and certain things throughout the day for this, why wouldn't we do the same thing here?

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

Again, that so they're all gonna wind up looking alike, they're all gonna look like, you know, people ritual killings, but we really don't know the intent behind what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Right. Again, we don't have records for that. We don't have archaeological evidence. All we have is bones.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

And we're making some assumption there on what in the world's going on.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Right, which can be dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

All right. Now again, I I'm not saying that archaeologists don't know what they're doing and all this, and they got a good guess, but But they do make assumptions. They they there are some things I think they make a large assumption zone. You know, but again, uh they probably have to in their field.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

I mean Well, and I get that, but you know, do you know what they say about assuming? Yeah. So that's why I have a problem with this. You know, when you speculate, you're potentially giving out wrong information. And I think you yeah, I think instead of just spewing out things like, oh, well, you know, oh, they did all these ritual sacrifices, yeah. Why don't you turn around and say, we don't know if these were all ritual sacrifices.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

But we can tell we we can theorize by the evidence that we found that there was ritual involved.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Right. Because I I think when I was looking this up, I I d what I had found is there's only like 10% of the viruses out there that can actually show up in your bones.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

So we can't tell what babies were sick with measles, chicken pox, and stuff necessarily, and the parents thought the baby was going to die and was suffering to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Right. Because you gotta figure at that time there were no treatments for a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

No. I mean, there were no really good, there wasn't necessarily good herbalists that they were sort of still in that process of not knowing and half putting stuff together sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

I mean, yeah, well, I I think as far as that aspect goes, I think they were it was a lot of trial and error.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I mean, it's what our ancestors did when they, you know, came to the mountains of North Carolina. A lot of trial and error. It was a lot of trial and error because it was all new stuff to work with, you know? It's it's not the stuff they had in Europe.

SPEAKER_03 18:42

So again, again, it's keeping your mind in those when we're talking about this. I I I that's the only question I had about all this is are we sure they're actually all really human quote unquote sacrifices for some religious context, or were they mercy killings or possibly um capital punishment?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah. Well, again, it's uh we can't we can't know that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

No, but it is, I mean, it's not like they didn't do these activities back then, too. So they had to.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I mean any type of civilization d you have to have these things in place.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Well, I mean, again, let's pick on uh let's pick up Ug. All right. I mean, Ug got hurt. I mean, Ug went out and tried to, you know, get a wildebeest and wound up tackling with a tiger or something, right? And now he's in the cave screaming for two days, causing every animal in the every predator to come there to the cave. Right. Okay, now we have a bigger problem. What do we do about Ug?

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Do we let Ug just sit there and keep on going on and on for days or weeks, possibly dine, or do we take a rock to them and then set them outside and let the animal so they'll go away.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Right. Take them far away and just let the animals have them. Have them. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

So again, gotta ask. Sorry, Ug. Sorry, Ug. We love you. I'm ready for some coffee. Let's talk

Why The Wheel Of The Year Seems Wrong

SPEAKER_03 20:14

about the will of the year.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Alright.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Anything else?

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Actually, I do. Okay. Of course I do. Come on. Say it. When Don I have an issue. Okay, well, well, first of all, let's let's do this. All right. I think the will of the year that we see all over the place that you would pull up online is wrong. Okay. And I'm going to start this off, first of all, by saying, let's let's let's break this circle apart like we normally do, okay? Where we have our grands and we have our lessers separate, right? Right. The way it's set up, the way we see this, all right. The grands are set up for the southern hemisphere, not the northern hemisphere.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

You mean on the on the way it's depicted?

SPEAKER_03 21:05

On the way it's depicted on the Wheel of the Year.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yeah, the majority of the majority of the ones that we see. I'm yeah, I'm looking and I see two different ones that are floating around. And it's uh well, it's um one with uh soin, beltane, lunasa, and embolk as the quarters. And then there's we don't do that, we don't do that. We we put them on the cross quarters. And then there's and then there's the one that has um has them on the cross quarters, but soin is in the northwest.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Northwest. And again, that is that one right there is for the southern hemisphere. Here's the reason why. Let's take a moment and look at the lessers, alright? The lessers are correct. Okay? Why are they correct? Where you have the winter solstice. In the south, and you have the summer solstice in the north, and you have the equinoxes on on the north, uh, I mean on the east and west, right? Right. Because these things, okay, because again, the summer solstice is when the sun is at its farthest point away from the earth, right? And that is the summer solstice, that is the summer for the northern hemisphere, not the southern hemisphere. All right, when the northern hemisphere is in winter and we're going into the winter solstice, the sun is at its closest point to the earth. Yes. Before everybody gets confused, that's because of the tilt of the earth, which is caused by the moon. Right. All right.

