Beyond Wicca 101: Real Growth

in this episode of Pagan Coffee Talk, we dive into a growing issue within modern pagan and witchcraft communities: the widespread feeling of stagnation among practitioners. We explore why so many people feel stuck in their spiritual path, pointing to a lack of personal belief clarity, overreliance on beginner material, and the endless recycling of Wicca‑101 content across books, videos, and social media. This cycle keeps practitioners in shallow waters instead of encouraging real growth.

Throughout the discussion, we challenge the community to move beyond surface‑level content and into deeper, more meaningful practice. We highlight the importance of self‑reflection, balanced work, personal responsibility, and the courage to stand firmly in one’s beliefs. We also emphasize that true advancement requires effort, questioning, and engagement with substantial material rather than constant consumption of spell‑jar videos and beginner guides.

Ultimately, this episode calls for a cultural shift within pagan spaces—one that embraces challenge, fosters genuine learning, and encourages practitioners to “get their heads out of the sand” and step into the deeper, more transformative aspects of the craft. It’s a direct, honest conversation aimed at inspiring growth, authenticity, and a return to meaningful practice.

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Transcript

Welcome And Quick Support Ask

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to Taking Coffee Talk. If you enjoy our content, please consider donating and following our socials.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Alright,

Why Pagan Practice Feels Stuck

SPEAKER_02 0:25

so we're seeing in the online communities and whatnot where people just continuously keep saying they feel like they're stuck in their practice or it's stagnant and they don't know what to do about it.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

And they don't actually understand what's going on here.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Right. And they don't know how to get out of it and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Well, I I have an idea what the problem is here. What what do you think the problem is?

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Well, I think it's um, you know, honestly, I don't know. I think it's probably got something to do with people just not knowing exactly what they want to do with their practice.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

That's probably got part of it. Uh, you know, again, the biggest part I think the problem is, is nobody actually knows what

Write Down What You Believe

SPEAKER_03 1:15

they believe. Well, there's that too, yeah. All right, all right. I mean, well, I think the first one of the first assignments I got from Lori Minn was hey, go find your piece of paper, write it today, write up at the top, today I believe, and start writing. Then go back and read it and see what you think then.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Well, and you know, that's that's something we tell our students to do. Um, and anytime somebody comes to us with, you know, they don't know where to start or they don't know how to get involved or whatever, it's one of the first things we tell them to do is, and we've said it here many, many times. Just start start with a journal, start with a book, piece of paper.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

I think there's another problem on top of all of this, and it's the same problem I remember running into

The Endless Loop Of 101 Content

SPEAKER_03 2:05

years ago. All right, when first got out on my own, and I didn't have to worry about parents breathing down my neck. So, of course, I go trotting out to the local metaphysics shop, right? Right. Pick up Scott Cunningham's book on Guide to a Solitary Practitioner. I was all excited and all this, and read the whole entire book. Then I found out he came out with an advanced book for a solitary practitioner.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

An advanced guide. Oh, I was so excited until I read it.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Until you read it.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Come to find out, is the same information that was in the first book just reworded slightly different. It was just a rehashing of the basic 101 info.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Why do you think that happens? Why do why do you think that they're doing that in books?

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Well, there's a problem when all this started, and when I say this, a lot of people are going to get a little upset because there's going to be some stuff here that's going to lead down other avenues. But the problem was Scott Cunningham was never initiated. A lot of these people that wrote these books were never initiated.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

In other words, they know nothing else but the 101 books. The stuff to make you drive a little bit farther is the conversations you have with your elders.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Right. I guess I'm just wondering why. If all you're gonna do is regurgitate information, maybe present it a little bit differently, why are you even bothering to put out a book and call it advanced?

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Well, uh money. I'm sorry, to me, this is the money scam. This to me is the whole entire real gatekeeping because people are too busy here by my Wicca 101 book. Buy my 101 book.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

That's all you hear these people say. And if you go listen to their videos, that's all they're going to they repeatedly go over the same information over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

This is an argument we've had before. How many times do we need to have an unboxing video? How many times do we have to listen to another spell jar? How many times do we have to listen to another podcast about just doing spells? Well, I guess. How many more videos? Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. I was just gonna say, and how many Go ahead? But I no, it's just me on my soapbox, and I'd rather get off of it.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

All right. Well, then let me ask you this. Why why do you think so many people are recycling the same basic concepts instead of advancing into the deeper material or into stuff, no, maybe not deeper material, but stuff that's got more substance to it.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Well, again, that requires effort. We've talked before that there's a point in craft, there's a point in all of this where you have to start doing the work. We can't do it for you. You have to start working with some of these concepts and start asking deeper questions.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

But these these people, they I mean, they keep saying that that's what they're doing, but then it's just again, it's just regurgitated information.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Regurgitated the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah, and it's just basic concepts, it's nothing, uh, it's nothing substantial.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Well, let's ask the questions like I sort of asked when I kept on saying this, going, okay, nobody seems

Boredom Means Lean In Deeper

SPEAKER_03 5:50

to have an answer. Why I heard the whole entire, well, the the grands are the grands because, well, the Celts followed them for okay, but that don't explain why they're more important than the lessers to the Celts. It wasn't like they didn't know both when Rome showed up. They and again, the time thing is not enough for me. So there was a little bit. So I asked, is there a little bit more there? Actually, there's several answers about why in the world they're grands, besides they came first. I never hear anybody talk about that. No, I never hear anybody talk about the the arguments about why they are and where we place them on the wheel of the year. I never hear anything about anybody talking about these concepts that we actually have to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Whatsoever. I mean, it just it baffles me.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Well, it does me too.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

You know, I mean, how many hecatate videos do you really need to listen to before you understand hecatate?

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Well, let me ask you this. But in your opinion, at what point should any practitioner be expected to move on beyond the basic concepts?

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Is there a problem? I'm sorry, if you're if you're getting bored and stuck and you're and your religion isn't doing anything for you, and you feel like you need to step away from it, there's a problem. I hear the same conversations over and over again. Oh, my religion isn't doing good. Maybe I should take a break. What? That's when you're supposed to lean farther into your religion.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

So you think that is the turning point when people say they're the turning point to become stagnant and they're just not happy with it. That's the turning point, that's when you should delve deeper into things of more substance.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Right. It don't make no sense to me. So again, we we we we get mad because these people leave the craft and decide to go and become Christian again, but yeah, what are we actually offering them? You go out on YouTube and you listen to all these people, they're still doing just the 101 info. I listened to one woman who sat there and was touting, oh, I got 35 years, and you know what? I'm only teaching the 101 stuff.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

I haven't tried to go out, I haven't argued anything about ethics, morals, I haven't done anything on how in the world to actually control your own meditations and get away from all everybody else's. I haven't taught you one thing about you being an actual individual.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Well, see, uh that's part of the problem because I don't see any of these people as teachers. No, they're they're content creators, they're content creators and they're having one-way conversations.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And all they're doing is repeating the same thing over and over again, just slightly different. It's always the same conversations. Oh, there's gatekeeping. Do you initiate? Do you not initiate? Do you can we get a little bit deeper?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Well, and then I all right. What when it comes to that, all right, when it's when they scream all the gatekeeping information, what I find funny, and this is

Teachers Versus Content Creators

SPEAKER_02 9:20

probably off topic, if it is, just direct the conversation somewhere else.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

But it's on my mind. What I find funny, and I do say funny because it's it's strange, it's weird, that they scream that people are gatekeeping information, right? And then they want all this stuff for free, but then they find a place online that's selling a course, and they're willing to go pay for that course while at the same time demanding free information from everybody else.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

I mean, because well again, at one point I got I got a wild hair at my butt, and we decided, I decided to start some class to supposedly get a bachelor's degree in craft paganism.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

A metaphysical field, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

A metaphysical field. And I had to quit doing it because it was that stupid. The information was so basic, it was so dumb. It was so, it was anything I could find out online for free, but yet I'm paying a fortune for it for a piece of paper that might be good or might not be good as a d as a degree. Right. So what are we doing here? Are we really pushing, are we really pushing these concepts? Are we really asking people to actually start to think? I mean, because again, we've argued this before. I I sit back and I go, okay, our first degree course is just to teach you how to operate inside our temple.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Our traditions, why we believe the way we believe, and why we do the things we do. And second degree is where you actually start learning more of how to be an actual priest or a priestess. I'm just being honest here. Right. Third degree is nothing more than you demonstrating or repeatedly showing you know how to use this information correctly to help other people.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Right. Again, we've we've said this many times on the podcast. I mean, it's just the way we have.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

But again, most temples I know, this is how they operate. But yet, when we go out into the bigger community there, everybody's still stuck on Wicca 101. This is just how to practice. When are these people going to start making podcasts where it's a little bit more challenging? I can go out and find 50 videos on meditation, not ours, that explain to you which which good walkthrough meditations there are and all this other stuff. And but nobody sitting there going, here's how you meditate without any of that stuff. This is how you do it. If you're gonna be just sitting out there meditating by yourself in the middle of a field with no headset on.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Here, we're gonna teach you how to do it yourself.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Right. Just the sounds of nature, just you know, the wind blowing through your hair or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Right. Yeah. That is not what I hear from these people. You know, I again, it's more like, hey, you know, you gotta

Skills Over Tools And Shopping

SPEAKER_03 12:40

go out and spend fifty dollars on this freaking rock so you can create a spell.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

You know, we're we're I we've even talked about this on the podcast. We've sat here and said, hey, you know what? You really don't need any of that crap when you're casting the spell.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

No. And you don't need any of that stuff for you know for ritual space either.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

So I'm wondering, how much longer are we actually going to have a community or anything if all we're doing is the lowest common denominator all the time?