Solstices Are About Sun Distance

SPEAKER_03 22:47

The moon is the reason we have the four seasons. The moon is associated with the goddess. So therefore, the goddess is the reason for the season changes. Right. Pretty simple, right? You would think. Well, here's my point, though. The reason I'm going through all this is because when does the southern hemisphere experience winter? Technically, it is the after, it is the after the summer equinox, right before the summer solstice when the sun is at its father's point from the earth. That's when they're having their winter. Because remember, Salwin and the Grands are seasonal celebrations.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

All right. That happens for the southern hemisphere after the summer equinox, but before the summer solstice, which puts it in the northwest corner.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It's our summer solstice, but it's their winter solstice.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

It's their winter solstice.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

And it's just the way you're saying it, just like they're having they're having winter in the middle of summer.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Summer, right. Hence the reason why I kept on sitting here saying, well, that's the reason why I keep on sitting here saying, and I stated that. I'm looking at the winter solstice as when the sun is at the closest point to the earth, not winter itself. Summer solstice is when the sun is the farthest away from the earth. But wouldn't it not necessarily summer?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

I was I was just gonna say, wouldn't it be it's furthest from the earth for the northern hemisphere and closest for the southern because of the tilt? No.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

No. No, because we're talking about the distance between the earth and the sun as planetary bodies.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

So we're still having so you're not talking continents, right? So you're saying we're still having this, and this is this is the confusion that a lot of people have, and that's why I'm covering this, is that it's basic it's is the same solstice, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:03

It's the same solstice.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

They're calling reason we were calling it different because of their weather at that time.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Well, again, the that the lessers were made for the northern hemisphere. Right. That part of the circle is correct for the northern hemisphere. It will also be correct for the southern hemisphere. They're just calling it the wrong names.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Okay. In other words, we should not really, we probably should not be calling it the summer solstice and the winter solstice. It really just should be something else, but it's but it's really the point, it has nothing to do with the season, it has to do how far away the sun is from the earth. Right. Hence the reason why in the world they don't change, because the earth experienced both of these things all at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

But well, see, here's the problem. When does the northern hemisphere experience winter? When does our winter start?

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Our winter starts in what, like November. It starts over November.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

No,

Where Samhain Sits In The North

SPEAKER_03 26:08

no, it starts after the autumn equinox and before the winter solstice. Which puts it in the uh southeast corner to start the calendar in the northern hemisphere. That's where Salwin should be. Right. And then all the other ones follow suit. Right. But again, we're using a we again with that main picture that we see is for the southern hemisphere, not the northern.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, right, which is why it's opposite of the way we celebrate things.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Right. I hope that made sense because that is so confusing.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

I hope it did too, but we've probably just confused the hell out of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Oh god, I know. Well, sitting there trying to explain to people that in the northern hemisphere, when it's winter time, the sun and the earth are at its closest point.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Well, right, and here's the thing the reason we have an issue with this is because for us in the northern hemisphere, salwin is always in the southeast. Right. And that's our gateway.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Well, at least it should be.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Right. That's but I mean that's our gateway. Like when we cast circle, that's where Salwin is for us.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Right. Well, again, it well, it's there because again, this is where the time period is. It happens between these two celestial events, right? Just like it does for the southern hemisphere, it happens during those two celestial events on the opposite side.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Right. But it's uh it's just like the water in the toilets, everything's opposite.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Everything's opposite. I mean, this is nothing more than the same thing, but again, we all we all sit back and pretend like that that one from the southern for the southern uh hemisphere is right for the whole entire planet, and we don't pretend like that isn't a little play there.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

I mean, because technically, technically that the light that we lose going into winter doesn't actually go nowhere, it just moves to the southern hemisphere. Right. Their days get longer where our days get shorter. Right. And make it even worse, like I said, I think what makes this all harder to keep in everybody's head is that we have the summer solstice and the winter solstice and the equinox. Because those are and the equino and the autumn and the spring equinoxes. Right. When we start putting those seasons on them things, it it it sort of messes us up when we're talking about this because the seasons are actually caused by the tilt of the earth, which is caused by the moon.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Right. I mean, you got to think about it in September for the Northern Hemisphere, that's when we're getting the fall or autumnal equinox. But for the southern hemisphere, they're getting spring.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

They're getting yeah, they're getting spring.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

For them, it's a spring equinox. You know, when we're having spring, they're getting fall. Well, well, again, just call it something different.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

I could go ahead and argue this as far as yes, even the letters, you might be able to, if you flip the names, it would make it easier. You just got to keep in mind of the position of the sun during the solstice and the equinoxes and what they actually represent, and that it's planet wide.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

You know, it's just it it just always drives my students of the wild when you sit there and try to explain to them, yes, when winter happens, the sun and the earth are actually at the closest point for us. And to sit there and watch their little brains turn into mud and roll out their ears and go, Stop. Right. It makes sense. Well, I mean, it it is one of those things that are a little, it's not what you would expect it to be. So when you learn it, you're like, uh, no, that don't sound very intuition. Right. Not really. I mean no. So have I have I less confused you? Because I I have a feeling if I less confuse you.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Well, no, it's it's just that when you first started things out, you know, that's the that's the confusion that everybody experiences. So I was just trying, I was trying to get it a little more clear.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

No, no, that that's fine. All right. And let me just remind people for the for the southern hemisphere, they have their win their winter starts after our spring equinox and but before the summer solstice for us. Right. Which sounds really strange coming out of your mouth.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Well, an easier way to put that is okay, around March, they are going into winter. They're winter. Around September, they are going into summer. Right. It's completely opposite from us. It's as simple as that. Where it's confused is are the names when we put the names. When you put the names in place and all that other stuff, and it's yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

And you start to say it, it doesn't make no sense.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Right. And even if you know, even if you call it the autonomo equinox, it's not autumn for them.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

I know. Now are you ready for some coffee?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah.

Closing And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Pegan Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life TempleSeminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

We travel down this trodden path, the maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a steel blazing pyres. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks. And so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning breaks.