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah, well, I mean, that's a good question. I mean, that's why I asked, well, you know, what what do you think the turning point should be to for people to actually delve into it? And I think it makes perfect sense that if you say if you think you're being stagnant and that you're not heading anywhere, that's the perfect time to delve deeper.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Because again, here's what in the world you have. You have this people. I I'll they'll watch a YouTuber for so long going over the same information for what maybe a couple of years, then they'll switch to another one doing the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Right. It's just presented a little differently.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

And it's just presented a little bit different. I mean, how does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 13:50

But it's still yeah, it doesn't. I mean, it's all it's all the same old information. Uh I see it all the time on on uh the Instagram reels and Facebook reels, and I don't spend a lot of time on TikTok, but it's all the same thing. They just those videos float around.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

I well, I'd say I can't I'm sorry, I've been out on TikTok. I can't stay there more than five or six minutes, and I'm like, I especially witch talk. I'm like, this is the ultimate in what in the world I'm talking about. Right, but everything's shallow, everything's well, yeah. That's exactly where I was going with that.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

That's exactly where I was going with that. They just it's all the same stuff. It's do the spell. Here's your ingredients. Do the spell. It's the same spell you saw 10 minutes ago. Different ingredients, different way of doing it. And it's all spell, spell, spell, spell, spell, and it's nothing, it's nothing of substance.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

And and then when you and when you do try to talk to them and you do start pointing out, hey, you know what happens if you keep on doing a left-hand turn, all you're doing is a left-hand turn.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

If you're and I I'm sorry to preach this out. I mean, I'm sorry, if you're sitting there and there's a choice between anything in craft where there's a choice between a left hand or a right hand

Balance Beyond Left And Right Paths

SPEAKER_03 15:10

or this or that, the obvious choice in craft the majority of the times is both. You do both. Balance is important here.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

It really is, and I guess that's the next part of this is how do we strike that balance? How do we how do we get to the point where we're accessing actual knowledge and putting it into realistic practice?

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Well, the first thing we gotta do is quit cutting people off. Just because people say stuff you don't like doesn't mean you're being attacked.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

True.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Doesn't mean you're doing it means, hey, we're questioning you. We're trying to actually get you to move up a level or two to answer these questions. If you're sitting there and you're preaching, okay, you should only follow the left-hand path to get this. Why? Where? Where's the logic here? Where's the logic in not using both hands? Why did because even asking the question, why do we even call them hands? Why do we call it left-hand, right-hand path? Could not the key word there be hands? How many hands do you need to work?

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Right. Well, and then too, and then to the the the right-hand and left-hand thing, I think a lot of that also has roots in Christianity. Like the other wise. Well, I was thinking back like to the early days of Christianity where you know left-handed people were seen as possessed by the devil. So the left-hand path is considered bad. Quote unquote bad.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

But it it's it it never was, it never has. All right. The in the left-hand path is supposed to be a more internal work, where the right hand path is actually more external work from yourself. But yeah. Where in craft do we have this concept of good and evil? That something's pure good or something's pure evil. Well, uh again, we don't have it. We don't believe in that.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Oh, that takes me down another path, and I'm it's uh that's probably Oh no, go, go, go.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

No, tell me.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Why do pagans I'm going to paganism to get away from Christianity? But I'm gonna hold on to these things good,

Dropping Christian Baggage And Dogma

SPEAKER_02 17:30

evil, evil, light, and dark. Why why are you still holding on to these things? And you're gonna sit there and talk about angelic numbers, you're gonna sit there and talk about you know biblical things, and you want to the key of Solomon. These are based in Christianity, you're not getting away from it.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Because Christian, because here, here, there's a big thing here, all right? Why don't they match up? Because Christians believe there are such things as supernatural. Pagans don't believe that. Nothing's greater than nature. Nature is a set fix of laws that cannot be broken by anyone.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Right. But I'm just saying it it makes no sense to me that you want to get away from Christianity, but yet when you come to paganism, you're you're exploring the more occult things, and those things are rooted in Christianity. Why?

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Why? Why? Well, again, it's it's like the whole entire thing. We keep on trying to say, okay, we're trying to get rid of dogma. What do you hear? Oh, you can't do that, spell, god forbid, that violates the threefold. What are y'all talking about?

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Karma's gonna get you. No, karma is the same thing as dogma in my book. It's it's right. So just don't.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

All right. And again, again, there's I'm not saying there's not actions to reactions to stuff you do, and you need to take those into account, but they're not consequences to your actions.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

No, and then they're gonna follow you into the next lifetime, or anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Again, we do have to accept responsibility for our actions, but what other people do based on that is not our problem. Exactly. At the end of the day, a cult and craft always teaches us to be individuals. And if we're going to be individuals, that means there's certain things we have to do. We have to accept responsibilities for our actions. That means nobody else's fault.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Right. Nobody else's but mine for anything that I do or anybody else's.

SPEAKER_03 19:32

There's no victimhood here. Nope. Nobody, nobody, no, no high-level craft person I know is going to feel pity for you because, oh, well, I I had a bad life. Your life's no worse than anybody else's.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Right. Your victimhood it's the result of your own actions.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Your choices and the way you reacted to things. Yep. All right. Do bad things happen to good people? Yes. Yes. Do good things happen to bad people? Yes. It happens. There's no rhyme or reason. There is no great So what are these people talking about? I don't make no sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

It makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Why why why can't we go a step farther? Why is the why is it the bulk of the pagan community only stays in the shallow end of the pole?

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

And I hate to be this way, and this is the part that's really gonna piss people off. If this is all y'all are gonna do, go back to being Christians. All right. I I'm sorry. To me, it's the most laziest freaking ri uh religion you can be a part of. You don't have to really do anything. No, you don't just show up for church.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yep, show up for church, Sunday school, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

You're not required to learn, you're not required to educate yourself, you're not required to dig into your own psyche. You're just required not to commit these sins or to follow the rules and the whole nine.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Right, and again, show up and tie it to your church.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

This is what I see most of these people trying to turn craft into. And and this is why I'm bothered by it because again, it's not about growth, it's not about learning yourself or how other people operate.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

It's all about stroking your ego and doing the least amount of work and the least amount of effort to not feel bad about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

And again, with that said, craft isn't really here to make you feel bad about yourself, where it's here to force you to look at yourself in an honest way.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. It's uh craft is designed, and I mean, it's uh part of its nature is to make you a stronger person, to be able to delve into the deeper concept. Concepts to explore all of those things and be able to stand on those principles.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

Well again, it's to have the courage to go out there and say what in the world you believe while ignoring what in the world everybody else says. Right. So what are we actually doing here? All of a sudden, all pagans, all pagans seem to be scared of being challenged in their beliefs.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah, I th I think what's happening is instead of um strengthening the ability to s to stand on what you believe in, people are being more encouraged to yield or to submit in an argument or whatever, because you know, heaven forbid we offend somebody or hurt somebody's

Stand Up For Beliefs And Grow

SPEAKER_02 22:50

feelings or well again.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

We're we're we're bringing in we're bringing in another Christian concept about turning the other cheek. We don't want conflict. It is better for me to sit here and bow out gracefully than to actually stand on my principles.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Right. But that's not what paganism is about.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

And when we discuss this the majority of the times, it always sounds like we would rather turn the cheek than actually stand up for what we believe in. I mean, I know it's the way we sort of discuss it, but it's always discussed in a negative context that you standing up for what you believe. Right. And I believe that some of this comes from Christianity. Because Christians are taught to do this, that they're supposed to stand up regardless of what anybody says that they believe this.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Right, but you should also be able to afford somebody else that same luxury.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Thank you. But it's not a bad thing if you do it yourself. But again, I I've heard these conversations in the pagan community, and yeah, standing up for yourself is always sort of downgraded to a certain extent, or or or talked about in a more of a negative Yeah, that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Is you know, everybody's it's it's more of an encouragement to again to yield, or um, I don't know of a better way to put that, but basically to stand down instead of stand up. Right. Because again, I mean again let's let's not hurt anybody's feelings. Let's not let's not encourage conversation on a deeper level.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Let's God forbid anybody challenge me on any of my beliefs. Oh god. I mean, welcome that. I'm I'm big for it. I do podcasts like this hoping to get these conversations, challenge me.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

This is what I don't understand, all right? And then yet when you go out and you do this to the they don't want to be challenged, they want to run, they want to hide, they want to go back to their 101 books. Can we and so I'm asking out in the back, can we get past the Wicca 101 crap already? Let's after 35 years.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Let's get our heads out of the sand.

SPEAKER_03 25:10

I think it's time to advance.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Let's get our heads out of the sand. It's it's it's time to move forward.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

All right. I mean, go back and listen to listen to what in the world these people go back and just look at the titles, look at the stuff that they're talking about. Don't not each episode, but and notice the pattern.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

I've sat there and watched, sat there and read one title after another, and sort of a description of each one. And it's always the same videos. Never anybody stressing something else. Make it make sense.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Well, and again, good on them for making content. Just can we do something more than just the basic stuff?

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Please. I mean, I understand new people are always coming in and they need to be educated and stuff, but it's not like those old videos went away.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

No, there's there's enough information out there for every beginner to get a good starting point.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Thank you. I mean, most of these podcasts, yes, you're looking through them, they have at least one playlist, beginner.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Or all their begin or what they called all their beginner videos. Okay, then why are you still making beginner videos? Right. If you've done them all, if you if you've already taught all the class, why?

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I don't know. Are you scared? Are you scared to produce any other type of content?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

We try our best to put out a little bit better challenging context of some of these concepts as much as we can without crossing certain lines, but you know, I I'm sorry, nobody actually listens to us, really. I mean, not really. You know, don't get me wrong. I love the audience we have and they're great people, but oh yeah, you you're with what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

I mean we don't have massive numbers, you know. I mean it it works for the folks who do listen, and we appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

You know, well, most people I see that are trying to do the stuff like we're doing, like Blaze and all this other stuff, which I'm going to give him a shout out because every Friday he's been putting out a video where he's talking with 30 other people, and these are actually these are actual interesting conversations. He has, yeah. These are the conversations I would love to see on more pagan podcasts. They're literally debating, they're they're having this discussion in front of us. This is what this growth, this is what this learning looks like, y'all. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

It's the perfect example, you know. Don't be afraid to be challenged.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

I love the fact that Blaze does this. I hope he they keep on doing this because it's been kind of nice. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

No, it's a great series.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

It is. So, with that said, this is what we're talking about. And and then when we do get the the the the our fluffy bunny, I don't know what to call them. They're the fluffy bunny people. We've always referred to them that way. I know I've just probably killed us in the ratings. Probably. But that's my point. That's why we call you fluffy bunny, because you can't get past the Wicca 101 stuff.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Right. Well, it's either the one-on-one stuff or you're you're too much into the new agey stuff, and it's again, it's nothing of substance. No, it's really not. You know, is all the new age stuff bad? No, but there's more depth to some of it than what you're putting out.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Right. Nobody wanted teachers, nobody wanted anything else. Nobody, everybody wanted to run amok and go off and do, okay, now you've done it. Now you got all these people following you. Now what are you gonna actually teach them?

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

When are you gonna put some meat and potatoes on there and quit worrying about the window pressing? I'm calling out our own community. When are we gonna see a step up on the podcast and stuff like this of people trying to push people to think more?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Well, and again, I I I've said it several times throughout this podcast, this episode. Don't be afraid to be challenged. That's that's how we learn, that's how we strengthen our belief systems, that's how we strengthen our you know, our religious practice by being challenged.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

Yes. I mean, I I hate to tell y'all this if y'all only knew how giddy I got when people actually do challenge me. I don't know. We're crying out loud, you're married to me, you love me, but you'll leave the room as soon as somebody challenges me, you're like, nope, never mind, I'm leaving. Well, not all the time. There's a two-hour conversation.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Not all the time. Sometimes it's interesting to hear, but um, yeah, if I feel like it's just gonna be a lot of uh bickering from one side or the other, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

I'll I'll yeah, no, just like like, okay, I've already heard this argument. This is the same rehash, this ain't gonna go nowhere. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

You know, and you know, and I don't mind it when people challenge me either. I've had some people that I work with and they find out and they challenge me on some of my some of my beliefs and my stances, and you know, we have a decent conversation about it, and sometimes they change my mind about things, and a lot of times they don't. Sometimes they don't, you know, and that's how we that's how we grow, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

With that said, I'm ready

Closing Thanks And Next Week

SPEAKER_03 30:40

for some coffee.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Uh yes, let's go get some coffee. Thanks for listening. Join us next week for another episode. Peg and Coffee Talk is brought to you by Life Temple and Seminary. Please visit us at Life Temple Seminary.org for more information, as well as links to our social media Facebook, Discord, Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

We travel down this trodden path a maze of stone and mire. Just hold my hand as we pass by a tea of blazing fires. And so it is the end of our days, so walk with me till morning breaks, and so it is the end of our days to walk with me till morning break.